To Smack or Not To Smack (Children 2 y.o.+)

[BellyBelly]

Did you see how long ago this thread was started?

[AnyDream]

That's a bit cheeky Kelly - weren't you the one who bumped it?

[BellyBelly]

Yeah I couldnt edit the answers now. I have re-written the BB article on smacking so was checking out what we had in the forums.

[~Kaz~]

I haven't smacked DS ever and neither has DP. Of course I can never say never but I plan to never smack him. I just don't think it works. Prior to having him we talked about it and both came to the conclusion that if we used smacking, it would be saved for the really important stuff where safety and life was at risk (like running out onto a road etc) but I was much less comfortable with even that. Since DS is a reality and is into the 2-3 age of independence I think we've both become even more definite in our anti-smacking stance for DS. I just don't think it's necessary. I would rather yell (and do sometimes, to my shame and disappointment) even though I consider yelling to be mildly harmful too (depending on what you're saying and the tone etc). I tend to walk away from DS (in anger) but even that I'm not comfortable with as I see it as a withdrawal of love/attention and I believe he acts out/misbehaves when he most needs attention/support/love etc. I am working on this in myself atm

I work with violent men in a professional sense.There is a lot of research out there to show that using violence/pain to teach a lesson doesn't work. Punishment does not work. It might temporarily stop the behaviour in question but it doesn't resolve the issue underneath that caused the behaviour and it merely makes people (and children) more determined not to get caught next time. It also teaches children that if they are bigger or stronger than the other person, then violence is an acceptable way to solve problems or resolve interpersonal conflicts. When people or children are victims of violence, it just creates a huge amount of negative emotion which is not conducive to learning at all. So the reason the smack happened in the first place can get lost.

I hate violence and I hate how readily condoned it is in society, the community, popular culture etc. Since having DS I have become more and more uncomfortable with the societal norm that it's ok to hit children, in the name of love but that same behaviour towards an adult is considered a crime (even when the perpetrator claims to have done it out of love etc). We don't accept domestic violence between adults but we do accept it towards children (to a certain extent and until it crosses some arbitrary line where after we decide it has caused harm). All violence is harmful IMO and I find it a double standard that DV among adults is generally something that is hidden, shameful, wrong but children can and will be hit, and often in public which makes the shame and embarrassment for them even worse. (I do think it's on a continuum though so I'm not trying to say that a single "light" smack on the bum has the same effect as a full blown and heavy handed assault, but having said that it does depend on the temperament of the child and the nature of the total relationship between the parent and the child at other times, there are lots of factors and judgements of harm are really subjective I know).

I don't mean any disrespect to other parents who hold different views or do things differently in their families but I do have strong feelings about this and I think that if hitting/smacking a child is a parent's response to misbehaviour, then maybe it's because they don't know any better or didn't get the skills from their own childhood etc. So I guess I'm trying to say it's the behaviour I hate, not the parent and I feel for parents as well as the child when I witness public smacking because I wish they had more skills or strategies or self control etc.

[Cranky Kitten]

I've only ever smacked my DD a handful of times. And always it has been something that has been a dangerous situation, such as running out in front of traffic or going to touch a hot bbq plate - I'd rather her feel the pain of my hand to her bottom than get hit by the car or cop a serious burn to the hand. Immediately afterwards though, was the lesson on *why* it was so important that she listen to me, and the fact that it was so rare that I would smack her really drives it home to her that oh geez, Mum's deadly serious about this...

I don't believe it works as a regular discipline tool (how many times do we recall either ourselves or friends/relatives getting the wooden spoon broken across our backsides and still going "nyah nyah, didn't hurt"?) or for children older than about 4 - an age where it's a lot easier to reason with them or use other age-appropriate methods. I also really hate the use of the threat of a smack as a way of getting compliance as I think it leads to a child behaving out of fear of the smack rather than a desire to please.

[Just Me]

I agree with Kaz's post completely.

I have smacked DD1 a couple of times when she was younger, despite my best resolution that I would never do it. I think as I have come to know myself as a parent, I know my boundaries and have decided it is definitely off limits. I have also found ways to regulate myself to make sure that it stays off limits and I don't find myself doing it because I am frustrated and don't know how else to handle the situation (which is what was happening when I smacked DD1). I still get frustrated, but I have found different ways to manage that and vent it that doesn't result in me smacking my kids. I am also more conscious now that my kids are getting older how much they are affected by my actions and I think that keeps me in check a lot also.

