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I agree with L & B. Sorry you are going through this :hug:
If it happened to me - DH wouldn't be welcome in my house at the moment, because we just don't do that in our relationship. That crosses the line IMO. Geez, I even kicked him out for looking at porn on the net 6 weeks after having DS!! I don't put up with much in my relationship, either he's there 110% for me or he's not. Its really that black or white in my mind.
Hope you are ok :comfort:
Yea I'm agreeing with the majority that this is cheating in the making and he should not be speaking to anybody about your problems.
I would def be talking to him about how you are feeling and suggest some counselling. There may be underlying issues that this could help you work through! If it wasn't for Facebook would they be in contact in any other form?
Big hugs as I would feel sick in the guts if I read something like that.
Not only is it not the topic, but it's completely incorrect. How can it be sexual assault if all parties involved were OK with it.:
ladybird, what has happened is totally not OK. Making plans goes beyond flirting. I would be so hurt by all of it, particularly my relationship being discussed. But regardless of what I or anyone else think, you are not OK with it and that is what makes the situation totally unacceptable.
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Yeah, I have been considering the whole couples counselling scenario. Logistically trying to arrange someone to watch the kids is virtually impossible - but could possibly be doable. I certainly don't want to lose my marriage over this, but I just feel 'odd' around him now, so I need to look at that as a priority. It's hard to explain. I can easily put on the happy face, despite the turmoil I feel inside.
The thing that has stood out to me most is when he said he knew what he was doing was wrong, but like an idiot he continued to do it anyway - and he doesn't know why. I'm wondering if he went to a counsellor alone he would be able to speak more freely than if I was present. He is quite sensitive in nature under the tough exterior - he's shed tears over this too and the last thing I would want to do is go to couples counselling where he might hold back his true feelings for fear of hurting me any further IYKWIM? Would that be as effective? I'd probably also like to see someone solo too.
I have a lot of online, virtual, support. I haven't discussed this with anyone IRL.
No offence meant, but him telling you he doesn't know why he did it when he knew it was wrong is a cop out. He did it because he liked it, because he liked the idea of 'playing' with another woman, and he liked the attention and ego boost. Blaming you or your work situation at the moment are all just him deflecting blame onto you :hug:
And that's what it really boils down to - what YOU think is not ok, and to be honest, it sounds like you're not ok about this.
I have no issue with my man looking at porn, or having female friends, or going for coffees with other women, but would definitely have an issue with him saying to another woman that he wanted to go visit her so he could see her in a bikini.
I don't think I'm particularly tolerant either (just ask my DP). I expect my man to 110% for me too, as DP knows this and tbh, I think I expect nothing less than worship (lol). If I don't get that, I'll walk and he knows that. But I have never considered porn or being out with female friends cheating. So each to their own.
So YOU need to decide if this is not ok, within your relationship.
And to the other thing: I think any unwelcomed and uninvited touching of a woman in a sexual way IS assault. If some parties are ok with it, it doesn't make it less an assault. It just makes it seem that it's an acceptable thing to do, and the ones might even think of objecting will seem 'precious' in comparison. Some might laugh it off, other may not, but either way, not acceptable behaviour.
Sorry I posted at the same time. PZ is right. He may not care about the woman and it may just be an ego boost but he cares about you and that should have been the warning bells telling him to stop.:
My answers, no no no, it's never ok:
Sorry, I don't mean to derail the thread, but this just has me stumped. So you're telling me that despite my being ok with someone touching me in a particular way and giving them permission to do so before they did it, it's still assault. I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. What is ok for me doesn't need to be ok for anyone else, and just because someone else may not be ok with it, doesn't make it assault if it happens to me and I am ok with it.:
It's just like the issue of porn. Mrs Nerd Burger stated that porn is not ok for her and she kicked her DH out for looking at it after she had their DS. You have said that you are ok with your DP looking at porn. Should you object to it simply because someone else may seem precious if they have a problem with it? No. This is no different. Just because someone else may not be ok with a certain behaviour, doesn't mean I should also not be ok with it. I am my own person and can decide what happens to my body.
I actually said if it was unwelcomed and uninvited. In your case it seems clear that it was not the case. And when I say that 'some parties are ok with it' I meant ok with someone touching them even if it was unwanted and uninvited, which wasn't the case with you. You have said you gave the person permission to touch you that way. You are in charge of your body and I certainly don't want to be in charge of it, so as long as it was all consentual. it wasn't what I was actually talking about.:
An example of what I was talking about, I have an uncle who used to be rather 'gropey' when he'd had a few drinks. His gropes were not invited, and not welcomed, but some of my cousins thought it wasn't that big a deal that he was doing against their wishes, and while they preferred for him not to do it, they didn't think it was worth saying anything about it.
