How do i do this?

[briggsy's girl]

i grew up in a household where everything was lead by fear - if we did something wrong, we were punished pretty harshly (usually completely irrelevant to what we'd done wrong - overkill yada yada yada) - anyway - i don't want to do this. i want DD to understand boundaries and safety, but don't want to do it by frightening her into submission

she has recently become mobile and this is starting to become an issue. she has a couple of things she is obsessed with - the TV cabinet (which has a cupboard that looks like a drawer but actually drops open - right at eye level for a crawling baby) - and our heater. we move tell her no and move her away from them all the time, but our little girl is very strong willed and cries like her heart has been broken EVERY SINGLE TIME! it's doing my head in. i want her to know that it's dangerous and she needs to not touch, but i can't bear to hear her cry like that. i don't want to hold her for long periods when we move her though - that feels like we're removing her from the problem and not teaching her boundaries - i want her to have freedom but to understand limitations!


we're going great guns with most other stuff. she is mostly really gentle with how she approaches people because of how we've manage pinching and scratching. she was biting at feed time but that has now stopped. she settles herself in bed (usually wants us in the room for five minutes, but that's no biggie) - everything else we've been able to work out - but i really don't want to be making her cry like her heart has been broken everytime i move her away from something dangerous! HELP!!

oh yeah - 2 minutes after she is moved from one thing and cries her heart out, she is either back, or goes to the other!)

[briggsy's girl]

eep! i think she thinks it's a game - she just went to the heater, hit it, turned and smiled at me, then turned back, waiting for me to come and move her! rat bag!

[Glamourcide]

Must be the age for it, eh? Lol I'm sorry, I have no useful advice because we're going through the same thing with DD2 at the moment... she loves being near me and now that she's crawling, will follow me around. Dinner time has become a hassle because I'm constantly stopping what I'm doing to remove her from the kitchen, she crawls in and goes for the (usually hot) oven door, or plays in the cat food :/ And smiles as she does it, knowing she's being naughty!
Hope some of the other wise women can share their tips, I know it's heartbreaking to hear them sob when you're just trying to keep them safe! *hugs*

[Loula]

Hun, ever heard the saying crul to be kind. dont beat yourself up about this, you are doing your best to protect her.

Children are a lot cleaver than their parents sometimes know! im sure she is starting to test boundries, consistancy is the key.

[briggsy's girl]

thanks Donna and Lou!

it's so hard when she cries like that - if it was a generic "mum you're a cow" whinge, i could cope - but it's a full on "i've been hurt and it's all your fault" cry (complete with throwing her head down and making it seem worse!) - she is strong willed just like mummy (and a drama queen to boot) - i just don't want to hurt her by doing it.

we are very consistent with moving her away from dangerous things - we say no when she goes close, then move her as soon as her hands go out. i offer distraction with toys or something - but she is an inquisitive poppet and gets bored with them easily - no matter how often we cycle her toys

sigh - testing boundaries is one way to look at it!

[~Trish~]

Heehee, what a cheeky little thing

I totally agree with Loula, consistency is the key. As long as you consistently do the same thing when she touches those things, she will eventually learn not to do it. We did this with both our boys and they learned pretty quickly.

[onthefly]

At that age it's really hard, because it does take them a while to get from understanding no to actually following through. And it's FUN to get a big reaction from mummy!
I think, for now, removal and distraction are the only things likely to work very well.

If it's not likely to cause serious injury you might also consider natural consequences... i.e., she opens something she shouldn't, she bangs her head, it hurts, she doesn't want to do it again. DS has learned to be very careful with drawers and cupboards after banging himself and jamming his fingers.

Even though she may understand 'no', she may not have the necessary impulse control to actually stop herself from doing things. It's something she'll develop with time. It is hard when they get so upset about it.

Something I do to deal with frustration is talking things through with DS - it seems dumb at first, but it really seems to work and more and more as DS gets older. We can talk about what he'd like to do (but which I don't want him to do) (Isn't it nice to... It's fun to....) and why we can't (It's really hot... Mummy has to drive the car...) and how he feels about that (You're angry because...) and then go on to some alternative and/or distraction (Why don't we.... So, if you get in your carseat we can go to the shops).

