thread: Need some advice.

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  1. #1
    Registered User

    Dec 2006
    In my own private paradise
    15,272

    MR - that doesn't sound right at all.

    for one - why is there so much emphasis on kids getting three serves of dairy a day if it's not necessary. whether it's delivered via a bottle or in a cup, the question still remains - how does BW ensure that Sam is getting the nutrients he needs? i'm pretty sure there wouldn't be the push for having dairy if it wasn't important for the overall health of children (and adults for that matter!). Sam is not quite one year old - up until now, as much as he's been having solids, the mantra of "food is fun until they're one" has still applied - well, i'm guessing - i'm not his mum! but, is it really appropriate to now expect a toddler to cease drinking milk and get all their nutrition from food? is it only ok for BF babies to get their nutrition from milk, but FF babies are expected to get it all from food? if Sam has a lactose intolerance or another protein intolerance, how is he to get the calcium etc that dairy carries

    i am in no way trying to start a BF/FF debate - i just want to know HOW it differs. How is it that the WHO recommends babies continue to have BM until at least two years, and yet it's ok for FF to cease all milk at age one? if you can explain, i'd really appreciate it.

    back on the topic of what to do for Sam - BW, i know you've had issues with yogurt coming straight back up in the past, and given it sounds like Sam is not keen on cheese, i agree with the other ladies in trying him on your milk first. if he doesn't react, it would be worth buying the full cream version. if he does, it would suggest that lactose isn't the problem, and it's perhaps another protein in the milk causing him issues.

    is it possible to get a smaller bottle of the full fat lactose free stuff to try? is normal powdered milk an option? (i know mum told me that i was on powdered milk for a looooong time cos i reacted to full cream milk badly - my dad still does!)

    if sam is happy to eat his three meals and snacks, and still wants milk, i wouldn't deny him any. i know of a lot of children that refuse to drink milk at a young age as they want to be drinking juice or cordial - i personally would prefer to have my kidlets drink milk if possible.

    hope you can come to a result that works for you all. i know the cost of formula can be almost prohibitively expensive - if you can find something that reduces that expense and agrees with Sam's stomach, it would be a great relief both emotionally, physically and financially...

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Jan 2009
    hiding under my desk!
    1,432

    lots of babies who are weaned at 12 months(ff or bf) are ok to not have milk or dairy. calcium can be sourced from LOTS of other foods and is infact better absorbed then dairy products.

    the WHO rec are that for optimum health babies should be breastfed for 2 years when not bf they are ff because this is for nutrition not for (optimum) health it can be stopped at 12 months or continued for as long as parents want(like BFing)

    Full cream is a must it is CRUCIAL for the brain do not skimp on this.

    a tip for yoghurt is serve him yoghurt that is very close to the useby date as the enzymes in it 'eat' the lactose in it so the older it is the less lactose it has.

    also maybe try a baby probiotic for a little while to improve his gut health.

    when he first had cheese and yoghurt was there lots of dairy in his diet? as dairy overload in babies is often the same as dairy intolerance

  3. #3
    Registered User

    Jul 2008
    Brisbane
    592

    Without jumping to conclusions or playing GP, it sounds like Sam could have a mild form of Cow's Milk Protein Intolerance as opposed to lactose intolerance (which is incredibly rare). Our Monster has CMPI and couldn't even cope with Nan HA. He is now on an elemental formula. So you have my sympathies - their tummies get very unhappy

    If you are intent on eventually getting Sam onto cows milk (which we are) then it is probably worthwhile establishing whether or not he is intolerant. This is done by taking a faecal sample and dropping it off at a pathology centre. The testing, which does take a couple of weeks, is bulk-billed. From there you will be able to work out a game plan.

