Children of Narcissistic Parents

... We all have our own choices and abusing your own child that much is never excusable, and certainly not by blaming the other child for it!

Mayaness, I found out ... I wasn't ready, it opened a huge can of worms: but I'm happier now than I ever have been and it has been by learning that everything bad in the world is not my fault, that my mother really did do bad stuff and I'm not oversensitive. I would share, but be aware of the fallout it can cause.

Interesting viewpoint, Astrid - I have often wondered about the relationship my mother has with her little brother. By propping each other up and not wanting the other to "out" them... it makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

sending hugs to everyone after reading up on this i have discovered that im pretty sure my ex has ths disorder i feel a little better about what he put me through xoxox

Hey everyone,

Sorry guys my link was in violation of forum rules so got a spanking for it.
I have decided that seeing we're not really worthy of a PSG, that I would post my "whole of recent events" here including the email conversations. If people cannot see what DONM or others dealing with Narcs go through, the subtle manipulations, the word twistings, and the emotional blackmail then its never going to get better and we are ALWAYS going to look like a bunch of nutcases and ungrateful brats.

SO HERE IT IS ... this carries on from my vent thread about what happened at my Nan's 80th but picks up from when we announced our pregnancy to family and friends in 1 BULK group email.

I will warn you that it is long:

A few weeks go by and we hear nothing from her, we were pregnant and I sent around an email to family and friends letting them know about the pregnancy.

The first response was this "Congratultions we are very happy for you! and wishing you all good health and happiness"

Ok, I thought ... until she sent this next one:
Dear N,
I am so happy to hear your lovely news about the baby. however I feel the need to let you know( at much risk of you hating me even more) that I am so very sad actually I am heartbroken that you should choose to let me know in what appears to be a group email and that you feel that you could not or did not want to share such special news with your family in the way of a phone call.

I don't know how this can be resolved! it is obvious that we are not welcome in your house by you or C whenever we arrive, it is a dreadful feeling to know that you are barely being tolerated!

I really miss sharing in little S life with all the milestones she must be making. I am sad that she isn't able to get to know us as normally happens with Grandparents.

Whatever I have done to make you hate me so much only you can answer that !! I just don't know. Anyway you are now an adult,wife and Mother and am sure you will learn by my mistakes as a Mother so you won't do whatever I have done to you with Little S to cause you to feel as you do towards me.

You are always in my thoughts, I love you and am very proud of what you have achieved in your life. I worry about you and hope you have a trouble-free pregnancy! I am sorry we do not have the closeness that is normal between most Mothers and daughters and I don't understand why!! I will not intrude in your life by calling you(as I know I seem to irritate you) however if you wish to be in contact with me the door is always open to you and I am just a phone call away should you wish to chat!

The choice is yours to make.

I will accept your wishes

Love
Mum

Oh man was I LIVID ....... My response was this

Dear J,

One thing I have learnt from you is that every action not only has a reaction but there are also consequences to those actions. One thing I have learnt on my own is, in life you have a choice.

In the past you have stood in my lounge room and told me you would do things my way when it comes to S, the minute you get around Janet or Hannah or your family, you switch and it becomes all about you and what you want to do after all "What happens with Nan stays with Nan" right ?!

So let me tell you about recent choices that have been made because clearly you do not have the level of understanding one would expect you'd have.

You chose to introduce at least 7 new things into my childs diet without any thought, 4 of which can cause NASTY reactions. Icecream is no longer just milk sugar and water. It contains malt which can cause hives, it has artifical preservatives that contain Propylene Glycerol (yes its a petrol derived product) artifical flavours which contain Coal Tar (90% do) not to mention the fact that its a chemical ****tail, it is synthetic afterall. S has not yet been exposed to nuts, icecream is processed on machines that also produces nut products! There are other products that I won't bother going into these are the main offenders.


S was JUST 17 months old, not 3yrs, not 5yrs and NOT ready in OUR opinion to be introduced to crap. She has lived artifical flavour and artifical preservative free up until then because we choose for her to have a healthy diet. S could have had an intolerance to any of the ingredients mentioned and the way in which you fed it too her, if I had not caught you when I did ... we would have had NO IDEA what she had eaten should she had had a reaction.

You chose to sneakily feed her icecream, you know damn well we would not have approved of that. You asked our permission to get her some chips and we TOLD YOU we had food for her. You didn't ask, you just did it ... what happens with Nan stays with Nan ........ until Nan gets busted.

How do you expect us to trust that you will do the right thing by our children in future, if they are ever to stay in your care, when you have proven beyond any doubt, that you cannot be trusted to do the right thing by S even when we are there.

C, on his own accord, specifically asked you not to discuss the matter further ........ but you did. You disrespected his request.

