How far would you go?

[Phteven]

Since you've put piano into it - would you be prepared to move your family to a differant city if your daughter was a child prodigy?
My cousin wanted to learn piano when he was 3 because his older brothers were - my aunt wouldn't let him because his hands couldn't reach far enough but that didn't stop him from climbing up and giving it his best shot.

Do you think it'd be accurate to say that it'd take a pretty specially devoted kid to be an elite athlete without really motivated and driven parents?
I haven't heard athletes talk about their parents much in interviews, other than to say they have been 'supportive'. So I really am clueless and would be interested to know how usual it is that a kid becomes an elite athlete if their parents aren't at least part of the driving force behind it?

I guess that my take on the sitaution is that no-one will become an elite athlete/child prodigy without some of their own drive. If you don't want it you won't achieve it but if your parents don't give you the oppurtunity you'll never go there. Personally I'm teaching my children the sports I enjoy. Not so they can be world beaters but so that we can do them as a family and because now Yasin is getting older it's either teach him (and later Imran) or give them up. I assume that most parents are similar and teach their children the sports they are familiar with which is why so many Olympic gymnasts seem to have gymnast parents and so on.

[Trillian]

I wonder though, how much of it is just an extension of what the parents want for the child. Like if the child shows excellent talent for a sport, and the parents really push it, taking them to the best coaches and all the rest, only for the child to then say they want to stop doing it after a few years - how crushed would the parents be? Would they be devastated or would they be able to just say "ok, I'm cool with that" after all the time, effort and most importantly money, they have invested in this child.

[krysalyss]

Is it up to us as parents to choose for our children the paths that they will follow?

No it isn't but it is our job to guide them in the principles that we think are right (getting OT). But we are talking about big extremes here. We aren't talking about letting our son or daughter participate in a sport. We are talking about separating family members and putting our child through extreme training regimes. Is splitting up the family for long periods worth what is ultimately a career in entertainment? I personally don't think so. What will they have to fall back on if they don't make it, or when their career is over (as many sports are short-lived careers)?
But I would be more inclined to reconsider if the activity had more of a altruistic effect. But I don't think I would personally consider a long-term separation.

[Phteven]

I guess that in some cases it is pushy parents (there are some shockers out there) but in asking this question I was more curious about how those of us who aren't so extreme would cope if faced with a child prodigy or athletically talented child with a massive drive to suceed. So it's not a matter of putting our children through full-on training but them choosing to do it themselves.

[Lulu]

Well I did ok by myself. I walked everywhere to get to the comps, I trained 5 days a week off my own bat (), hassled people for a game, spent all school holidays assisting my coach, filled in at the seniors level etc.

I also found perverse pleasure in finding ways to violate the dress code, laughed till I cried if I missed a shot and in one memorable incident played sitting down from the base line until my partner took back back the nasty thing he said about Jon Bon Jovi.

When I was blocked from progressing (by my own club) I promptly enrolled at another and whipped my own clubs butt in the finals whilst violating the dress code.

All because I was very very very driven to wipe people off the court...

At the end of the day I chucked it in because it wasn't fun anymore. It all got too serious and I can't see why you can't laugh at an elite level.

[Hollybolly]

This is a really interesting thread topic, because at the moment, DH & I are really banging our heads against a brick wall with his parents about this issue... bit of background..

And it will be loooong, so my apologies in advance

DH is one of 5 kids, big, in your face, over the top, typical Italian family
Everyone knows everything about each other, and everyone almost always knows it before I do - even if its about me

All of the kids have had to work from a young age in PIL's business - happens to be hospitality, so in result, they are all in that field now, as thats what they all know.
DH never wanted to cook, but got sucked into the tornado of family tradition, and so it is what it is.

The youngest in his family will be 16yrs at Christmas -his brother.
Because there's a big age gap between him and the other 4 kids (15yrs between him and the next youngest, she's 30), he has spent the larger part of his childhood as an 'only child' - the rest of us live a few hundred kms away.

