I judge others all the time.
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I judge others all the time.
Ryn i do research all the time, but i have never read a parenting book apart from Protecting the Gift, which isn't actually a parenting book per se, though it is handy for parents.
I read studies and evaluate how i feel they fit in with my experiences and action or not based on that. DD didn't get tv much before being 2, because i read it wasn't good for her and when she DID get more she actually did behave differently. Ditto caffiene - i read about the effects, i observed DD (yes, she is the child who grabs your can and slugs a bit before you can stop her!) and made up my mind. For lots of things i find external advice helpful, but i know me and i can never read a parenting book and think "Yes, i'll do that" because i think "why do they say that?" first and find it's simpler to do my own research than double-check someone elses'. I suppose i do mainly what comes naturally, but i tend to check it's not a known cause of harm first. Hence DD has literally NEVER had anything but milk or water from a bottle, and hasn't had a bottle since 11.5months because i wanted to protect her teeth, BUT i felt terrible about it and would have let her keep her bottles until now even from how i felt in my heart, because i feel terrible she doesn't get booby...she sucks her thumb though (so do i!) so that sweetened the deal for me a bit.
Bx
Actually, RH, I think I was in an unusual position to do quite a bit of research that determined my parenting approach before DS was born. I was doing my summer semester of my psych degree in my 1st and 2nd trimester of pg and whaddyaknow? We're studying a bit of development! So I took my assignments just that little bit further than I had to with research and the parenting approach I assumed I would take took a turn on its axis. I began 2nd Semester in March of that year and it was Developmental and Biological Psych. I didn't finish the semester because I was too distracted by my pregnancy, esp because I spent more time getting side-tracked by articles for my developmental assignment than concentrating on the course material itself. The assignment was on infant attachment and attachment through the lifespan. Well, that was seminal (and when I repeated the subject, I got a great mark for that assignment)! I knew I wanted to baby wear and that was cemented. I was against co-sleeping, initially and after reading my various journal articles decided that it was exactly what I was going to do. I didn't really come across EC until after DS was born and it seemed too hard to implement (I know better now ;) ) and now that I'm worded up, the next baby will be EC'd (and I've finished off DS's night toileting with EC techniques, too). I know not everyone, or even many people, will be as fervent with researching their inclinations as I am, nor have the resources to access current research on these things (I've got access to the uni database from home). I shudder to think where I'd be had I not had this course to point me in the right direction.
Actually, it was during my summer semester stuff that I found BellyBelly, when researching waterbirth and baby wearing, to back up my assignment!
Anyhow - lots of people are savvy enough not to need this, and are very instinctual with their parenting without having to have the statistical outcomes and longitudinal studies to support their decisions (though it helps when you're being criticised by a know-it-all to know something a bit more to shut them up!). I'd like to think my instinct would have kicked in without the cerebral prompting. My GF was a great role model, anyway, so I might have joined her ranks, regardless!
Yeah, me too. DH and I collected quite a few books on parenting before were even pregnant, as we have always wanted children and pretty well formed our ideas on how we wanted to raise them shead of time.:
Did everyone here seriously research all their parenting choices before they made them?
Back to the topic - ditto what everyone else said about extreme parenting - swearing, abuse, etc.
But I don;t think that judging parenting is necessarily a bad thing. I judge parenting all the time, just like I judge peoples' driving, how they speak to people in shops, how they treat their partners. Personally I find it very useful to watch what other people to an decide if it is right for me or something I want to avoid.
Particularly with parenting, I have found it extremely useful to watch how people handle difficult situations. And I think we learn alot from others' mistakes. Hoobley mentioned the tooth decay thing - my cousin drank apricot nectar from a bottle as a child to the extent that all her baby teeth rotted. Hence like Hoobley our boys only drink milk or water (my mother does sneak the boys diluted juice though!)
And I have seen people let their children blow milk bubbles and finger paint with milk on tables in cafes when they are 2 and a half only to try and stop them when they turn 3 because they are "grown up" now! I don't think parents realise how hard it is to change the rules on kids LOL! I am all for people letting their kids do whatever the heck they want but as a rule I has observed that when parents change the rules of the game they have problems on their hands. So as much as possible, and allowing for our boys' natural and normal childishness, we try to steer them to behaviour that we would like as they are older.
And another example - friends of friends have 2 boys - one is favoured by the mother and one by the father. So this is something we are live to and carefully ensure will not happen in our household.