The getting-into-everything stage will pass - you'll figure out a way that works best for you and E, I'm sure

[{sarah}]

Maybe sit with her the next time she goes near the heater & instead of removing her completely just move her hand. It will be repetitive & you'll be likely to move her hand 10 times each time she goes to the heater, but she will get bored with her hand being moved and gentle "no E" and move onto something else. It does take time, but I found this, at least with my two, to be the best way of teaching them not to touch something without the heart break

[MummyTummy]

Hmmm, it is a hard one. Especially at that age.

We actually tried allowing DS to explore said object so it was no longer an object of desire - as long as it was safe to do so and always under supervision. For example power cords. We let him play with power cords that were not plugged in and very quickly once he thought he had figured them out he has left them altogether. In saying this, he wasn't a baby that used his mouth alot to explore so it might have been more of an issue if he was. Cupboards in the kitchen were the same - he was allowed in to the plastic cupboard and the pantry (unopened packets of pasta or cereal generally) and again we supervised him closely and we never put child locks on the other cupboards, but as soon as he approcahed them and tried to open them we would remove him with a 'no' back to the other cupboards and distracted him with something that might engage his curiosity... seems to have worked for us.

They do think it is a game which is why we decided to allow DS to explore without us reacting as long as it is safe to do so. Also you don't want to wear out the word no, you want it to be a useful tool when it really counts IYKWIM!!

But of course there are times when this exploration method can't be allowed such as touching a hot heater. In those instances (for us the hot oven) I have taken him over and held his hand out to feel the radiant heat and used the word 'hot' (you could also use sign language in conjunction with this too) and he seems to understand. So now if I use the word 'hot' he knows not to approach too close. It works with 'slippery' after he has tried to walk on slippery surfaces with abandon. I have always been there to catch him and then use the word slippery but there has been the odd occasion where I've had to call out 'slippery and then he stands stock still and allows me to come and remove him.

But they are just our methods that have worked for us. But I think they have worked well because we used them really early on when they don't have as much momentum or force behind them. When they first start to crawl it is just curious exploration, not trying to be naughty deliberately - until they figure it is a game!

ETA - Marcellus said exactly what I was trying to say in a much more eloquent manner - natural consequences, supervision and removal with distraction. Toys didn't work for us either!

[onthefly]

That's a good one MummyTummy. Now, the only cupboards DS is still dead keen to get into are the ones with kiddy locks on them (we never got around to doing many of our cupboards). He has zero interest in the others.
He also has his own drawer in teh kitchen with safe implements he can play with and goes straight for that one and doesn't worry about the others.

[briggsy's girl]

if it weren't for the danger factor, i would let her go and learn from the consequences - but the heater is one that puts out a lot of heat when it's going, so i need her to learn early about that one cos the day we have a cold one and i have to put it on, i need to know it's not going to result in her being burnt. the tv cabinet is dangerous - i let her touch the other bits and pieces around the house, and was letting her learn from cause and effect about the drop front cupboard - until she pulled it open onto her face (only about an inch from her eye! admittedly, she isn't yanking it so hard now - she's trying to get at the dvd player above it! but it's still something that concerns me. i can't supervise her 24/7 - sometimes i'll have to leave the room to go to the loo or something!


on that subject - i've heard of perspex or similar covers for tv cabinets to stop kidlets getting at things, while still allowing the remote to work - anyone know where i can get one? if i need to, i can move the things into another cupboard with a glass front, but it's not ideal as there is no shelving and it won't breathe as well - not sure it will get enough cool air to be safe

[Heaven]

Oh BG I know exactly what you mean!! I think I wrote a post on it myself! It has stopped now! When I would tell her know she would act like I'd just broke her heart! Not a cranky 'I wanted to play with that' cry but a real sad, lip shaking one Poor little thing. She's stopped doing that now. I think it was just a phase and now she knows what 'No' means and that it doesn't mean I am angry at her but that she can't do something. Doesn't mean she obey's though, LOL. Now she does something she's not supposed to and looks at me and shakes her head 'no' LOL.