He has always been determined that he never, ever wants to work in hospitality - and is an exceptional soccer player.
Last year, a 'scout' found him watching a soccer game on a field in the middle of nowhere (near where they live) and approached his Dad about playing soccer in a really high standard team near us on the Central Coast.

Nothing much came of it, as DH's parents were not ready to have to deal with it...

Anyway, time passed, and he was found by a few others that noticed him - he was invited to try out for the junior squad for the Newcastle Jets (In the A League) - but had a terrible injury at the time and missed out

Representatives from the Central Coast Mariners saw him afterwards, and he was invited to join a team down here that is the elite team from where many of the Mariners have been chosen - a huge, huge opportunity.
The coach of that team has not given up, hounded & wore down DH's Dad (his brother was wanting it more than you could imagine)
Ideally, the coach wanted him to move down here, as their training schedule is full on - DH's parents wouldn't allow it, as they still only see this as 'a dream' - nothing will come of it

The coach was desperate not to waste the opportunity, and so agreed to have him here as much as PIL would allow.
Its been an absolute s@#tfight all year with unorganisation, but he has made an impact enough, because when he was staying with us for the whole 2 weeks of last school holidays, a scout from Tottenham Football Club (yes, Tottenham in the UK!) - saw him, enquired about him, and asked to see him!
He's interested, but the Football federation in Australia won't allow him to play any higher up yet because of his age.

So, getting back to this thread (sorry to babble on ) - obviously, the boy has the talent.. and trust me, he wants it... despite his parents lack of encouragement or enthusiasm.
He is finishing school in a few months time (yr 10) - his plans were to move in with us (training is about 10 mins from where we live) - and get a job or apprenticeship, as he is not interested at all in continuing at school.

PIL will not allow this, they have said he has spent too long being too spoilt like an only child, and is unappreciative , so therefore not worthy.
They have told him he is not allowed to leave home until he's 18, and if he leaves, they won't support him with anything, financially, but most especially with his soccer.
MIL told me last visit, that she expects him to leave home & ask to move in with us... she has also told me she expects our support, and that we are not, under any circumstances, to support him in any way
My reply was basically , so if he turns up on our door step wanting to live with us, I have to close the door in his face? Her answer was Yes, FIL & I have done enough for you over the years, you can do this for us

Needless to say, DH & I will do EVERYTHING we can in our support for this for him - what an amazing opportunity for a boy from the sticks where usually noone would ever ever find his talent.

DH & I live here, he's old enough to leave home (especially when he's moving into a family situation with his older brother & his family!)

DH & I cannot believe that his parents want so little, and are so un supportive of his dreams... - For him, and for any of our children, I will do whatever I possibly can to give them every dream & the life that they wish for themselves.
Is this not what we have children for? I just don't get it with DH's parents, its unbelievable.

I know I carried on a little, but needed to explain to show how much I think personally, its important to support what your children want.(Obviously in reason - you can't do the impossible, but if its do-able then I think we should give it a go)
In my personal opinion, I believe that creating every opportunity possible for them to do that is my duty as a parent (or as a SIL in our case at the moment!!)

[SammyRo]

I think if the child wanted to go on and see how far they could achieve at that elite level, then I would be all for supporting them. However, I don't think I would split the family. Either we would find a way that we could all go, or find the next best alternative where we are, until the child was a certain age that I wouldn't mind them going on their own, say at 16. Also, I don't think until children get to say their mid teens that sport should be taken so seriously. Its fun and should be fun for them to do, so that they love doing sport and will take it into their adult lives.
My dh is a hockey player and our weekends often revolve around that - we'll let the kids try hockey but if they don't want to play hockey and rather do another sport than thats fine, we'll encourage them elsewhere. the only thing my dh won't let them do is play for a diff hockey team! lol

I think the reason that alot of athletes compete in the same sport their parents did is often just due to the fact that they are exposed to that sport from such an early age. My dd isn't able to grasp things in her hands yet, but dh is intent on her getting her first hockey stick by the time she's one! I coached under 9 hockey for a year and coached the daughter of a bloke who played with my dh, and his wife also palyed - she was 6 at the time, she is now 9 and has been selected for the u13 state side. I don't think its being driven by the parents, its just that is always been a thing in her life and so i suppose maybe natural that she would want to take it up, which i'm guessing is the same with many big sporting families.

