1:45
[Comment From Chrissy]
Many women have chose to freebirth when they have the option of homebirth with a midwife, don't you think that women will continue to do it regardless of the law? I support freebirth as I trust my body to birth my baby, if more trust was put int birth instead of a hands on approach maybe hospitals would be less risky!!!
1:45
[Comment From ish]
no we just happen to be the ones losing our right to chose to homebirth hence standing up and yelling NO
1:45
[Comment From Kellie]
You are missing the point Susie, people just want to know that we are not limiting their choices.
1:45
[Comment From Oli]
You only respond to snippets, you are clearly out of your depth on this issue. I've seen so many calls for you to cite evidence or respond to the medical facts damn near every homebirther knows and you can't do it. Everyone and anyone can have an opinion - yours gets air time because it suits the agenda of birth as moral panic, but in reality you are so out of your depth. But it costs you nothing so mouth off about this stuff. Women struggling to find a safe way for themselves AND their babies now have to contend with a public who listen to you and condemn them as selfish reckless people who don't love their children as much as someone like you, who clearly knows far far less. It's so wrong.
1:45
I don't feel out of my depth. I just feel a bit overwhelmed by the volume of comments and am trying to do everyone justice.
1:45
[Comment From mc]
well said samantha
1:45
[Comment From Free]
I rather risk a hb than a hosp births. There is more to safe than just a healthy (or just alive) baby and mum
1:45
[Comment From Guest]
Do you honestly believe a woman would put herself before her baby. You are crazy if you think so. Any woman choosing to homebirth or freebirth do so because they truly believe it's the best for their baby. As for your poor child Susie, if he could come out with forceps your pelvis was big enough. The drugs did not prepare your body to birth and open you up and yet you find the ob blameless.
1:46
What are freebirthers doing then?
1:46
[Comment From Nikki]
but surely drs would do anything uneccessarily
1:46
[Comment From MonicaYB]
Wow, I cannot believe what I just read! It sounds like someone's ignorant, judgmental opinion of homebirths, rather than an educated, factual article. Homebirths are by far safer, and the infant mortality rate is very much lower than that of hospital births. Do the research.
1:46
[Comment From SImone]
I am sorry Susie how dare you suggest that a mother chooses homebirth for her own needs., she does it for her unborn child. If you take a good look at the real facts and figures, it is in fact more dangerous for baby and mother to birth in a hospital. Medical intervention is the danger here. Go on ask the children and mothers that have suffered at the hands of the OB's in the medical profession.
1:46
[Comment From Mara]
Wow, Samanthat that was moving...
1:46
[Comment From Simon]
If the government would provide the indemnity insurance for midwives and provide clear regulations and support for them, then we could have a better, safer system. Give midwives the support they deserve, they have gone to university, they have done their time at hospitals and trained for years to be extremely capable and focused on the safe delivery of babies and the wellbeing of the mother.
1:46
[Comment From HBACer]
Susie - if you birth in a hospital, you are pretty well guarenteed medical intervention
1:46
Yes that is a fair point,. As I said, it's a big problem.
1:46
[Comment From mum of many]
perhaps you should set up a blog or similar to address ALL of the commenstts even after the "live" debate is over... as you clearly have more than you can handle here, and a lot of things it seems you are just ignoring (repeated things that you do not address and yet you have time to throw in small comments that are the same over and over) it will be inetersting to see if you takwe the time to address ALL of these comments when the debate is over, so you cna take all the time you need, or if you will just ignore them and hope we dont realise you are avoiding certain questions lie how your pelvis was OBVIOUSLY not too small if they could drag bubba out with e huge forceps attached,
1:46
[Comment From alice]
well what do you consider to be unnecessary medical intervention then?
1:46
[Comment From Michelle]
Susie I hope you will read back slowly on all these comments and reflect on them, the overwhelming support for home birth is due to the fantastic profile that has been raised by home birth advocates during this long maternity reforms process - most people I talk to when given the facts come to understand it is a safe choice and should be available for all women to choose.
1:46
[Comment From Guest]
The problem is that hospitals are not against unnecessary intervention, Susie. Women have to hire a midwife to get scientifically proven evidenced based care.