I still see that as assault, even if they don't think it's a 'big enough deal' to actually do anything about it.
Is that clearer?
It doesn't have to mean the end of your marriage. Many relationships survive this, but only by addressing it head on and getting into really uncomfortable territory before getting to the other side. You will need to get your hands dirty.
I especially think you guys could be ok if you keep with your approach of being cautious. Cautious with your own reactions and not just losing your block. Breathe and think. You can't think if you're in panic-mode, which it doesn't sound like you're in.
You are doing really, really well, babe xx
This may not add anything. Whilst being black and white about where the line stands, my DH has female friends. He'll catch up with them for lunch or chat on FB but it's no different to him catching up with male friends. Except he doesn't talk constant sport with female friends.
We don't have a perfect relationship. We've hurt each other at times. Usually over misunderstandings. But nothing that would breach our trust. For us, there is a line.
I hope you can sort things out. Just because, for me, it would be an irreparable breach, doesn't mean that for someone else, they couldn't live with it. Your values and beliefs are your own.
Sushee, I think we were both misunderstanding what the other was saying. I definitely agree that the situation you referred to with the gropey uncle was assault. Just cause someone doesn't say "no", doesn't mean they are saying yes.
ladybird, I totally understand you wanting DH to see someone privately so that he can get everything out, rather than possibly keeping things bottled up so as not to cause you further hurt. Would it be possible for you each to see someone, and then come together for a joint session? That could be more effective than only seeing someone as a couple, or individually.
Oh that's bad :(
He's broken your trust and he's hurt you and it's up to him to fix this, if that's what you guys want.
Oh hun, I am so sorry you're going through this.
Like the others say, it's not ok, nor should you have to put up with this. The fact that the kids were mentioned in the pm's must be heart breaking for you.
I just wanted to give you big squishy :hug: and let you know I am here if you need anything, feel free to pm if you need to get anything off your chest!
PS - Are you still on fb??
xxx
I agree that it is wrong of your partner to have been chatting to this woman, in the way he was.
I think the thing which is concerning is that he did it behind your back. In secrecy. As well as knowing you don't like the person and continuing on with the relationship, and telling her things that are private about your relationship, despite it not being an 'in real life relationship' with her. He continued despite him admitting he knew it wasn't right to be doing it. He knew it would hurt you and did it anyway.
I think anything done in secrecy, which he would not have done in front of you is deceiving, disloyal and dishonest. Kind of cheating by omission; 'What she doesn't know won't hurt'.
I believe if something like this happens in a marriage there are unresolved issues. This relationship he's had with her has fulfilled some need in him which wasn't being met.
May I ask, is he still friends with her on FB? If he is that would be my first port of call, insisting that he defriend her, possibly even deactivate his FB for a while, whist you work on this issue.
I do think counselling of some sort is needed, whether it's you and him together, or each of you apart, and then working with each other in your own time on your marriage. Ideally, (if you can), I would suggest doing both, couples counselling and individual.
Good luck hun. I'm sorry this is happening, it must be truly suckiful! I hope things can be sorted out with you.
In my books, that's cheating, end of discussion.
Personally, I would want individual counselling and couples counselling, and I'd move hell and high water to organise for us to be able to do that - provided my DH was going to participate with dedication in the process, and as long as we both were willing to strive to recover the lost trust.
Without two dedicated parties - and an understanding of what boundaries, trusts and so forth were broken - this would in my opinion be futile.
I suspect I would also be expecting that he would need to cease all contact with the woman involved, after telling her not to contact him again, but I'm not positive ...
I don't have an issue whatsoever with my DH contacting women, being friends with them, catching up with them - my husband is a full time SAHD, and he goes to playgroup, has playdates, and whatever else - but it's all out in the open. He doesn't need my permission to meet up with one of them, or for them to come over or a trip to the park or the play centre, in the same way that I'll catch up with male and/or female friends for lunch / coffee / breakfast / a drink / a walk / etc. But it's in the diary, emails are sent to our home account, there's not covert communications.
As soon as there's secrecy, there's the question of why it's that way ...
I'm really sorry this is happening. I'm glad you've found out, and I hope he's man enough to do whatever it takes to earn your trust back, and to help you to feel as loved and special as you did before this happened.
I hope you're ok soon, even if you're not right now :hug:
So the drunk person asked the permission of every woman who's boobs he squeezed? Nothing in the original post led me to believe that he did, so to assume it's okay is assault.:
Not only is it not the topic, but it's completely incorrect. How can it be sexual assault if all parties involved were OK with it.