[Lulu]

HUH?

Italian family......not want.......son play soccer.......

[Hollybolly]

HUH?

Italian family......not want.......son play soccer.......

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! What Italian Dad doesn't want his bambino to become the next Francesco Totti

You have to wonder, huh??!!!!!!
It blows my mind, because this family absoluetly BREATHES soccer (sorry, football!!).. all of them do - even I would give the average man a run for his money with my knowledge after being part of this family for the last 7yrs

I think his Dad wants it, but who can say? He was keen in the beginning, but seems to have retreated....

I have absolutely NO idea what any of them are thinking....

[Phteven]

OMG at your IL's Holly. That's just inexplicable to me - not to want your son to follow his dreams and to want to turn down an oppurtunity like that. Even if the football doesn't work out it's still a chance to see the world and who knows what doors it might open.
They're lucky I'm not their DIL. I'd be sending the kid a bus ticket and meeting him at the station lol.

[Astrid]

Ok, finally got DH's point of view. He would not separate the family, nor move for the sport, but would be happy enough to get up at 4am to get them to training. As far as he is concerned most kids will shine if they have the talent regardless of whether they are with the best coach or not. There are schools that have sporting programs, when DH was in yrs 11 & 12 he studied under a Talented Athletes Program (which I hated when I was as a student at that college). There are also AIS sporting camps and scholarships which he would be happy for either of the girls to go on.

ETA: Just put the soccer scenario to DH and he admits that one is different. Sports like soccer which pay their players a huge amount of money are different to ones which are just about earning gold medals. He acknowledges that getting a contract with one of the European teams can set someone up for life. He would be willing to discuss what could be done to enable it to happen, he would push for a move to England for the whole family, for example, for a couple of years. So it looks as though it really depends on the sport.

[Hollybolly]

They're lucky I'm not their DIL. I'd be sending the kid a bus ticket and meeting him at the station lol.

I'm a little the same as you - lets just say it hasn't been an easy ride in the family this year

I have driven all over, put him on trains & picked him up from trains, etc etc... its been a chaotic nightmare - and MIL & I have had a few 'not so good' moments!

My SIL (married into the family same as me) and MIL may as well be joined at the hip, and of course they agree on everything - So I've had a few heated moments with my SIL over the past football season as well (who knows what it has to do with her?)

We set up the spare bedroom as BIL's room for when he is here (as he comes down now most Fri nights on the train, and PIL pick him up from the game Sat & drive him home) - have copped HEAPS off PIL & SIL for setting him up a room, telling me its a little over the top.... whatever!

BIL loves that he has a place here - and loves being here... and I have made a point (because the rest of them have made a point to show how uninterested they are) of making every single game he has played this year - even if his games have clashed with DH's, or if I have had to drive an hour from one game to another on different ends of the Central Coast.

He knows how much we're supporting him in this - and you can see how much he needs the support, and how grateful he is that we give it to him.

All of the mums of the boys in the team went out a few weeks ago for dinner & a movie, and they asked me to go (not MIL) - so our support is obvious to the rest of the team as well, so that makes me happy and confident that we're doing the right thing

[kungfubecca]

Hmm, not sure, I guess no one can really say until they assess their particular situation in time. Part of me actually says no don't be silly that's ridiculous, but most mums will do just about anything for their babies.

[AnyDream]

My DH's employer regularly requires our family to be split up and revolve around its needs. And that's without any real thanks or reward. Although DH does get the occasional medal from time to time LOL.

If I could see a true passion shining through my child, we would make each of those decisions as they arose. I don't know that I could *ever* do the 4 am starts, just not biologically geared to do that. But DH could and I'm sure would (again - has done it in the past for his employer without questioning).

However, I agree there is a point in every family where it's either appropriate to continue pushing or not: Anyone seen RazzleDazzle and Little Miss Sunshine???