1:47
[Comment From Laura]
homebirth and freebirth are two completely different things, the terms are not interchangeable.
1:47
yes I know
1:47
[Comment From HBACer]
charlotte 1:36 - show evidence
1:47
[Comment From Jennifer]
Perhaps there'd be a lot more of us having the homebirths we are passionately defending if there wasn't such a furore and campaign to STOP it happening. I had a c/s for no 1, doesn't mean I don't think that other women who want to birth at home shouldn't be able to do that. I also don't have to be suffering from human rights abuses to ask for them to be upheld.
1:47
[Comment From PC]
Hi Susie.... tricky topic, because it's an issue where the parents desires can be in conflict with the right of the child for the best chance of survival. As a father, I lean towards the child's rights for the best chance, but that put me in conflict with me ex who felt her right's to choose the method of birth took precedence. It was just good fortune that she was visiting the doc when she went in to early labor or our oldest would definitely not have survived!!! Personally, I'd like to see the issue of Sueing a medical practitioner taken OUT of the debate. There are no guarantees of a perfect outcome.... whether in hospital or home. I hate the idea that medical people make decisions that stop them being sued ahead of decisions that benefit their patients... and I know from family members in medicine that this is happening more and more. Finally.... I think there are some areas where the rights of the community should outweigh the rights of the individual.... I'm firmly FOR compulsory innoculation.... but less sure where I stand on home-births and midwives. Midwives are the norm in the UK and it still seems to work ok.
1:47
hey PC thanks
1:47
I am not against midwives. I am against homebirths without registered midwives...
1:47
[Comment From ish]
no words putting in your mouth at all the fact is you dont understand where any of us are coming from we are the ones on the brink of having no option for many of us returning to hospital is only an option if there is an emergency we have been there done that and not keen to reenter that sort of setting where doctors are holding you down telling your your baby is going to die, turnign off monitors then saying there is no heartbeat when you can feel your baby moving inside you
1:47
[Comment From Sally]
If Susie should meet with homebirthers, then some homebirthers should meet with women who have lost a baby.
1:47
[Comment From Elizabeth]
Susie has a right to her opinions as has everyone else...stop attacking! Jeez, talk about a pack of wolfmothers!
1:48
[Comment From Student Midwife]
Susie, I would really like to know your comments about the fact that in NZ midwives are paid by the government to birth women WHERE THEY CHOOSE, with no higher mortality or morbidity rates than in Australia - so why continue to be against home births using your own emotional bias? In no way am I wishing to disqualify your emotions regarding your birth - it was very traumatic for you and your baby by the sound of things. Something you dont ever really get over - but please don't let it influence your stance on homebirths when evidence and other countries models demonstrate its safety for women.
1:48
[Comment From Guest]
So Susie if you're against unnecessary medical intervention - did you seek a second opinion in the induction of your son? Did you do any research? Did you make a decision that best suited you and your family? Or did you simply trust your obstetrician? I researched all of my birth options and chose to birth at home with a qualified, experienced midwife - you're saying I shouldn't have been allowed that choice? Thanks.
1:48
[Comment From Michelle]
Susie you printed my comment but with no answer ....want to meet and discuss this face to face? I am Vice President of Maternity Coalition Victoria and would love to meet you, details are here: Maternity Coalition-State Branches
1:48
Sure why not?
1:48
[Comment From Samantha]
Should women be barred from driving with their children in the car? What about when it's dark? And raining? That's risky. What if they're driving to go shopping for shoes, which aren't as necessary as groceries? Won't somebody think of the children?!
1:48
[Comment From ish]
what is a women supposed to do after suffering post traumatic stress thanks to the professionals she is meant to trust within a hospital to do? She finds a midwife who helps her overcome that
1:48
[Comment From Free]
A healthy baby is not all that matters.
1:48
[Comment From 3girls]
no that is where you are ill informed
1:48
[Comment From Nikki]
i birthed using a hospital run homebirth program. It was funded by the govt.
