Home births a major risk- *DEBATE today on the herald sun website*

[Little Chicken]

While homebirth is not for me, I think everyone should have the choice and access to those resources. What ever happened to balanced journalism? The thing is if you only look for bad experiences that is all you will find, same as if you only look for good. As for making home births 'illegal'. what are they going to do, fine you if you give birth at home? Take you to court? I feel sorry for the IM's who will lose their careers over this, or risk de-registration if they continue. I don't know if I would want to go back to the hospital system after working in the community. Seriously though the whole system needs a complete overhaul. Wouldn't it be great if these midwives could work out of a hospital and so be covered by the hospital but still provide the same service they did before? Insurance companies have a lot to answer for in my opinion. AAAHHHH I'm rambling, sorry about that, but this whole situation is slightly absurd. I do agree that I think the piece was publish purely to generate traffic to the website and create controversy rather then inform.

[BellyBelly]

Home births a major risk | Herald Sun

Jump onto the site now - LIVE CHAT with Susie and you can post comments.... QUICK!!!

[Olive]

OMG this chick has my blood boiling...shes there simply to argue her stupid points

[miss kris]

I have never had a home birth, let alone been pregnant ... but this womans article just makes my blood boil!! I mean sure she had a traumatic experience, and (thanks to belly belly) i can say that it was probaby due to the cascade of intervention she recieved; however ... its not her place to push her feelings on homebirth onto everyone else. She is using the same scare tactics some stupid OBs use to get women to be induced that end up being the traumatic births we hear about ... just like hers!!

It makes me mad because although i personally don't think i will have a homebirth, i will fully support any woman who choses to! They shouldn't be banning it and driving it underground, the government should be nurturing it and studying it, bringing updated and current information to the hundreds of thousands of birthing women in Australia!

Its a woman's choice and her perogative ... don't push your beliefs onto someone else, haven't we learnt that from history? Its our right as humans to believe in what we want, and to birth how we want.

[Freya]

Im horrified. For Susie and at her ignorant opinions. I was 5lb 4oz at 39wks and my mother birthed me just fine vaginally - and she was 4ft11 and a size 4! So I fail to see how she could have a pelvis so small that a 5lb 5oz baby couldnt fit out, then they can manage to fit forceps in there to pull him out. For a 37wker I would think 5-6lb would be a good weight? My 37wker was 6lb 8oz. My OB told me he was a pretty decent size for his gestation.

[Bathsheba]

I remember a time when journalists at least pretended they were well read Susie claims to have done her research but she clearly hasn't.

[Freya]

I remember a time when journalists at least pretended they were well read Susie claims to have done her research but she clearly hasn't.

She justified being told just that by saying it was an OPINION peice; therefore implying imo that she doesnt need to back up her "facts".

[Bathsheba]

What a load of bullocks (but yes I do recall reading that now that you mention it). Why should an individual's OPINION then have any greater platform than anothers??? She is not providing any service to society at all... her role is simply to provoke strong emotion to sell papers to the outraged. She needs to stop taking advantage of the fact that many people could mistake her writing as the result of thorough research!

[Dansta]

that article just caused enough heat to rise out of my body to warm up the house.

how DARE she say HB should be illegal! where the heck was this womens head at? i'm sad that she can publish such codswollop and get away with it. she stuffed a traumatic birth, which i am truely sorry for. but why did she not explain WHY she birthed her baby at 37 weeks, maybe talk about he could have been in the wrong position? ohh thats right, she wouldn't. its not fair that people like this can say HB is darngerus. and useing the example from SA isn't really applicable - as she's talking or VICTORIAN readers I would love a home birth - but DH isn't keen on it due to the complications we had with our DS post-birth. maybe she feels disimpowered by her first birth - but there is no need to disimpower other women who choose to birth differantly to her. yes its her POV, but its views like this that make me want to melly bash the holders of the view and open their eyes to birth - how it works - while some births yes - they do need intervention and assistance most don't. what would she be saying if her son had of been birthed at 40 weeks no worries at all? would she still be saying home births are bad? pfft, i'm temped to go buy the herald sun tomorrow to see what slanted biased replys they put it (if any)
and her in that comment chat thing...doing would make more sense as she runs away mid-way though!

[Dansta]

that article just caused enough heat to rise out of my body to warm up the house.

how DARE she say HB should be illegal! where the heck was this womens head at? i'm sad that she can publish such codswollop and get away with it. she stuffed a traumatic birth, which i am truely sorry for. but why did she not explain WHY she birthed her baby at 37 weeks, maybe talk about he could have been in the wrong position? ohh thats right, she wouldn't. its not fair that people like this can say HB is darngerus. and useing the example from SA isn't really applicable - as she's talking or VICTORIAN readers I would love a home birth - but DH isn't keen on it due to the complications we had with our DS post-birth. maybe she feels disimpowered by her first birth - but there is no need to disimpower other women who choose to birth differantly to her. yes its her POV, but its views like this that make me want to melly bash the holders of the view and open their eyes to birth - how it works - while some births yes - they do need intervention and assistance most don't. what would she be saying if her son had of been birthed at 40 weeks no worries at all? would she still be saying home births are bad? pfft, i'm temped to go buy the herald sun tomorrow to see what slanted biased replys they put it (if any)
and her in that comment chat thing...doing would make more sense as she runs away mid-way though!

