As many of you would know, the situation with 18-year-old DSD has been very complicated over the years and I think I've gone above and beyond the call of duty. If I started writing all the things that have happened and all the efforts I've made I would literally be here all day but suffice to say that I think I've approached the situation with as much understanding and kindness I could muster while she makes no effort to help herself.
She is currently back living in the US. One of the very many issues I/we have with her is that she is a compulsive liar, makes up stories then gets very angry when she gets found out and gets verbally abusive. I have frequently tried to tell her that honesty is the best policy and that a sincere apology goes a long way. This sort of thing has got her into lots of tangles before, not just with me but with her father, her friends and her teachers and it just makes her life far more complicated than it needs to be.
So a couple of months ago, during a phone call, I questioned her about some of my possessions that I'd found in storage in our shed. I wasn't snooping, we'd had a leak in the shed and her stuff was water-damaged so I was transferring it into dry boxes.
There were some of my notecards in with her stuff. No biggie really in the whole scheme of things. But I asked her about them and of course she went off at the deep end. The end result being that she then accused me of stealing a bracelet she had made with her grandmother (complete fantasy). I then pointed out that she was making that up and she carried on being hysterical and ended the phone call calling me a "rich *****" who could afford to have their things taken.
I subsequently messaged her telling her that if she called the home phone again, I would have no dealings with her until she apologised and once again pointed out that you can't go around treating people like that. THat means that I won't put her on to her father, I'm just hanging up and if she wants to talk to him she can call him on his mobile or email him that she wants to talk. I'm not bothered about what she said to me, I think she just needs to take responsibility for her actions and learn to apologise when she stuffs up. Like I say, this causes endless problems in her life.
Obviously she's not happy about this and has called a few times since then at which point I hang up. I've made it clear in lots of messages that all she has to do is apologise.
I should also say that I'm now approaching her mum (with whom there is also a chequered history) in the same way. She has also gotten hysterical with me, called me all the names under the sun yet expects me to just placidly put DP on the phone when she calls the home phone. The last time, I asked her calmly to explain why she was calling me "scum" and "dirt" and I would not put DP on until we had a chat. She refused and I've also said that I won't do her the courtesy of putting DP on the phone until she explains herself.
DP thinks I'm being a bit silly. I believe there's a right way and a wrong way to treat people and if you treat people badly you can't expect to be treated with courtesy.
i'm having trouble articulating what it is i want to say here...but the basis of it is that it's what's behind the apology that's important to me. i don't want an apology for the sake of one but i'd prefer someone to be genuinely sorry for whatever harm it is they've caused. or to at least accept that their actions have hurt/upset someone.
i'm not sure if i'm completely black & white on a right & wrong way to treat people but i do believe in treating people with respect & pretty much in the way that i would like to be treated myself. i do think you have every right to ask for an apology & to stick to your guns. and even if i didn't agree, i wouldn't think you were silly, rather i'd respect that it's your perogative to ask for an apology.
from reading your threads on your DSD & her mum over the last couple of years though, i'm not sure we're dealing with rational people here who think that way at all! i mean, i cannot fathom why someone would be calling you scum or dirt. but then i like to stay civil with people & don't like the emotional highs & lows that go with that sort of behaviour.
They are important to me but I do agree wirth Sloane, that unless they are heartfelt, it truly defeats the purpose.
Given what you have posted about DSD and her mum (obviously a learnt behaviour) I don't think you will get one and even if you do it wouldn't be from the heart. All in all though I think you need to stick to your guns now b/c you have made a point of wanting an apology and if you were to go back on that, she would feel she has the upper hand. Your DP needs to support you on this too - whilst he might think it is a bit silly, he does not cop the brunt of her behaviour and he should step in & demand the apology.
I think apologies can go a long way, but I would really just prefer people change their behaviour. An apology means nothing to me unless the same thing doesn't happen again. I would accept a change in behaviour without an apology to get past an incident but doesn't sound like she wants to do either.