C, on his own accord, specifically told you it was OK for you to come up and see S when you were down, I was sitting next to him when he said it. He told you to ring first so that I had a choice to stay or to go for a drive ....... YOU chose not to see S. We have not stopped you in any way shape or form bah one time that 2 dates were not available by us because we had other things on. So DO NOT get on some pity party about not seeing S .........That was your choice.

As for phone conversation, ok your clutching at straws but have you ever bothered to listen to the things you talk about? 90% of our conversations is about someone dying or getting sick or some bad thing thats happen ..... yep I don't want to listen to that crap.

Being welcome in our house ... yeah its not an easy thing, I told you a while ago in my bedroom that you have in the past betrayed my trust and I also told you it would take a while for that trust issue to be resolved. But I have you here for S not for me or C.

You have no respect for me, you have no respect for C, you have no respect for the way we are raising our family, and you have proven that you would rather prove a point "What happens with nan stays with nan" than do the right thing by us and S. Yep trust has now been blown well and truly out of the water! Everytime I heard that coming out of your mouth I cringed ...... C always assured me you wouldn't do the wrong thing by us or S or put her health at risk. But you did!

We STILL will allow you to come here to see S. Why should she suffer because you are irresponsible ? You will need to call before you want to come up.

I just don't know, you have no idea the hurt and the betrayal I have felt caused by you. The very thought that you would put S's health at risk KNOWING what I have been through angers me beyond rational thought.

N


Oh man was I peeved ... so angry I couldn't even bring myself to call her Mum.

all I got back from her was I am sorry you feel this way. Thank you for your response Mum

Still fuming I sent her : don't feel sorry for me J I don't need or want that from you .......

Then this came back

I am sad that you feel the need to be so hurtful N.

I have done nothing so bad to deserve your spitefulness and disrespect. That is the choice you have made, there is not point discussing it any further.

Would be nice if either you or C would at least be courteous and acknowledge that you have received a msg or card from us. But again I expect too much. You should be ashamed of yourself. The card she sent us was a computer typed envelope with no return address so it HAD to be opened to see who it was from. After asking her once before not to send cards she had sent us ANOTHER card for our deceased daughters 3rd birthday, it was NOT a birthday card but a card letting us know she was thinking of us ... the year before it was a text AND she text DH a message as well this year.

By now I had had enough, she was completely unable to see anything other than her own persective. I sent this as a last contact email:

the words "I am sorry" elude you, perhaps when you actually read the email and can rightfully acknowledge the mistakes you have made .... until then do not contact me.

Its sad that you have so little respect for C and myself, sadder still that you cannot see the unnecessary damage you are doing by not being able to recognise your own mistakes.

Yes we got the card and we would appreciate it in future to not recieve anymore. A text or email is fine we do not need or want anymore physical reminders of what is missing in our lives thank you.

This was her response her last effort in controlling a battle of wills:
Lets face it N you are so full of hatred and disrespect of me that there is nothing I could ever do that is right in your eyes. Saying sorry for whatever I have done to you is pointless as I have no right of reply to any of your accusations!
Yes I am sorry!!!! I am not the perfect Mother but I have alway tried my very best !!! sorry that I am not the woman you want to call Mum and I hope you become the perfect Mother to S and believe me you are not there yet by a long shot!! its all ahead of you girl!!

Followed closely was this email from my father who is CLinically depressed:

sorry nae but you are a bloody nut case.
I've been one , got help, and it did help !!
It has been observed by many people inside and outside the family that you really need help I don't feel that you are able empathize like others
I realize that you must be fuming steam by now, but i don't mean it to be nasty or vengeful
Just chat to your local Dr and say your father thinks you may have a pathological problem
I know you have been through quite a allot but this has been with you for many many years

Maybe i am just full of crap. Hope so !!

I do hope things workout for you

bye


Who needs enemies when you have family like this?!! As I said this is just one of the many many things I have had to deal with ... Maybe the problem really is me? Maybe my mother does not have a NDP ... maybe I really am a complete and utter nut case?