I am rambling I know, but my point is that critically observing other peoples' parenting can be very useful if you watch for things you like and don't like, and for observing outcomes. After all, most of us have only really seem one parent-child relationship really close up before having kids (ie: ours with our parents) - and we are never really reliable witnesses to our own lives...
I think there's a difference between critically observing and judging though - I will critically observe a friend's parenting. I don't like that her children drink cola but I do like that CCing is seen as a bad thing and therefore we can share other ideas together. I choose not to let DS have any drink bar water or milk: at Nursery they give him very dilute juice in a sippy cup. At home, he has a big-boy cup. DS knows the difference and is OK with it. He'd rather have a big-boy cup than juice any day!
I will see a friend swears at her children, but also see that she swears in normal conversation. Now, I dislike swearing and don't use those words. Can I judge her for having heard and used those words all her life and not seeing a problem with them? No. I can decide not to do that with my child though, without judging.
I will see a friend so desperate for a "big family" she ignores the needs of her daughter so her husband will agree that children are "easy" and they'll have another. I disagree with her methods; I'd like a big family but it ain't gonna happen now! I can't ignore DS's needs because of what I think I want in 10-20 years' time. My friend can. Interestingly, she thinks she's doing better than me because she's a SAHM and I work... we both disagree with the other's parenting. Interesting to see how the children turn out!
And I win "bad parent medal" here for just being very relaxed about parenting and not researching it! I just know that DS has needs, as does every person, and it's my main job to get those needs and some/most of those wants met. I didn't need to research what I do because I am happy with my choices. When DS was very little I refused to give him a bottle and made him have formula in a cup so that he wouldn't decide BFing was too much effort when the bottle is easy. The cup was harder so BFing was a bit more successful. And yes, after a week, he was given bottles anyway, but by then we were BFing fairly well.
I have read parenting books. Quite a lot. I like reading and had a few lent to me. But I still ignored what was said if I didn't think it sounded like what I wanted to do! I suppose I parent with the view of "if I were DS, what do I need to happen?". Today, DS needed to go to Nursery while I study at home: he's tired and I'm tired (up for over 4 hours until gone 6am this morning so the lie-in until a quarter to nine wasn't that wonderful) and he wouldn't play alone and let me study so I'd get snappy and he'd be whingy because he wants to play outside with friends... Win/Win: I can study in peace and have a few breaks from study that don't involve trains and DS can have all trains and friends and happy, rested people around him. I don't need a book or a study to tell me that's the right thing to do! But I know other people would think that a "snow day" means I should have DS with me and enjoy his company... which I have already enjoyed enough today, in my eyes, but I suppose I could have done that if I had wanted to. Or had anyone nearby who'd take DS out for an hour so I could sleep after lunch LOL.
While I was pregnant I read every book the local library had on offer, and all the hand-me-downs from mum and friends who were past the baby stage (what a sad indictment on the people in our town - the one and only book store we had closed down because nobody was buying *anything*). I did bucketloads of research on the internet and still continue to check out new ideas and gather information, but at the end of the day I make an informed choice and decide how to raise DD going by instinct, consulting with DH, mum and keeping in mind what I've learned from books and other sources (friends, the lovely BB ladies etc), and watching how DD reacts to different methods.
I think a lot of people who knew me before I had DD are surprised to see that I'm doing an alright job - a lot of my old friends thought I was going to be one of *those* parents but can now see that I try my very best to learn what is going to be the best thing for DD.
Donna its sad, isn't it, that you get disapproving comments from people just because you readin parenting books! We got the same thing - I think people thought we were going to be very precious and pushy.:
I think a lot of people who knew me before I had DD are surprised to see that I'm doing an alright job - a lot of my old friends thought I was going to be one of *those* parents but can now see that I try my very best to learn what is going to be the best thing for DD.
Ditto RH - I saw these books like a supermarket - I took from the shelves what I wanted and left everything else for other people....:
But I still ignored what was said if I didn't think it sounded like what I wanted to do!
Like lots of other people I think the answers yes and no.
I work in childcare and have seen so many different parenting techniques both positive and negative and how they impact on children. Due to my studies I also know alot about child development but I don't think that is going to make me a better parent. I have learnt to be compassionate through this role as I often take on one of a councillor and have seen how some people just simply don't know how to be a parent. It is a learnt skill and if you have had no positive role models to teach you this then it's easy to fall into the trap of copying the negative parenting you have seen.I think most people try to do the best they can given what experience they have and I try to see the best in people.
In saying that I have seen children who have been abused and neglected and childcare there only positive place in the whole world so that makes not judging people difficult but I have to put that aside and go ok how can I help this child/family? I have bathed children because their parents haven't for a week and have felt angry that this child's rights have been neglected and thanked god they were in a safe place at least a couple of times a week.