1:48
[Comment From Oli]
My pelvis was too small for my 9 pound son in hospital - ha ha. The nearly 12 pound one slipped through just fine at home
1:49
[Comment From ish]
hospital run home birth program is exactly what Nicola Roxon is promoting
1:49
[Comment From womens rights]
Because there is no such thing as free speech
1:49
I am trying to give everyone a platform here.
1:49
[Comment From alice]
it is not silly, a hospital run home birthing program makes good sense.
1:49
[Comment From mc]
sunshine = hospital run homebirth program
1:49
[Comment From 3girls]
maybe a bit of research before writing the article would not have gone astray
1:49
Actually I have done a lot of reading and reserach on this over many years.
1:49
[Comment From Allie]
Sally your comment makes NO sense: " i support homebirth, but for me it has to be in a hospital - close to any medical support i may need. "
1:50
[Comment From Mara]
Litigation and suing people these days has gotten out of control & is giving OBS and hospitals too many rights to control women's bodies. And that's what it's all about - control, embedding fear into us, power and money. Try to explain that to all the babies who didn't survive and/or had a traumatic birth in hospital.
1:50
[Comment From Michelle]
Sally, no I have not lost a baby in birth but I did have a very traumatic hospital birth with years of PND that followed, not something I would sign up to in a hurry again.
1:50
[Comment From Student Midwife]
Sally - for you I agree, being at home giving birth after your experience would cause so much anxiety you may be more likely for things to go wrong - if you feel safer in a hospital giving birth, give birth there! But dont judge others who choose to give birth elsewhere.
1:50
[Comment From womens rights]
it is hard to admit that you have been duped.
1:50
[Comment From ish]
But isnt it up to the MOTHER and her careproviders to assess risk not the Governments
1:50
[Comment From Guest]
Sally- I am sorry for your loss, but the fact is that sometimes there is nothing that can be done, no matter where you give birth. Hospitals lose babies all the time.
1:50
[Comment From Zee]
The other issue with the studies is that they don't recognize the iatrogenic risks. The studies assume hospitals are safe and home is dangerous. Plus it is impossible to double blind women giving birth to home or hospital - there would not be nearly enough women willing to go into labor without knowing whether they will deliver at home or in the hospital.
1:50
[Comment From 3girls]
google is you friend Publicly funded homebirth at St George a first for NSW - NSW Department of Health
1:50
[Comment From Guest]
but who decides who is low risk, things still go wrong
1:50
my point.
1:50
[Comment From Homebirther of 3]
It's amazing how if something goes wrong at a home birth it is huge news adding to the poor families grief load, however poor outcomes occur in hospitals every day, often because they are medicalised and rarely does it get a speck of coverage. I am more than comfortable with my choices and hope others can continue to make the same, safe, choices in the future.
1:50
[Comment From Free]
My homebirth was much safer than my hospital births.
1:50
[Comment From 3girls]
St george's homebirth program
1:51
So tell me this , is it an option you all would still choose without a registered midwife???
1:51
[Comment From Kelly]
It would take the same time to set up theatre if you were in hospital than calling it in from home. you'd turn up to the hospital and be wheeled in, in the same time... and you know what - private midwives have much lover c/s rates than hospital births....
1:51
[Comment From K]
she is the expert on ytour body? wow, i thought that would have been you?
1:51
[Comment From lauredhel]
I don't think it's fair to pressure Susie to answer the relevations about her forceps birth - thei nformation has been given, she may need a lot of time to process and research this. It's a difficult, emotional process and can't be done under pressure.
1:51
[Comment From Jade]
No Suzie, the expert on your body is you, not a doctor!
1:51
[Comment From HBACer]
Susie - only YOU are the expert on your body - no one else. No one knows your body like you do.
1:51
[Comment From Free]
Should my choice be banned? Give foetus rights over the mother?
1:51
[Comment From michelle]
women having a home birth are still able to access the excellent skills and facilities in a hosp required. Skilled midwives are expert in looking after women in labour and birth and are capable of assessing them and transfer to hospipat for assistance if needed -
1:51
[Comment From alice]
OB's are trained for high risk births, that is why they are there.
1:51
[Comment From Lisa]
Your doctor lied to you. Have you researched cephalopelvic disproportion?
1:52
Please. Give me a break.