As long as she never ever mentions the actual transgression you are identifying (the food she's putting into DD's mouth) then there's is no problem, yeah? Then it's all in your head, because no-one will mention what it is you're upset about except you...yup, I get it.
My mum's behaviour around my sister's wedding was absolute classic NPD. So I'm not sure why I was surprised when she pulled a NM when DS was born. Not sure if many people are aware, or if I just had it in my baby buddies, but my mum didn't talk to me or see me for 10 days after DS was born. On the one had it was because she wanted to be at the birth. No, wait, not at the birth, just there right after. No, wait (give some time for goal post change again - very important especially as the event has already occurred and changing goal posts guarantees that I have failed because I can't change what happened in the past), not there right after, she just wanted to know that I was in labour. No, wait, that's not it either, it's because she wasn't the first to know he was born. No, wait, it's because she wanted to know that I was on my way to the FBC and about to have him. No, wait, it's because in her culture daughters have mothers with them...oh, no, that's coming back to the first point and that ended up not being the reason I was invalidating her feelings, and it's already bad enough that "no-one cares about [her] point of view".
She got the sadlies a couple of months before the due date because she was going on about "I hope you don't feel much pain, I will pray to the Lord that he doesn't make you feel much pain and that it goes quickly, but just take the pain killers and do what the doctors say". "Ummm, Ma, maybe you didn't hear but I'm doing Hypnobirthing and I really don't think I'm going to be in 'pain'", more platitudes about hoping I'm right and that the Lord meant for it to hurt yaddiyaddah but she hopes I'm right. Then I say that DP knows the HB and will help me and it's in the birth plan for the midwives to help me with the Hypno stuff and that's why it's really important for me to only have DP there with me, so that I don't have distractions from what I'm training myself to do. Uh-oh. Silence. I KNOW that silence. She carries on preparing dinner. In silence.
Fast forward to the week DS is due. We were getting on great and she had bought a few things and was she had already moved to East Gippsland, where she'd taken up a teaching job, and was commuting back to Melb on weekends to be with my dad (they have a property up there they bought and she thought she'd preempt the building plans by getting them up there sooner than my depressed dad was ready to - they never have built on it and bought a house instead, still have the 14 acres so she can punish my dad for never having done anything with it and it can constantly remind him of what he's too old and depressed to do now...) We plan to have lunch at my parents (at this stage they lived 5 minutes away) on the Sunday. The night before we go to a 2nd birthday party and on the way home have some hot Thai and go for a vigorous walk. In the wee hours the niggling starts and I assume it's BH, they are far enough apart and not incredibly regular. All morning this goes on, BiL comes to help DP do something out the back and DP tells him I'm 'sleeping in', fakes an eyeroll to put BiL off the scent and all is well - we had planned to tell no-one about being in labour, let alone going to the FBC. I called my mum at about 1 to tell her that I didn't think it wise to move far from home because I was having what I thought were Braxton Hicks contractions and I felt that I needed to be home.
WELL! She banged on about how I had made a committment and she was really looking forward to spending that time with me (she was on school holidays and had been hoping I'd tell her the due date - I gave her all three of them to put her off, because she knew we were ignoring the dates - so that she could 'plan' and take leave accordingly) and then went all martyr on my "ok, fine, don't come" and hung UP ON ME. Completely ignoring the hint, which was more than I was comfortable giving and DP didn't even want me to give her that heads up - he needn't have worried, because she didn't take it for what it was, anyway.
I 'BH'd" the rest of that day, swaying, rocking, heat packs, swiss ball, resting when I could and eating. About 12 hours after it started the feelings took off with a bang - regular 10 mins and we were outside walking up the street (very treed and hilly up in the Dandenongs), when just about lunchtime, my dad arrived. He would only have heard from my mum that we weren't coming to lunch and at that time he was dropping in often to see us and our relationship was functioning well. He saw what state I was in and felt bad that he'd interrupted, so he left soon after. I was so happy to have seen him and had no idea that my mum had stopped communicating with him because she'd withdrawn after the lunch cancellation. He now knew why I had cancelled.
Anyway, about 4 hours later, against my deeper wishes, we left for the FBC and 45 mins after that DS arrived. I showered, got into bed with DS and then DP went to the car to get the phones, the camera, the bags (we'd overlooked the plan to labour completely at home and had packed bags for labouring in the FBC...only to get there in such a hurry that he only had time to park the car and run!). He called my mum first. Straight to voicemail. Tried again, didn't leave a message - who leaves that for a message when it's your MiL? So, he called the home phone, no answer. He called my sister in NZ and told her. He made other phone calls to his family. Meanwhile, my sis was so excited she called my parents and my dad answered, he was just happy to hear the news. So, he told my mum. Brave move, because she was being really noxious to him when she WAS talking to him! So, he ummed and ahhed on the phone to me for a couple of hours before saying he'd come to visit me, alone. My poor dad had to break it to me that my mum didn't want to see us and he wasn't sure why, particularly because she wasn't talking to him and when she was it was to bark at him. He got me on the phone to her, she was reluctant and acted like she was doing ME the favour. She was soooo dismissive and said she was too hurt and her feelings had been invalidated and other stuff I forget and don't care about any more.
My sister arrived 4 days later and was over the moon about having a nephew. Eventually, we worked on a plan of action to get my mum over. Can you believe that?? My newborn and I in babymoon and we're working on how to get my mum to come over?
Anyway, it took 10 days for the first visit, and another couple of years of guilt tripping (HER of ME) before she came out with "maybe we need to see a counsellor about this, because we have to move on from it. I have forgiven the past but you can't let it go and we need to heal, it's not healthy"...you may pick up your jaw now.
DD's birth was a little better, but she still chose to gnaw on a special bone and this time we left her to it.
THIS is classic NM. It took the birth of DS for me to realise once and for all that IT WASN'T ME. Family friends couldn't believe it and couldn't relate to how she blew out over my decision to birth without her. They still don't know she's NPD, so of course it is beyond their comprehension.
I'm telling this story because I had already talked about it at the time here on BB. There's other stuff I still wont' go into here. I got the schlapping, too, for posting a link to the DONM site. It's a site SOLELY for discussing relationships with NMs by daughters, there is no advertising, no chit chat, no other demographic. Ladies of middle age, young women, elderly all on there realising huge things about their lives. So, that's where I'll keep the other stuff now - the stuff that I recall that belongs in a group of people who know what to call it.
Sort of shaking my head that the 'metaphysical' people get their own group (not saying they shouldn't, either!), and CONP can't. So be it. Mine is an example of the kinds of behaviour that directly impacts what should be happy times in your life and are sabotaged by the person who should be closest to you and most wanting to protect your happiness. Not a NM.