[Ilithyia]

Oh here we go again!

I am flabbergasted that this woman after having her "small" baby RIPPED from her body which mind you had a "default" of it own, can still think that giving birth at home is the unsafe way to give birth!!!! Doesn't she see that something is not right there?!?!

I don't see how people who have absolutely no interest in the subject can bash the $hit out of it with such naievity and uneducation!

I can only hope that women are becoming just as tired of these stories and are educated enough to make a decision for themselves regardless of what some whats-her-name thinks!

And I for one am one of those Women! I am proud to say that I am nurturing a child within whom I plan to birth into his/her's Daddy's hands in the safety and comfort of our home.

[Bathsheba]

Maybe this is a case of how people so often make the loudest fuss JUST before changing their mind about a subject. I have heard that this is what people do when they come up against an argument that is strong but which they are emotionally against. They resist and resist and get very passionate about it.... seemingly... but then the penny drops... they have their light-bulb moment... and then very often become the MOST passionate about the opposing argument, the very one they rejected!!! Seen it time and time again and recently read about it... trying to remember where... Same thing as how ex smokers are the ones that are the most passionately anti-smoking IYKWIM. As long as the "pro" argument has a good basis in logic... as this one does if you do the research.

[Schmickers]

I've expanded my post into more full exploration of the topic.

I wish I knew how to get it published as a reply to her piece. I'd love the opportunity to address her opinions.

[Freya]

Im not intending to offend anyone but............

I have often found that those opposed to homebirth or waterbirthing or horrified by a woman who is soooooooo pro-vaginal birth, do so because they have a traumatic birth story of their own that like Susie they will use to justify why you should be opposed by said topics BUT that deep down they know there is a multitude of things that they should be angry about when it comes to their own birth experience but if they were then they might just have to admit they blindly trusted Drs who did NOT have their best interests at heart. Everyone hates being wrong, hates thinking they could have done more and that a scenario did not have to be that way if they were more knowledgable on their options.

Obviously doesnt apply to every case of a woman who has a traumatic birth experience because ofcourse some are 100% the right way to have done things to ensure mother and bub safety but I think even from all the stories on here about unneccesary birth interventions etc that those situations are the minority.

That makes me extremely angry and sad for birthing women everywhere; that there should even be traumatic birth stories and anger over medical mismanagement and misinformation is a tragedy.

I think this highlights two things:

The way birthing is viewed and undertaken needs to be overhauled. Education for midwives and Obstetricians needs to be radically revised.

Women need to be better informed. Maybe the hospital birth classes should be scrapped and non-biased ones run by independent teachers who are going to ensure that they know all their options, active birthing, proper intervention statistics etc

Ive had a few friends whove been pregnant tell me on numerous occasions "Id love a natural birth but I'll do whatever it takes, I mean we have all these great options to ensure a safe delivery of my baby, if I have to be induced/have csection/use instruments then I'll do what they tell me too".
THAT is where we get caught out. The Drs rely on this to be pushy and lie. Inductions, csections, instrumental help - all these things should not even enter your thoughts until its absolutely neccesary. Other avenues should be tried first like different birthing positions, natural induction methods including acupuncture etc Its like being wary of driving a car JUST IN CASE you get into a car accident. The risk isnt all that high but why tempt fate? Im glad these options are available when things go pear shaped; if my pre eclampsia with Ds1 had been life threatening I would gladly have toddle into an OR for a csection...................but it should not be our first and foremost thought on the off chance things do go wrong. Positive thinking is an amazing thing; maybe if we all concentrated on positive ways to birth our babies and ensuring we've had the best chance at doing that with minimal interference then maybe things would change overall.

Ok Im done, Im sure Ive ****ed more than a few people off; I just think we've gotten so medicalised as a society that we've lost touch with our bodies and nature. Wouldnt it be awesome to know what the problem rate with birthing women in say amazonian tribes is??? I wonder if its lower than ours because they dont have that "what if...........?" factor.

[Cassius2]

It's a sad reflection on our society that some women will probably base their birth decisions on an opinion piece from a hack journalist. She can't even properly explain what happened at her own birth and yet she deems herself qualified to condem other women's educated decisions. Shameful.