1:52
[Comment From Free]
So you are against unassisted homebirth
1:52
yes I am. I'll bet most women would be.,,, though maybe not women on this post. but that's fine. I accept everyone's right to have their say.I think people who disagree with me should be heard and have thier say.
1:52
[Comment From Danielle]
"Actually the doctor was a she and she is the expert on my body and my baby, not you."
1:52
[Comment From homebirtherandproud]
1.40 - "Actually the doctor was a she and she is the expert on my body and my baby, not you. Sorry to get narky but I don't really like your tone." Actually, YOU are the expert on your body, you alone should have autonomy over what happens to it.
1:52
[Comment From Guest]
some women do not deserve the right to choice
1:53
[Comment From PC]
Susie.... want to mention that I think it's great the you don't overly censor the comments and that you let most of them through. Also really appreciate the fact that you voice your opinion in a balanced way and occasionally even change it!!! Wish all HS blogs were so fairly run. Well done to you!! PS.... wish we were talking about open marriages... much more fun than home births.
1:53
Ha Ha
1:53
[Comment From lauredhel]
Susie, you still haven't given a proposition - I thought I made that last question very clear. When you say you "think women shouldn't have the right', what EXACTLY do you mean?
1:53
I am against free births.
1:53
[Comment From HBACer]
Independant Midwives go through more hoops to stay registered than hospital midiwives or OBs put together!
1:53
[Comment From Lisa]
So women who live on remote cattle properties should have to travel 10 - 12 hours to give birth?
1:54
Some times that;'s the price you pay for living in the country. It shouldn't be that way but it is. It's a great pity country hospitals don't have materniyt units.
1:54
[Comment From Danielle]
"Actually the doctor was a she and she is the expert on my body and my baby, not you." Susie, you are the expert on your body, and your baby....
1:54
Not in this case! But I do appreciate your interest and I think you are right that women should stand up more to doctors
1:54
[Comment From Danielle]
Haha nicely said Nikki!
1:54
[Comment From Moppet]
I would never advocate free birthing. However, it is a womans right to choose what she thinks is best for her and her baby. A homebirth is safe, as shown by the evidence. Sometimes babies do die - in hospital as well.
1:54
[Comment From Guest]
Sorry, Sally, but a trained and equipped midwife can identify complications early and transfer you in- or in the case of a hemorrhage medicate and stabilize you before transferring in. Do you think they only show up with some birkenstocks and a swishy skirt?
1:54
[Comment From Donna]
Susie, all I can say is thank God your article was purely 'opinion', and had very little factual basis. The sad thing is, a lot of uneducated people will take your words as fact and allow your experience to colour their own perceptions.
1:55
[Comment From Free]
None of my comments are being posted.
1:55
sorry I don't think that's true.... I have seen many from you and put them all through
1:55
[Comment From mum of many]
susie i'm sorry, but if the doctor was an expert on your body why did she say your pelvis was too small to fit a baby through yet somehow managed to get that baby out with a huge metal forceps instrument attached? sounds like she was pretty wrong hun, and sounds like there is very obvious indications of her mistake, as the baby DID fit along with a huge medical instrument and i think you know it...
1:55
[Comment From get informed]
i totally agree with your comments Oli
1:55
[Comment From Chrissy]
Within the medical journal of Australia you can also find evidence that support not vaccinating. So I guess it is very clear to me that many of your opinions contradict one another.
1:55
[Comment From Free]
What justice is there in dictating what I do with my body?
1:55
Look to be honest I am a bit conflicted, but there are so many sides to this debate.
1:55
[Comment From michelle]
the medical journal article is completely flawed so can't be used as evidence
1:55
[Comment From Cath]
Still waiting for my comment to show (20 minutes later?)
1:56
sorry Cath maybe some are dropping off, pls resend it. It';s not intentional by any means
1:56
[Comment From homebirtherandproud]
As someone already said, birth is as safe as life gets, the more we interfere with normal birth, the less safe it becomes.
1:56
[Comment From Guest]
Upi javemI'm glad you felt comfortable in hospital Susie, but why would you take away my right to birth comfortably, safely and supported at home? Wit
1:56
[Comment From AF]
Susie, though I don't agree with you, I don't agree with the personal attacks people are launching against you.