Most of us learn to judge right from wrong at a young age so I think we are kind of pre programmed to do it even though we probably don't want to be seen as a judgemental person and certainly don't like being judged ourselves.
This got me thinking. I don't think my research prior or since DS's birth makes me a 'better parent' than someone else is to their child, I think it makes me a better parent to my own child. It also helps me be the parent I want to be, because I decided what kind of parent I wanted to be already - not wanting to try a bit of everything, because I knew that certain contemporary parenting techniques and ideas did not gel with the kind of parent I wanted to provide for my child, nor gel with my ideas of the kind of kid I wanted to produce.:
Due to my studies I also know alot about child development but I don't think that is going to make me a better parent.
So, I think that where I do find myself evaluating the merits of someone else's parenting, it's not so much in terms of "my parenting is better", it's in terms of realising that watching some parents reinforces that my parenting is more respectful of the child as a person (rather than a chattel or ball of flesh designed to interrupt my life), and I find myself more patient because I do have that academic awareness of physiological and cognitive development, the knowledge of the importance of touch and emotional availability of the primary caregiver and a more receptive ear to the voice of intuition than a lot of other parents I see around me.
In this way I 'judge', not in the way that I think parents 'should' do what I do, because a) I don't 'should', and b) I would like them to just get in touch with love and compassion to parent their children, not copy what I do, because that is just as disconnected as following conventional, one-size fits all parenting advice (or worse still, practicing maladaptive patterns copied from their own parents). If there's one 'should' I use, it's that parents 'should' employ utmost love and compassion in all dealings with their children. That's the 'right' starting point, as far as I'm concerned!
But DCP have already said that they will not intervene because he hasn't hurt *this* child. They will only prevent him from living with children he HAS hurt. I don't want to get into too much detail because I'm worried that someone who knows the situation will recognise it and know who I'm talking about (slim chance but you never know), but she was with this person for a number of years before they separated, and it was not until after she left him that she found out about his history. She no longer believes that the claims made against him are real so in her eyes, so she doesn't feel the need to protect her child from him. DCP have been involved with her for some time now as well as with him and with his children and they adamantly refuse to offer any assistance whatsoever. The only thing that would happen if I told them is that my friend would lose her house, which would put her and her child in more danger anyway. He still has visitation with his children who all accused him of assault. He's done jailtime before but protecting children from emotional and physical suffering isn't something DCP are concerned about . .:
Haha, I get what you mean... unfortunately instead of thinking along those lines, most of my friends I'm sure assumed I would be one of those parents who puts their own needs before the child's 100% of the time. The kind of parent who won't change the baby's nappy until it's leaking, wouldn't BF because 'it will interfere with my social life if I have a baby attached to my nipple every two hours', the kind of parent who doesn't give a rats' what the kids are doing providing they're not bothering me. I was never that kind of person, but I went through a stage for a few years where I was a bit off the rails and it definitely coloured people's perception of me. So I think they were all completely shocked when they saw that I actually cared about my baby and my family, it made them really rethink their idea of me as one of those girls who 'do it for the money' or whatever it was they assumed. It's so funny now when I get comments from old friends who say, 'You know, I was always so adamant that I didn't want to have kids, but seeing you being a mum, and seeing it come so naturally, and seeing what a great little family you are and what a gorgeous, bright little girl you have, really makes me think that maybe parenthood is a future worth considering'. It makes me feel good to think that I must be doing *something* right if I'm showing people that while being a mum, and a young mum at that, is really challenging, it's also really rewarding when you do a good job of it.:
As a mum-to-be, I definitely judge other peoples' parenting style. I am also closely watching and taking note of the things that I do like about different parents' approaches and saving them up for when my baby has arrived.
My sister is a really beautiful Mum and her kids are really well behaved, loved, individuals that have manners so I think I am going to be copying a lot of her techniques. I also love watching my Mum with the grandkids and her style of grand-parenting. I asked her if she was the same with us girls when we were kids and she said 'yes, people dont change' but I dont remember her being as much fun as she is now.
I have another girlfriend with 2 kids and while I adore her, there are a lot of parts of her parenting technique that I am going to give a miss. Her kids are just like her dogs, lovable but naughty, untrained puppies! It doesn't make her a bad parent, just a different one to the kind of parent I hope to be.
When I do judge parents, its when they are demonstrating behaviour that I think is totally inappropriate around children such as smoking while pushing the pram, swearing at their kids and speaking to them in an appalling manner, feeding them junk food and soft drinks, and generally having the look and feel of feral parents who are dragging their kids up rather than raising them.