:yeahthat:

and i think Freya has made a valid point re the birth classes that are generally provided by hospitals. I remember the ones we had at the private hospital that i birthed my DD in. although i enjoyed them and enjoyed the tours and felt quietly confident in my ability to achieve a birth without intervention there was NO information given regarding intervention risk vs. no intervention. it was not until i just recently finished my calmbirth class and we had an involved session on what it can actually mean to be induced (as an example) and reading Susie's OPINION piece really had the penny drop for me. in our calmbirth class our midwife explained that there is a common trend with posterior births with first time mums for babies to want to turn (ie come out face down as opposed to sunny side up). she explained that this can take a LONG time as the birth progresses 'normally' within time-limits until the baby gets to the point where they want to turn. here she explained is where things can really slow down as bubs makes the move to turn around and come out. AND it is here that she explained (as an experienced hossy midwife) that pressure is placed on a woman to intervene and augment the birth process (ie through induction measures of breaking waters/syntocin etc). she said that when this happens it increases the risk of obstructed birth as bubba's head has not been given enough time to turn and becomes 'stuck'...this is when it then is declared an emergency c-section as there is no other option for baby to come out. (from this she explained that there can be room to negotiate for more time with hossy staff if this happening before accepting augmentation...just for contextualisation!). this made so much sense when reading susie's piece, and I wonder if something similar was happening with her bubba? unfortunately i guess there is no way to ever fully know, as she probably doesnt know herself...it's just such a shame that she was made to feel so disempowered and 'broken' in her body. cause my gosh, 2.5kgs at 37 weeks is pretty frikkin' awesome! DD was 2.7 at 38+2!

[mybabyboy]

I, like alot of people wanted a natural birth. At my local hospital they have a team of midwives called, 'the birth centre team' who largely support the women throghout their pregnancy and delivery in the most natural way. To be a part of this team you need to apply quite early in your pregnancy to secure a position. The birth centre is part of the major hopsital so that if something god forbid was to happen or the mother required intervention such as analgesia, then she could easily transfer to the delivery suite. The pregnant mother needs to be of an extreemly low risk category, therfore all scans and ante natal testing must have been completed and passed. AS I did.
HOwever our darkest day had arrived with the birth of our son. 10 mins after he arrived he was diagnosed with a diaphramatic hernia, something that can only be diagnosed with x ray, something that could not be done at home. The only way the dr's knew something was wrong was because he had resipiratory distress, and the treatment for that is positive airway pressure, so even if it was avail at home, (and it's not) It is not the treatment for a diaphramatic hernia. Initially this made his condition worse. All i can only say is that , if this was your birth story from home then your outcome would be very different to mine. No amount of hypnotherapy, accupunture or all the positive thinking in the world could have diagnosed or help your innocent child
There is always the chance that something can go wrong, no matter how great and low risk your pregnancy has been deemed! Just as mine was. PLease, dont risk your childs life!
I will thank the professionals at that hospital every day for the rest of my life, and then still will never forget how they saved my sons life. My son is a happy healthy 4 and a half month old, and i cherrish every day.

[Schmickers]

mybabyboy, that is such a sad story. I am glad that your boy has had such a good outcome.

For all those that are wondering, diaphragmatic hernias actually can be diagnosed prenatally. They are detected on the routine ultrasound that is offered to all pregnant women. In some cases, they can even operate before the baby is born to repair one! I agree that having a baby with a diaphragmatic hernia is a very good reason not to have a homebirth. And even if someone were unlucky enough to have a baby with an undiagnosed diphragmatic hernia, it is unlikely it would have been diagnosed and x-rayed in 10 minutes - the 10-minute Apgar score hasn't even been completed at that point.

Positive airway pressure, using a bag valve and mask, is readily available in the home setting, and all reputable independent midwives carry resuscitation equipment and portable oxygen with them. While it may not look like the fancy equipment in hospital, it is the same and does the same job.

Like it or not, homebirth is safe. This pattern - from the media, or from the general public - of people decrying homebirth as "unsafe" and then justifying their beliefs with dubious anecdotal evidence or implausible medical horror stories - has to stop. If you don't agree with our decision, then that is okay, but don't try and portray us as unsafe when the evidence is overwhelmingly in our favour.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I think that the wrong end of the equation is being looked at. If I were a politician or a medical 'professional', I would be asking myself WHY so many women are apparently willing to take these risks. Not that I think homebirth is any riskier than hospital, I am pro-homebirth myself, just talking from their perspective. So, rather than spending god knows how much money on ridiculous studies that are only thrown out anyway - why not spend some money finding out why birthing women are so unhappy with the hospital birthing environment? If their focus truly is on women and babies, as opposed to money and power, they need to be asking what THEY need to do to bring back consumer faith. If they wanna treat birth as a business, they need to treat their practice as a business as well.

For myself, the reason I would prefer a homebirth is simply for control. I want to be able to control my environment. I want to be able to control who is allowed into MY environment. I imagine most women would feel the same. So when all I hear from my friends are horror stories of birth rape and trauma, and when all I experience at doctors appointments is condescension and apathy - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that I'm not going to want to birth in a hospital.