Mayaness - WOW - I did have a giggle about her not being "told" when you go into labour. NM was really put out when I told her we wouldn't be telling ANYONE when I went into labour with DD. She thought it was selfish of me to not tell my family. Even when I told her that my conx started at 5min apart lasting over a minute she STILL thought I should have called her to tell her "it was all happening" ........ Even when I asked her WHO was suppose to be calling her A) her labouring daughter who was freaking out , or B) her SIL who was busy driving and supporting his wife ??

You almost need to just sit back and laugh and HOW important they must need to feel,afterall they ARE the centre of the known Universe!

Mayaness - the whole labour thing seems to be a big bug bear with Narc Mums.

NaeNAe - boy what a drama. Makes me so glad mum never used computer, I could not have dealt with emails from her. There is a letter she sent to my sister, but I asked her to destroy it and not give it to me.

Since we are in a sharing mode, here is the story of the lead up to my wedding (NaeNae has already seen it):

When we got engaged it was my birthday. I had no exact plans at to who to tell first, other than parents, sister then everyone esle. Well my dad called first, so of course he was told first. Then either I called mum or she did (can't remember). Told her the news, she cracked it has dad found out first (as if I would accept his phone call, not tell him, then call him back after mum knew). No congrats, just I had to call my brother and his wife(the now ex). Of course I was going to call them, but wanted my parents to know first. (How it turned into being about my bro and his wife, I don't know, possibly due to ex-sil being a narc herself). At the time my sister was not even happy with the engagement, but looking back now I can see it was due to dread of dealing with mum over it all.

Break for a year, then we start organising the wedding. We set the date for a year later, I tell her so she can save and organise things. She lived in Qld, we lived in Vic, but were having the wedding in Tas where most of family and friends were. I had my sister offering money for us to elope so she would not have to deal with mum. I had all family asking to NOT be sat at her table for the reception. We decided to have an informal buffet to avoid the whole seating issue, not just due to her, but we hate seating arrangements. She cracked it over that, as she was MOB and had to sit at the bridal table!

Then she wanted to make the cake. A fruit cake. I am not a fan of traditional wedding cakes and had lived through her baking my sisters. So big fat no, I was having chocolate. Ok, more drama, she wanted to do something for the wedding. After lots of rubbish we finally agreed that she could do the sugared almonds for guests (totally out of style for the wedding, but hey thought it would shut her up). She seemed to forget about that and moved onto other things. Carried on about how left out of the other weddings she had felt. So I decided that I would surprise her by getting her hair and makeup done on the day. She has bad hair and always felt self concious of it on big days, my Tas hairdresser was/is on the best in Aus, so he could have done wonders with it (see I am not a horrid daughter, I do think of her)

Bridesmaid drama. Told her who I had asked. She was ok, then a week later calling up very angry "WHO is this Caroline, I don't know her blah, blah". Did not matter in the end as she could not make it, so we chose to have no bridal party to save further drama of who I would pick. Walking down the aisle drama, of course she thought she should, not my father. Dress drama, she had to know what it looked like, but I was telling no-one, but she thought I was singling her out. Vow drama, we had to use the Apache love poem like my step brother, err no, having a medieval inspired ceremony with a celebrant helping write personal vows based on celtic ceremonies.

The travel drama was the worst. She demanded we pay to fly her down from Qld. Expensive back then, as this was before fare discounting. I refused. We were doing our whole wedding, plus honeymoon for $10,000, we had saved half and got a loan for the rest. She had helped with other weddings and she had good notice, so as far as I was concerned she could pay for herself. She demanded I uninvite guests so we could afford to pay for her. That would have meant dumping half our guest list. Then she wanted my father to pay. He was on a pension and they had split when I was 3. My sister offered her frequent flyer points, everyone wins, no-one is out of pocket. Mum conveniently forgot that and kept calling my father to pay, stressing him out.