    Until you know where you are at with the whole thing, I would hang tight on giving him any dairy. The faecal test they do actually measures the amount of blood in the stool. If there is blood present then, depending on the amount, they establish just how intolerant bubs is. So basically, if they are intolerant, their gut gets so irritated that it bleeds, which is why I am suggesting you get it checked out just to be sure. In the event of an intolerance, reintroduction of dairy has to be closely monitored and often guidance from a paediatric dietician is necessary. On a positive note, if he can tolerate Nan HA then the chances are that, if he is intolerant, it is very mild.

    I hope this doesn't sound too prescriptive - that is certainly not my intention. I just try and draw peoples' attention to this when I can as it is a horribly under-diagnosed infant ailment often just fobbed off as reflux, colic or lactose intolerance.

    I hope this helps and I really hope that your Sam is just sensitive to milk and not intolerant. Feel free to PM me if you want more info on the topic. Best of luck x

  4. #4
    Lucy in the sky with diamonds.

    Jan 2005
    Funky Town, Vic
    7,070

    Bg - cow milk isn't crucial for human development. In fact dairy isn't terrific for humans all around. Many cultures do not drink cow's milk and it certainly doesn't bother them.

    There are heaps of other ways to get the essentials into a child, which is why Manta Ray pointed BW in the direction of a dietitian. Heaps of people don't drink milk at all cos it makes them feel crap.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Mar 2006
    7,046

    BW - my DD was lactose intolerant when she was younger (thankfully she has outgrown it not). We gave her a lactose free milk found in the UHT section. The name escapes me right now (but I'm sure it will come to me around 2am )... she was fine on that milk. She was also fine on yoghurt and hard cheeses. My MCHN explained that it is the way that those products are made in comparsion to milk and how the lactose is processed. We are still cautious with DD and milk and only give her skim milk which she doesn't react to. At creche she gets 1 cup of full cream milk a day. In total she would probably have about 3 cups of milk in a 24hr period.

    HTH

    MG

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Dec 2005
    6,706

    I have to say that Sam's diet isn't the greatest. We really struggle to get him to eat some foods - mainly fruit. He was incredibly resistant to meat for a very long time, but has come around to chicken in recent times, but that's as far as we get.

    I'm glad BG asked - the whole thing about BF being great for as long as possible but FF is not has had me baffled, and I'm still not sure I can fully get my head around it.

    As it is now, Sam eats no dairy. He never really has because the slightest amount of yoghurt or cheese has resulted in vomiting which is pretty unpleasant. Sam refuses to even try cheese now.

    The fact that Sam's not ok with cheese and yoghurt is leading me to think that it's not the lactose that's the problem. Sambo, from the little I know about CMPI, it should have a pretty drastic and dramatic effect on bowel motions... We've never seen anything like that with Sam (he's actually very easily constipated). He would chuck a lot when he was really young but it wasn't reflux. Very different to the really stinky spews that dairy triggers now so I'm really not sure.

    I honestly don't think Sam's ready to give up bottles. I don't think I am for that matter, either. It's our cuddle and snuggle quiet time before he goes down to sleep for both day naps and at night... Not something I'm keen to lose in a hurry.

    I need to take him to the GP soon - I'll be sure to discuss this then. I kind of wish his next paed appointment was a little closer, but that's not until late January (curse these doctors and their holidays! ).

    BW

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Jul 2006
    Logan
    2,991

    BW - Do you have a good MCHN around? Maybe ask their opinion. Go with what you are comfortable with, and trust your instincts hun

  8. #8
    Lucy in the sky with diamonds.

    Jan 2005
    Funky Town, Vic
    7,070

    DS avoided dairy too - all on his own when he was very little, so I sort of followed his lead.

    It is hard when you want to make sure he is getting what he needs. Have you got a good MCHN? Can she help you on the nutritional side?

    DS has a splash of watered down milk on his weetbix but much more than that and the poor fella is on the toilet. I give him penta vite, cos he is quite fussy. Have you tried that?

    My local council recently implemented a program for parents of fussy eaters - just tips, help and recipes to try. Good stuff.

    xoxox