Most other parents you can see that they are trying, even if their values and styles are not what I want my values and style to be, I can only give them kudos for doing their best.
Donna - it's nice when people do a double take of sorts! I've had people say they would never have pictured me as mother-material and say that it really suits me now. I still don't think I'm particularly 'maternal' in the way we think of the term, I just need to be maternal enough for my kid to be unconditionally loved and accepted for who he is, and provide for his needs - whatever kind of maternal I am, it's just what he wants from me :)
I was thinking more about this and decided another post was in order.
I think RHF was right when she brought up the point about critically evaluating others parenting and passing judgement.
I think too often we assume things about people which is when we risk becoming jugemental. For example we can look at someone swearing at their child and think "thats appalling, I would never speak to my child in that manner" and leave it which is critically evaluating or we can go onto assume things about the person. Things such as "I wonder what suberb they are from", or "they are young and don't know any better" are making assumptions about others which lead to judgement.
God that was a bit of a ramble, hope it makes sense.:)
Mayaness, I like your point about the study, I suppose the point I was trying to make about study is that I know alot of stuff in theory but my baby is only 3mths old and I still have lots to learn as I go along. I hate people assuming that because I work in early childhood education I will be a perfect parent with the perfect child(even though I think she's perfect).
In relation to the pedaphile docs would have him on file and are probably waiting for him to stuff up which is horrible cause it means someone else could get hurt. If he is emotionally abusing your friend or her child this is also reportable. They may have sanctions in place like he is not allowed to look after your friends child unsupervised or other conditions.Most of us are disallusioned with docs but they are extremly under resourced and if we keep trying to fight for the rights of children then at least we can know we did our best.
This is an interesting thread.
My thoughts are: There is no such thing as a PERFECT PARENT each and everyday we are learning new ways to deal with things and how to raise our children. I do judge other peoples parenting I am not proud of it. When my first child was born friends and family would judge me " your a first time mother u don't know anything, you should be BFing you shouldn't be going back to work rah rah rah" I felt I was not a good parent and I did not I know that if what I was doing was right or not. Everyone is so quick to judge others parenting skills, But have we ever stopped and looked in the mirror first. Can any of us really say that our parenting skills are 100% and that there is nothing we can do a little better? I know that there are a few things I could do better.
I think I do my best not to judge, or if I find myself doing so I look for underlying reasons, simply because I was pre-judged and judged and found wanting so much by my own mother for so long. Let alone other people - although I think I was a bit more sensitive than I needed to be inside when strangers commented.
Just yesterday at the station I saw tiny babies in forward-facing pushchairs. The mums were young, huge rolls of fat hanging out their clothes (yuck!), smoking, chatting amongst themselves and had been shopping, not talking to baby... you know what? They are copying what they learn. Maybe what their parents did, what all their friends do... they think it's normal. I can't condemn them for being different to me. I can think "I'm glad I have DS facing me as often as possible, that we like chatting, that my clothes cover me up in this cold weather, that I aren't addicted to smoking..." but I can't judge and condemn. Because, as mumma lion said, I'm not perfect. And I'd hope for some compassion when I stuff up too. And a lot of people thought I was odd for having a baby over one facing me so I could chat to him, think I'm odd for wearing a 2-year-old on my hip so we can chat, actually think I'm odd for just enjoying DS's company and wanting to be around him!
^ Haha, I'm convinced everybody thinks I'm a complete weirdo because even though DD's stroller faces forward (although that's used very rarely, usually I pop her in a trolley and she can either stand up and walk around in it or sit in the seat up close to me), I still talk to her constantly while we're out and about. I get some strange looks, but I agree - I enjoy chatting to DD and if that makes other people think I'm strange, then nuts to them :)
GM - I'm the same as you. I talk to DS constantly and I don't care if people think I'm crazy!
On the topic - I would honestly answer yes. We have a track that goes past our house that leads up into a rougher part of town, and I constantly see people going past with kids wearing no shoes and socks on cold days, and swearing and screaming - so mentally I do judge. I also feel greatful that I don't choose to live my life like that and I really feel like I am good mum.
In terms of judging when kids run out onto roads or have tantrums etc, I would say I hope I don't judge since becoming a mum..especially since I was looking at clothes in a shop the other day and I turned around and DS was gone :redface:. Blind panic for 5 minutes until a lady said "I think he's over there". I don't give a hoot if she judged me, I was too busy judging myself.