It all got so much and after one night of me being in tears yet again, DH called her up and told her to "shut the f up or not come", she chose not to come. I did live in fear on my wedding day that she had flown down and was going to crash the wedding.

Perfect example of no matter what you do, it is never enough, they just want more. She actually said to me "This is the last chance I have to have a wedding my way!" FFS, the woman was married twice, you think she would have got one of them right!

Removed for privacy :)

Removed for privacy :)

WRT this thread - I just logged out and realised that this thread can be viewed without logging it at all. Does anyone know if it is possible to lock this thread so that only members can see it but not in the plantinum section (like the bellybuddy threads)? That should stop search engines picking it up and give us a bit more privacy. I would still love a PSG where we can all post a thread with our own stories in full. There is so much I haven't told of mine just because it is hard for people who haven't experienced it to understand ...

Anyway, which mod do I PM about the possibility of having the privacy setting changed?

Friggin hell - bible quotes are the best, aren't they?
I'm actually sensing a common theme amongst a few of us...
And, really, all these 'communications' to labour these points and make us out to be the baddies...doesn't that say it all? Really, doesn't it? Maybe not to people who have no experience with narcs... but I don't even have to read very closely - just skimming has me nodding and knowing kind of what they're getting at.
I just responded in the DONM site and a quote came to my head that encapsulates the moment my NM goes off on her narc tangent...and it's the moment I tantamount to say (by my actions or responses, or lack thereof) "You have no power over me" (cue the David Bowie music!!). Guaranteed to start another non-communication episode!

More private thread would be appreciated by me too!

Mayaness, I prefer starting with "through dangers unknown and hardships unnumbered" under my breath - she has no idea what I'm going on about. Safer that way.

Reading everyone's e-mails jogged something in my memory too.

...

And every single point where she may conceed that she was doing something wrong "it's because" or "you have to understand" or "I'm sorry if that hurt you" - yet very little has changed, save for me being more guarded with her. Above, she's saying she doesn't remember most of my young life because she was more concerned about keeping up appearances.

Ah, got to love the multiple exclamation marks too!!! Makes everything seem more important and exciting!!! Just like me!!!

ETA- out of interest, can you call your mother "mum" and how do you feel about being called "mum"? Cos I cannot call myself "mum" and I tend to refer to my mother by her first name, or call her Nanna when DS is around.

DH calls his mum by her first name if he ever refers to her. I think she spent so many years referring to herself by her relationship, he wants to take that away from her by just referring to her by her name.

Is it just me or do NM's totally lack empathy, I'm sick/hurt/injured "who cares" "what do you want me to do about it" yet her as a nurse seems to care about everyone!

I'm so sick of going into her work and hearing people gush over how nice she is and how lucky I am, blah blah blah.

And the next time she refers to herself as "mum" when talking to my kids or about my kids I'm going to SNAP.

September holidays are fast approaching and I still have no idea how I'm going to stop DS from going down there alone, she wont shut up about it.

TFB - I refer to my mother as Nan as well, I avoid calling her mum as much as I can.

I'm so sick of telling the kids no they can't have something and she gives it to them anyway, or if I refuse to buy them something she buys it. So has no respect for the fact I'm "mum" to them and what I say goes, not HER.

DS has figured out that if I say he can't have something (it's not that often, but I draw the line at Ben 10 merchandise!) he looks at me now and says he'll ask "Ma" (that's what he calls her because I do). He'll even ask her whilst looking straight at me. So I have to jump in and explain to both of them why he can't have it and why I haven't a)already got it or b)asked my mum to get it for him. But he knows, she has set some dodgy ground rules. And in NZ when we had that awful time with her she used it against me.

She has to "infect" everything, the kids have things they need to do every day to earn their pocket money but she has to give them "extra" pocket money. Maybe I am over reacting but I'm sick of everything I/we do with the kids having to have something to do with her as well.

Does that even make sense?

too much identifying info to keep anything from this one, sorry!

Complete sense TMS. My MIL was like that with my nieces and nephews. I couldn't tolerate going through what my BIL & SIL went through with her once they had kids which is partly why we cut contact after DD1 was born. MIL had to be the centre of the kids' worlds (unless she got a better offer). But she constantly took over roles of being the mum with each of my neices and nephews.

