Does happy mum REALLY equal happy baby?

[sushee]

I've removed/edited a few posts that were not on topic and were an exchange between two members that has nothing to do with the rest of the discussion.

We've always had a policy that says that disagreements between members need to be dealt with OFF the boards, and not in the public forums. Please adhere to this policy. All further to and fros between members on a personal level will be removed without further notice.

[onthefly]

I'm sorry to see some posters taking offence here. I also am glad to see different opinions and thank those that have contributed.

Reading through it all, and realising that the conversation has gone somewhat off topic, I really see a lot of common ground, however.

I often agree with the sentiment behind the phrase when I see it used, I just think, as Liz says, that it may be more helpful for some people posting for advice/support to get a differently worded response. Or maybe not - I guess I can only really speak for myself here. In a way this really just underlines the problems with relying on an online forum for help in the first place (don't want to criticize BB at all, but the internet does have limitations).

[paradise lost]

I typed a big response yesterday but the PC ate it because i'd been logged off (time-out).

Basically i said that no, being a SAHM in the pure sense (as in what DD NEEDS me to do) isn't intellectually challenging, but i am not un-stimulated because i write wiki, i am learning to use Joomla! online and i have a variety of people i can nut out tough intellectual topics with online, IRL, or over the phone.

Fulfillment isn't handed to anyone, we have to find it. Yes, i could find it by going back to work, but i'd rather be where i believe i'm needed most and find ways to meet my needs round the edges. Intellectual stimulation is actually one of the easiest things to find and fit around a kid to me. I have to get up at 6am to fit running in before DD wakes up. I have to wait weeks to get childcare to go out drinking and dancing. But i can think my own thoughts, plan articles and research all day long if i want. There are opportunities to learn everywhere, you just have to look for them.

When i worked my intellectual challenges were handed to me from on high by the boss, now i have to find them myself. Why WOULD having a child meet all your needs? Did being at work meet our needs to be mothers? No, or we wouldn't have had kids. And just as it's possible to be a parent who works, it's possible to be a SAHP who is intellectually stimulated. My DP doesn't know a lot about pregnancy or childbirth, but i'm not having an affair with an Ob, i come and talk to you lot about it! I don't EXPECT DP to meet all my needs, nor do i expect DD to. *I* have to meet my needs. And it can be done without sacrificing DD's needs.

But then, don't we all have different ideas of what our babies "need"? Those of us who have or do SAH believe that's what's best for our babies, but i've heard lots of women say they need to put 6 months olds into nursery full-time to "get them some proper stimulation". I would be devastated if i had to use FF again, but many women use formula from the start without issue, regret or problems. We all have different boundaries. To me HM=HB is only sad when it is used about a clearly miserable mum, who is not at ALL convinced her parenting is enough to keep her baby happy.

Bx

[Smoke Jaguar]

To me HM=HB is only sad when it is used about a clearly miserable mum, who is not at ALL convinced her parenting is enough to keep her baby happy.

This is how I feel about the saying, and like Liz says, is what she thinks she wants to hear, but leaves her neither here nor there, in reality. It IS better to provide more in depth acknowledgment of her predicament. It IS better to say, "I hear that you don't feel stimulated enough, how do you think you would be better stimulated and how would that fit in with your bond with your child?", than to give that overused and tired line of HM=HB. Like someone else said, this means anything you want it to at the time!
I find stimulation in caring for DS, probably because I'm studying psychology and I love the tie-in with attachment parenting and how that is validated every day for us. I come here and flesh out my own theories, or use the uni database for articles and like Bec, find my own stimulation and fulfilment.

[paradise lost]

I come here and flesh out my own theories, or use the uni database for articles and like Bec, find my own stimulation and fulfilment.

Ha! you would not BELIEVE how much i have learned about hypothyroidism in pre and early pregnancy while i've been posting on this thread

Bx

[Snacks]

Maybe it's a throw-away comment but I think that sometimes it can be helpful. Sometimes we need validation of our decisions. We can say that we feel secure enough in our decisions, but I think that's often a falsehood - because we are all here nutting out our parenting issues and seeking in some way or another to validate the choices we've made. (By either arguing against someone or agreeing with them.) I don't much like cliches, but I catch myself using them sometimes if I think it is something someone wants/needs to hear and I agree enough with it to give it to them. I don't see the harm in validating someone's choice when they need it. And if a cliche is enough to validate it, fine. (I'll also acknowledge here that there are some situations where the cliche is not enough. Then as a community we should be challenged to say more and be more supportive.)
If we are confessing to overused phrases we dislike I'll admit that I get really shirty when I read, 'this too shall pass'. And I read it on here heaps. Personally, it doesn't give me any comfort whatsoever.
So I guess we're all different in the type of validation we need.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I get really shirty when I read, 'this too shall pass'. And I read it on here heaps. Personally, it doesn't give me any comfort whatsoever.

Really? I find it's just the kick in the arse I need! It reminds me that I am more than just this moment in time and that I have overcome some huge things in the past and have the resources to continue doing so
I like it because it makes sense and is a real truism. The saying HM=HB just has no sense for me - it's a 'nothing' to me that says "just keep telling yourself that, honey" and offers very little real support or understanding, as discussed earlier. I dont' think anyone has used it for me before and I would be bewildered if someone did, cos I'm not looking for neutrality - I like people to give me real reasons and real feedback. Otherwise, don't bother! And that's just for me - others definitely feel differently and WANT to hear this because they've already decided.
Like I agreed earlier, fulfilment of the mother as a functioning person in her own right need not happen at the expense of the mother-baby dyad. To me, there is no sound reason to separate the entities as having distinct interests during this infancy stage (or beyond, for that matter). To render them distinctly separate confounds the issues the mother is dealing with and doesn't address the problem she has in relating to her new role (whether she's a first timer, or a mother of many accommodating a new soul into her life - to me, every child redefines the mother's role, first or subsequent), in my own opinion and informed thought based on my learnings about infant-mother attachment and development during the lifespan.
See? I can be intellectual and not pine for my pre-baby days! I feel DS has added a new dimension to my world and given me new things to learn about

[Liz]

If we are confessing to overused phrases we dislike I'll admit that I get really shirty when I read, 'this too shall pass'. And I read it on here heaps. Personally, it doesn't give me any comfort whatsoever.

LOL. Yes, it is a bit overused. It's a good reminder that things don't last forever though.