Another issue that I have with smacking is that I think it interferes with kids self protective instincts and behaviours. When teaching sex ed to small children, we talk about good touches and bad touches. What does a good touch feel like? What does a bad touch feel like? Bad touches are any unwanted touch ... which can be even as simple as a grandparent or parent hugging a child when they don't want to be hugged. I think as a society, we take it for granted that when we want to hug children, it is okay to do so and children have to accept it. I believe that this too interferes with a child's instincts around understanding their own feelings and therefore affects their ability for self protection.

I believe that when we smack kids, or touch them in any kind of unwanted way, we are desensitising them to many of their natural instincts especially around touch and we make self protection far more difficult.

As far as smacking for safety, I'm sorry Cranky Kitten, but I am also going to have to very respectfully disagree (not that I am judging you so please don't read this like that and this bit is also just a general observation and not directed at you ). I have often heard other parents say that they smack kids when they are too young to reason with and safety is the main reasoning behind this. The reason that I don't think that smacking works when kids are too young to reason, is the amount of complex reasoning that it takes a small child to make the link between the smack and the behaviour. When kids are doing something - like running on the road, or playing with a hot plate - I doubt that many of them are actually thinking that thing specifically. I think many kids that go near the road, do it because they see something on the other side, or they are just running for the fun of it. Same as kids touching the hot plate or oven, I don't think they are specifically thinking about the hot plate or oven. So when we smack kids for those kinds of behaviours, I think it is very difficult for them to make the link between what we think they were doing and the smack. I guess that is why I find the argument that kids can't be reasoned with so interesting, because we are really expecting a huge amount of reasoning from children to understand why they are being smacked, to know not to do it again and to regulate themselves enough to go and find something to do. And if it is talking about it afterwards that makes the difference, then is there really much point in smacking in the first instance?

I do think talking about it is what makes the difference in these situations. I have never had to punish my kids for doing those things, but they understand not to go near the road or play in the kitchen. We did initially punish our kids with time outs as well for certain behaviours, but it occurred to us that it is the conversation with them that is making the difference, not the punishment. In many ways, punishment seems to me to be like red tape that I *should* be doing so that we could get to the real issue by talking about it later. Honestly, since stopping time outs, I have noticed no difference in the way my kids respond to us talking about behaviour.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on smacking. They are reasons why I feel that it doesn't work so please don't feel that I am judging parents who do smack. I am just sharing ideas

ETA: Just realised that this isn't the first page. Whoops! Makes more sense now

[onthefly]

Great work Kaz & Just Me

[*EJ*]

As a child i was majority of the time threatened. My mum had my pa's old 'war belt' and we knew where it was kept and if she'd had enough of us and headed towards that cupboard my brother and i would go running before she even had it in her hands I do remember it being a bit of a game, we'd deliberately be cheeky, pushing the boundries a bit just to see what mum or dad might do and as soon as they got even close to that cupboard my brother and i'd be running to our rooms. I do not remember being hit with it but i assume i may have been from time to time.

For me as a parent (and from the moment i was a parent) i felt i could never smack my child. The thing that plays on me so much is the hurt and dissapointment my child may feel after i hurt them. I understand smacking is generally for a reason but it's also an act of causing pain. It's more so what they may be thinking inside that bothers me the most. I have never hit one of my children.

I have been in situations with my 4.5yr old (probably only in the last 1.5yrs) where i have thought to myself i can see how people could have gotten to the point of feeling they needed to smack a child. But i got past the situation without it. We use the time out or quiet time in the bedroom option and i understand people also have opinions on this but it works for us.

My DH was brought up differently, and i'm sure smacking wasn't that uncommon, not in an abusive way but it was a form of discipline. We have discussed smacking and for the most part we are 'on the same page' although i am aware of one occasion where he smacked our son on the bottom. I wasn't there but when i joined them the dissapointment in my sons face killed me. DH and i didn't discuss it in front of DS at all as i didn't want him to see us not supporting eachother but DH knows i did not agree with it. I think he was quite upset with himself for doing it anyway.

[sas85]

I'm a hand tapper. I prefer other forms of letting DD know she's doing something unacceptable and needs to stop now, normally I just start counting, speak up and put my stern voice on and if she continues I find a naughty spot for her to stand/sit while I tell her again why that is not ok etc and she gets the point, but there are some situations it's not practical - ie the supermarket trolley etc - then I will hand tap. It works, but I agree, although I was smacked as my main form of discipline (with the wooden spoon mostly then too as we were too good at darting hands not painfully of course) and have no issues with it as I respect my parents immensely and am so glad they disciplined us and taught us how to behave appropriately from childhood - I also find other methods to be more effective.