She came for one visit when DD1 was born - we didn't want them coming to see me in hospital so we organised for a very short visit to our home to meet DD1 (not really preferable but in those early days with a bub there was nowhere else for them to meet her). DD1 was less than 48 hours old when PIL came to visit. DD1 started crying while PIL were there. MIL refused to give her back to me and tried to settle her. We didn't want to physically grab DD1 off MIL but she refused to hand her over. DH eventually did have to take DD1 off MIL because she was SCREAMING (she was hungry and ready for a feed ... I tried to avoid her needing to eat while PIL were there, but babies need to eat when babies need to eat). MIL was never going to be able to settle her but took huge offence that we only *let* her try for a few mins. I cried for a few hours after that visit. I couldn't cope. My baby was only two days old and I already felt like MIL was trying to push me out of DD1's life to make herself more important.

It is really sad but those incidences with MIL in the early days of DD1's life really affected the way that I bonded with DD1. Because I felt like PIL didn't see me as a significant part of my own child's life, just a vessel to carry her, I felt like they believed that they owned her. When DH's grandad died, they listed him and DD1 in the obituary notices in the paper, but not me (or any of their other children in law for that matter). Same deal when DH's grandmother died last year. I didn't think it would affect me, but all my kids names and my DH's name were all there together, and mine wasn't. I know in the scheme of things it doesn't mean much, but it was their way of leaving me out of my own family. Again it was all their children-in-law that weren't mentioned though their children and grandchildren were. But still, it isn't nice.

Anyway, back to DD1. MIL changed DD1's name in the weeks after she was born to DD1's middle name. And she got some morons on board who would come up and call DD1 by her middle name. We explained over and over about it not being DD1's name and they knew but they still did it. DH ended up having to be quite rude to get the message through and those people stopped talking to us after that. No great loss at all.

They also treated my pregnancy like they had every right to know every detail to ensure that their grandchild was safe in my body. They weren't interested in me just that I was providing a healthy incubator for their grandchild. All of that stuff and then DD1 born looking a bit like MIL, meant I had a really hard time bonding with her. For about two years I felt like DD1 wasn't really mine and at any moment she was going to be taken away from me. I don't feel like that anymore, but it was a long time of not feeling like she was my baby.

I think that's why I have such a hang up about the fact that she never calls our kids 'your children' but always 'our grandchildren' because she is possessive. She does not acknowledge my relationship to my own kids at all. She acts like she own them - I don't even think I own them let alone her. She is a real matriach. Blergh!

The other thing TMS, about your mother and your weight. MIL's thing is her skin. She thinks she has beautiful skin. DH had acne as a teenager and his mother could never shut up about it. She even bought him some skin cream that was made for dogs for him to rub on his face to try and make it better. He feels very resentful towards her for that. I think she intentionally did stuff too to try and make him unattractive so that she wouldn't have to *share* him (when we got married she made a point of letting me know that she was *sharing* him with me :rolleyes:). She bought him glasses when he was 12 - he is a fulltime glasses wearer - and though she stopped him from having a job (she needed him because she acted like an invalid with her imaginary illness), she refused to buy him more. When I met him, he was a 17 year wearing the dodgiest ugliest pair of glasses I have even seen - I wouldn't have noticed except that the first time I met him, she made a point of saying to him that she thought I was too shallow to like him with his glasses and if I didn't like him, then I wasn't worth the time. She also dressed him in clothes 3 sizes too large ... she told him that he was an XL size and bought him oversized baggy clothes and told him that his hair was black and couldn't be cut in anyway except for this certain way she always told the hairdresser how to cut it.

Once we were married, he finally realised that he wasn't actually an XL and that he could ask the hair dresser to do something different with his hair. He also went and got new glasses. She was soooo mad that *I* had changed him. He had a lot more confidence after that and the funny thing is that I didn't do anything. He did most of it himself.

TFB - The "other girl" in our house was my own cousin. My Aunty left her husband and my cousin HATED her for it so she *had* to come live with us, it drove me insane. Any time I wanted my mother attention, she had to have it as well, always it was "why can't you be more like K" even though my cousin was a nasty little ***** to me, her mother, her bother and everyone else expect my mum! It was at the worst time as well, I was a teenager starting to see boys, mum had just told me to basically raise myself because she had given up *everything* for me and now it was time for her, I was struggling at school, was lonely....it was awful.

And always "look at my wonderful daughter" while out then "I hate you, I love you because I have to but I don't like you" behind closed doors.

She always gets so hung up on the first 15'ish years of my life that she gave herself to me, gave up everything for me and during an argument I'm said many times that I never asked her to give up anything for me and she says "no but I did it because thats what needed to be done, I gave it all up for you" and its this never ending cycle of "owning" something to her, I've given her close to $50k from my inheritance but I still owe her anytime I have money. Even when talking about winning the lotto she says "I should give her xyz of my winnings" (usually 25-30%) but if she wins she'll buy me a house, not give me money for a house BUY me a house...um no thanks!