I completely agree with krysalyss. Apologies are just words until they are backed up by behaviour.
FWIW, I don't think you're being silly in wanting the apology, just as long as you're realistic about the chances of actually getting one. I have read a few of your threads about this pair over the years (I am sure not all of them though) and I think you've done remarkably well in keeping the lines of communication open up until now. In terms of your DP. From his point of view I guess I can see how he might see it as silly. But then he is not being spoken to by your ex-partners in that manner either and I am sure he would not see it as a trivial issue if he were.
I think you sound like you've got really healthy boundaries around this situation. They can contact your DP without having to go through you. I cannot think of any reason why you need to deal with either of them, given how little respect you get from them.
ETA: Just thinking on this a little more, I think we are culturally/socially conditioned to expect/want apologies from people. At least most people in Western cultures are. It starts young. I have found myself prompting DS to give an apology when he hits another child or steals their toy and he has only just turned two!! It's probably a little early developmentally to expect him to understand the point of an apology, yet I find myself prompting him without even thinking about it. It's quite ingrained really. I think it has to do with the way we view other people's behaviour - the attributions we tend to make about others are that they are in control of themselves, making conscious choices and that they intend the consequences that others experience from their behaviour. I guess when the consequences are negative (as in your case here), there is a general expectation that people should regret that and demonstrate their regret by a verbal apology. I bet if this pair were wronged (or believed themselves to be wronged) they would want an apology too.
Generally, I absolutely agree that an apology is pointless unless it's heartfelt. I guess in this case I felt it was babysteps with DSD and at least if I got her to say sorry she may realise it's not that hard and make her more inclined to say sorry in future to other people when she's done the wrong thing. I totally agree that it's a learnt behaviour - her mom absolutely refuses to apologise and her dad (DP) is not crash hot at it either (though he is getting better). So in that respect, I feel that it's not totally her fault for not being able to take responsibility for her actions because her role models have not been great. Hence, the reason I think it's important that I try to show her that it is.
I also completely agree that if her actions/behaviour was showing that she was taking responsibility for her behaviour/life then this would not be a big deal. I'd pass it off as a glitch and move on. Sadly, she is repeating all the same mistakes that have made her life difficult for years.
I guess if I was being completely honest, I know I'm not going to get an apology and I'm cool with that. Not having to deal with her at all actually works for me and in that sense I'm really enjoying having the boundary so maybe I should just be fair dinkum and say that I just want to maintain that boundary. That would probably be more honest of me. After several years of this, I'm just enjoying not having to deal with the dramas and actually be able to concentrate on my DDs.
I think what your going is fantastic it's teaching them that they can no longer treat you with disrespect and for as long you "enforce that they have to treat you with respect too call the house phone" stand your ground babe xoxox
Forgot to say that she frequently speaks to DP like this too and I don't like the fact that he lets her get away with it. She has frequently told him to eff off when he tries to chastise her for her behaviour or calls him a sperm donor etc. etc.
He doesn't enforce any consequences for that - just doesn't call her for a couple of weeks and then pretends nothing has happened. Which is what she expects me to do obviously.
I think when it comes to dealing with an Adult I expect an apology and can understand your wanting one from you DSD and derserably so too. In your situation I personally would screen the calls if its possible and if you see either of their numbers popping up I'd just tell DP that it will be for him.
I'd not bother wasting my time with either of them anymore, you won't ever get a real apology nor will you ever get any respect from them and sadly there is nothing you can do to fix that. All the hurt and worry they both cause is not healthy for you and you deserve to be better.
I come from a long history of " do as I say, not as I do" and have always been expected to apologise but when the OP has been in the wrong its "I'm sorry but ..." which is not an apology, or I have been flat out told that they have done nothing wrong.
SO yeah, I expect an apology if someone does the wrong thing, but I know that for some people its an impossible ask and where I find that, I eliminate contact as much as I can for my own sake.
How Important Are Apologies To You?
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