[MummyTummy]

I think Pinky McKay has something in her toddler tactics book about children knowing what no means and even shaking their head while doing exactly what they shouldn't be doing. DS does the same occasionally - it is an impulse that they haven't yet learned how to control.

BG, I completely understand about the heater. That's where I worry about our oven - and ours is on the wall - just not high enough to be out of reach!! Can you perhaps get a guard for it? Then you can teach her about not touching the guard etc, but know that she can't reach the heater itself?

I don't know about the perspex covers for the TV cabinet. Can you take the door off temporarily and remove the contents? Once she is walking you can put it back on. It surely won't look any messier than a perspex screen in front of the cabinet? Is it electrical equipment in the cupboard or just things? If you are worried about air flow in another cupboard you could take the back off the cabinet or cut a large hole out of the back (it can be done neatly too!). This should allow sufficient airflow.

[onthefly]

Yeah, I think with the dangerous things some sort of barrier is probably a good way to go.

[Lenny]

Hey BG,
Loads of great advice here already. I think you can get those perspex things from Ikea...Not that there's one near you (or me!) but maybe someone can get one if they are passing through.

We gave DS1 his own cupboard in the kitchen and only kiddie locked the dishwash liquid etc.

I think there are somethings that you can persevere with and tell them no etc, but there are a few things that sometimes you just have to put a barrier up or lock away, or put up high. Just for your own peace of mind.

BTW - where do they learn that cry!! It really makes you feel awful!!

[beckoes]

We had that problem with DD and the fan...i was terrified she was going to loose a finger and its taken till now....18 months old....for her to understand that its dangerous! And now she tells me ''mummy, fans on, be carful'' just had to say it over and over and over and over.
One of the first words dd knew was 'hot' cause the oven is in a possition where if she is in the kitchen shes always in reach of the oven. Now she puts here hand near it and says 'hot' and pulls her hand away! i just always tried to explain why she couldnt touch it, even though at 8 months she probably didnt have a clue what i was talking about, now she looks and listens and understands....its great!!!
Every draw and cupbourd door in our house was locked or latched because even though she knew she wasnt ment to pull the aluminium foil out all over the kitchen, its so shinny and crackly and fun!! Only now does my 'low tone soft telling off voice' actually work. Like you i was yelled at and screamed at till i was to terrified to not do something....always said id try SO hard to never do that to DD
good luck

ETA: just read back over the previous posts...like MT said you can wear out the word NO....DH said NO to everything and it annoyed me so much, he still does it some times and will just say NO NO NO NO NO NO NO in one long sentence and it just means nothing to her now. So my 'emergency' word for when she REALLY has to not do something is STOP. and she freezes!!

[Oorki Galoorki]

NO is a word used in so many ways for adults it can be confusing to children.. can you say STOP to get her attention and then say the cabinet is not for EM then move her, Stop is a direct word. it means exactly that.. No can be no dont go nea.r no not now, no in a minute, No i want you to XYZ.

but i think your on the right track and it can take a while for them to "get It" but they will, my 2 have things they Know are definate do not touch or i can if im careful or its mine and i make the rules about my property.

[Heaven]

I think Pinky McKay has something in her toddler tactics book about children knowing what no means and even shaking their head while doing exactly what they shouldn't be doing. DS does the same occasionally - it is an impulse that they haven't yet learned how to control.

I am reading this book atm and came back to this thread bc I just read that part!!
It says that although at age 1 babies might know what the word 'No' means their brains haven't developed the impulse control yet to actually be able to stop themselves. So that's why my DD will touch something she's not allowed to and look at me and shake her head. Not until they're closer to 2 yrs do they have the impulse control to be able to stop themselves. So keep trying to teach her but also baby-proof the dangerous things