JM - She did the clothes thing to me too, always putting me in clothes that were too big and interestingly DH mum always did the same to him, I've always wondered if she's N too. When I met him he was wearing XL clothes but could barely fit into a small, buzz cut for hair because his mum thought his sister should cut his hair. They always go on about how much he's changed since meeting me, yeah he's his own person and not one of your minions.

I've never really "evaluated" her for being N, I just through them in the too hard basket and try to have nothing to do with them.

I always thought buying clothes for children to "grow into" was normal, much as I hated it. I did laugh when my mother bought me clothes 2 sizes too large as an adult, but I "grew into" them at 9m pg so I suppose I was grateful.

And ugh the mum cuts: when she decided to stop that she used to get her hairdresser to give me dreadful perms because they "suited" me. And prep hairdressers in advance not to cut my hair short no matter what I said. Moved out and within a year had it all 1" long. OK it was hideous but I loved the freedom!

I won't go into my teen years: I have closed that door and marked it "do not enter - too painful". And I'm so much the happier for it.

Have you ever felt like they are the ok ones and it might be you with the problem?

these are my top 2, the most recent and the real biggie.

went out today, befor even geting to the shop, i just wanted to be out of the car! cut off not sure how many people, every one doing something "wwrong" on the road is either a "(explicet) foriener" or "were you get your (ecplicet) licence from" oh, not to mention the 2 red lights on the freeway we near went threw:o no wonder i prefer the bus and walking!
Then there was "the phone call" our phones rang almost the same time, df rang me and fil rang her, to tell us fil had his car impounded for 30 days, went sideways infront of a cop, moron, anyhow, we get off the phones and she starts on about how fil just lost his car and its all her fault, he just rang to abuse her over it....
Ahh, i was on the phone to Df who was in the same room as fil, (who is a loud mouth by the way) he did not once say it was her fault. but no, i wasnt on the call so i dont know what was said (even though i could hear both convos like we were all in the one room) i didnt hear the end of it untill we said goodbye. oh unless you count the incident with the "foriener who cut infront at the register"

One that is just bloody tops starts last month and finnished(found out) today....
Ds2 stayed aty nannies the night befor his birthday last month, so i could make his car cake, and was to be returned home no later then 11pm...
i get a call in the morning, 10ish "leaving soon" then arround 1/2ish, get another call, this time "got car troubles, going to get a jump start"
in the end i sent Df to pick him up, so we could spend dinner at least with our boy, Df gets roped into driving arround on a sunday arvo, trying to find a car batery.
my boy didnt get home untill 7 that night, had a very late dinner from the fish'n'chip shop, while daddy tried to fix nannys car.
The best bit about this one is, Df needs to use my car, but my battery is buggered, he decided to try his luck and put mums batery in, (the one that was buggered, couldnt even be jumpstarted, nothing) what do you know... it works 100percent:o
As Df was leaving for work this morning, I joked about how lucky he was that sitting for a bit gave life back to the battery he couldnt get started, only to be informed he was not alowed to try start it just continualy told "someone" had already looked at it and it was buggered :o she preferd to buy a new batery and fuses then have my boy home for his birthday dinner.

TFB - The thing that gets me about my teen's is the fact she remembers it one way and I remember it completely different. I *know* there were things she said/did but she flat out denies it.

I really wish I could remember my childhood though, from about 13 and under I have to rely on her and other family members accounts because I can't remember anything. It's really hard, I don't know what to believe but maybe theres a good reason I don't remember it.

My dad committed suicide just before I turned 21, I'm shocked how she has tried to twist and manipulate the relationship I had with him. Anytime I have something positive to say about him she has something bad to say. Even when it came to the funeral it was all about her, mind you they had been divorced since I was 3 and she wanted nothing to do with him but "how could he do this to her"....she had to be the person in the middle between my grandmother (dads mum) and myself and completely twisted everything and its strained that relationship as well now.

And then when her parents died, who were more like my parents than she ever was her true colours came out. She flat lied to me and said she was too broke to go to my grandfathers funeral, I found out from an aunty she did go and she took her boyfriend! We were completely broke at the time, I'm still so angry with her for that.

And twice now she's been given things to pass onto me, a dresser from my Aunty was meant to come to me but no, she had to give it to DD and now things nan left for me she's keeping until DD is old enough for them! DD would get them from me when she's old enough, which what these people intended but no, she has to cut me out.

Luckily her mind is going because I managed to convince her she had already given me my Aunties, who was to be my godmother but died, diamond earrings. Oh and this all goes back to my cousin who lived with us for a while, these earrings are the ones I wanted to wear on my wedding day but she "forgot" and left them with my cousin in another state for her wedding. I just took them, not something I'm proud of but I'm sick of these games.

No news on us having a sticky in the psg? Was wondering if we start a Facebook group so we can chat in private?

I have been accepted to the group, maybe we need to make our own thread there too?

I thought this thread would be moving too?