[Phteven]

I don't know that I could *ever* do the 4 am starts, just not biologically geared to do that.

LOL I'm the same. I informed DH last night that if our children ever had a sporting passion that required early starts he was 'it'

[Nadine216]

I wanna agree with Astid's husband. It depends on the sport. If it could be an income-earning thing, great. Yes, Olympic gold winners can get sponsors and make some money off those deals, but if you are at your peak (say in gymnastics) at 16, would that be enough to "make" you for the rest of your life?? (I don't know, so if anyone does, tell!)

Rugby is big here, so if my son is good in rugby (heaven forbid any of my children being gifted in a contact-sport ) sure I would get up at 4am to take him to training. Would I move to Jo'burg if one of the local clubs don't want to sign him??? or if that would give him a better change to play for South Africa?? That would be a family decision, because it would involve the WHOLE family moving and pitching in to help and supporting. I also believe that you have to spend just as much time on his emotional coaching as on his physical training. A child that has a great talent, needs to know how to handle the punches, the training, the critisism, the sceduals, the failures.
I also agree that a child with natural, God-given talent would thrive under decent coach, it has not to be the "best in the land" coach.

Also I would do it only if it's my CHILDS dream, not mine or his/her dad's. To push my daughter to be the swimmer I never got a chance to be, would be cruel and selfish. But if SHE wants it, who am I to stand in her way. But still, I would draw a line somewhere with swimming, because on it's own (over here) not much money in it.

[Snacks]

OMG Holly, that's awful. It must be so tough for you!
It's even sad to hear that your DH was 'sucked' in to doing what he didn't want too
I'm totally for supporting your kids in their endeavours. But I reckon it takes a really special kid to have that much drive, KWIM? I think any sport (or music!) at an elite level needs a level of discipline that would be an unusual trait for a kid to have and develop all by themself.
In the case of your BIL, Holly, I'd have to say that there's no way I could stand in my kid's way if she were that focussed. I think his story is exceptional! (And *wow* to having a possible football star in your immediate family!!!)
Part of me is very much equality-based, probably due to my mum's attitude about raising kids. She has always been very careful to give us all equal everything (that's including time - like babysitting, LOL!) and I'd like to do the same for my kids. If DD was to become a child prodigy and be given an opportunity to extend it further, I'd have to make sure my other kid was aware that we want to give them the same opportunities wherever possible. I doubt we'll have one child prodigy in our house, let alone two, but even if there were one, I'd want to keep the lines of communication open between us and the non-prodigy to make sure they know they are equally valued... Does that make any sense at all?

[misty]

I think there is a difference between allowing your children to take advantage of oppertunities in life and sacrificing for a 'dream'.

I would encourage my kids to take full advantage of every oppertunity (just as my parents did), but there needs to be a balance in life. If when they are old enough to have finished school and have the talent and the desire to persue a career in sports I would fully support them. However when they are kids, sports are a PART of life - not all of it. They would be allowed and encouraged to develop their sporting talents and compete at all levels - BUT not at the expense of family or schooling (or even recreation). I think that that is a lesson we all need, because it is not healthy to be so obsessive with ANY one thing.

If you sacfrice EVERYTHING for your child's 'dream' - how much pressure is that!!! Every child has a dream to be a famous sports star, actor, musician - some may actually become so in their lives, but a vast majority go on to have other dreams that either replace or live on in conjunction with the first dream. Also you can still live with a dream of becoming a competitive sports person (fullfilling that dream) and not dedicate your entire life and the lives of the rest of the family to do so. You can acheive greatness and satisfy a passion AND have a life.

Furthermore, just because it is a child's dream and you do choose to sacrifice everything for that dream succeeds, what happens if the truth is that although your child is good, they may never be the best - they may simply never be able to fulfil that dream because their talents and skills simply aren't enough. Simply longing to be something, does not make that so; even with the best coaches, the most willing and dedicated student and the best of everything - average skill and talent may remain just that.

Sacrificing EVERYTHING (or even just ALOT) just makes you another stage mum, and in my opinion there are anough of those already in the world.