That's what I thought, too. Still no sticky? I checked a couple of days ago and there wasn't anything.

if a facebook group is started, can someone pm me a link? if thats ok.

If you start a new thread in the F&R PSG then report it, one of the mods will be able to sticky it for you.

does anyone know what is going on ? im not a member of the family psg so can't access the page at all to see if there has been a section made for us.......

Maybe this thread could be moved in there to start us off - how do we ask for that to happen? Report it?

Had a nasty, nasty dream last night my mother joined this website with the sole intent of whinging about how dreadful her adult daughters were and ... - I don't want her to find this thread! (If it can't be moved I'll go back and edit my posts.)

Need a vent.
MIL decides that she hates my stuffed mushrooms (Im ex-cook, and have an AWARD for this recipe, plus shes eaten them 100 times before) so pushes her plate away, and 'has to rest' on the kitchen table.
FIL starts fussing and gets up and makes her toast which miraculously made her feel better.
I HATE how they enable her tantrums!

Oh gawd, Trishalishous! Melodramatic or what! I'll eat your mushrooms! Yum!

I just wanted to pop in and say that I feel a bit weird joining the fb group. We haven't seen MIL in five years now. And other than a few revolting attempts to gain access to DD, we don't hear anything either. I don't want to open the floodgates for me again, ITMS. I'm in a good headspace in regards to all of that, DH is too. And I feel like I'd be snooping on you guys.

But I'm here if anyone wants to PM me for questions or anything about dealing with the severed relationship, the aftermath and all of that. Thinking of you all and I hope you find a clear path :hug:

Moderator Message »
We will not be starting any new Private Support Groups. If anyone wishes to join the Family and Relationship PSG and start a new thread in there you are welcome just as long as you meet the posting requirements for the F&R PSG. We will not be moving this thread into the PSG as not all participants will have access to the PSG, so won't be able to contribute in this thread if it is moved.

OK, I've taken out the identifying things from my posts, but left general stuff up. Will start a thread in the PSG and see how many of us respond...

eta - Trish, your mushrooms sound yummy. Are you willing to share your award-winning recipe? I fancy trying a new stuffed mushrom recpie.

Flat/field mushrooms in a casserole dish
pour Chicken stock all over mushrooms

blend sundried tomatoes, olives, roasted capsicum(I use yellow cos its sweeter) mixed dried herbs, a tiny bit of fresh garlic/chili
mix with ricotta cheese and breadcrumbs to 'firm' the mixture
spoon the mixture onto the mushrooms and grate cheese on top
then bake :)
You can add bacon too, but fry it with the capsicums first if so :)

Her latest rant is how we should visit more (we live 4 hours - 11 on a bad day - away)

Sounds delicious! Can't wait to try.

I get guilt trips on how my extended family never see us. We're 5-10 hours away too. There's a reason for that! Have you tried the "we'd love to have you visit more" tack? That usually shuts my mother up because it would mean doing something for her family rather than strangers in the village she vaguely knows but likes their praise.

Hi there!
A friend told me about this forum and in particular this thread, so I've signed up here in the hope to get some understanding help and support with dealing with my parents.
Basically I have parents who I suspect have NPD, no diagnosis has ever been made but they very much fit the criteria and quite frankly I am struggling with them. I know my mother was seeing a psychiatrist because of her 'breakdown' but I don't doubt that my mother would have been able to manipulate the psychiatrist too, she is quite good at that - as most narcissists are.
I'm a partnered mum to two gorgeous girls, and I will do anything to protect my children from harm as any parent would.

My battery is flat, I look forward to coming back and writing more about my situation and hopefully getting some clarity and what not. It's not a easy, nor fun thing to deal with.

Hi MissEm. Sorry that you are dealing with so many issues with your parents. It really isn't easy.

If you haven't already, check out the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website. You will find lots of useful info on there. There are also a few blogs and other things around the place with heaps of info that might help you to understand it all a bit more and help you feel less alone. If you are interested in those links I can post them here for you also.

Welcome to BB! I hope you can find the support you need here. Everyone is super friendly so it really is a great place to be :)

Oh wow! Thank you so much for that link, Just Me, I will have a better look once the girls go to bed!

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How do you join the family and relationships PSG? Its not in the groups list in the control panel ...

Edit: Is it the family crisis permissions group?

I think you have to request permission from a mod to join, RumpledElf. I'm not sure though, someone should be able to confirm that though. Hope your DH is okay :hug:

We're being stalked. Sigh. It's been five years. We busted her leaving our estate last week when we were coming home. DD wasn't with us. DH pulled into the estate and swore and told me she was there. Nobody else lives near us, she has no reason to be here. So now we have our security camera back up and recording. I hate living like this. But he needs to know if she's been here. I understand that. But it sucks that I couldn't even smuggle in a father's day gift for him.