1:56
People are angry but we should stick to the topic not get personal
1:56
[Comment From ish]
Nicola Roxon is promoting this as more choice for women but the reality is that for women who like birth birth at home our choices are being stripped away
1:57
I think the Govt needs to do more for reg midwives and birthing centres to give women more choices
1:57
[Comment From Allie]
Susie, you said: "Actually the doctor was a she and she is the expert on my body and my baby, not you." -- I beg to differ. The WOMAN GIVING BIRTH is the expert on her body and her baby, not an obstetrician who sees hundreds of patients and has perhaps met you 5-10 times before birth! Granted I agree that I do not know everything and thus I have hired an independent midwife who is fully qualified and registered to attend my homebirth - she IS "proper medical help", whatever you mean by that.
1:57
I like the idea of that but it sure wasn't true in my case.
1:57
[Comment From HBACer]
medical journal of Aus? Did you read the whole article or the abstract?
1:57
Give me a break. Pls don't patronise me.
1:57
[Comment From Moppet]
Well justice would include not making outrageous, emotive comments that are not supported by evidence. Thats out there for people to read now
1:57
[Comment From Free]
What are freebirthers doing?
1:57
[Comment From Guest]
Freebirthing is like saying it is ok to drink and drive you take a huge risk and it is not just yourself you are risking
1:58
[Comment From Mara]
Sally - I cannot fathom what it must be like for you, losing your baby (and so sorry to hear your loss) - but you still have that choice - ie. now to birth in hospital. The way the system is going, home birthers wont have that choice and that will only increase the dangers. Home birthers will be frowned upon if they have to admit themselves into hospital if there's a complication. It can potentially be disastrous. And then the blame will be on the poor mother/parents if the baby dies - rather than the ignoramus of the government not legalising and indemnifying private midwives.
1:58
[Comment From Student Midwife]
what woman would want an unsafe birth? seriously people, lets give women credit! If they feel safe at home, let them birth at home, if they feel safe at hospital, let them birth in hospital - because we all know that if a woman feels unsafe she is more likely to have a long, difficult labor, feel pain more intensely and have fear counteract her birth hormones that facilitate things going smoothly... its a womans choice.
1:58
[Comment From Jess]
Charlotte, my friend shared the same midwife. She had a great labour all was well until 3rd stage - then placenta wouldnt come, she haemorraghed. Guess what. She homebirthed. Her midwife was excellent. knew before the problem that she needed full medical care - and had her there in time. We live 45mins from the hospital in central tasmania. It is in the quality of care. And knowing that not even the best medical care can save everyone.
1:58
[Comment From Free]
Birthing naturally and safely usually by choice. Informed and educated choice.
1:58
[Comment From Allie]
Hear hear, Jennifer!!! "I wouldn't take away your rigt to choose where you birthed your babies, Susie. I'm glad you felt comfortable in hospital. As you should. Why would you take away my right to birth comfortably, safely and supported at home."
1:58
[Comment From 3girls]
Hbacer I have had 2 intervention free VBACS in a private hospital suprise suprise, so your comment is not exactly true (no drugs either !@! lol)
1:58
[Comment From DAnne]
That's the biggest dif between HB moms and Hospital moms--we HB moms, research and take responsibility--We know our bodies and are the experts of our own bodies. We don't need a priest to be between us and ourselves--just a good midwife when/if we momentarily loose our way. Birth is sexual--not medical. Tis the mind that directs the birth. If you give it over to another that your religion and your outcome. Don't go all catholic on everybody else because of how you believe--and tis all you do is believe--evidence and morality DO NOT support your position.
1:58
[Comment From Charlotte]
Sally - I have, however I was only just on 20 weeks the first time and 32 weeks the second time. I have also lost a 6 year old child and it doesn't matter what age you have to bury your child it rips your heart apart. Medical intervention saved my life so my kids did not lose there mother as well. After I lost one at 32 weeks the next birth I was induced, I wanted to have a c-section but the doctor talked me out of it and said lets try inducing, yeh no didn't work for me mentally (and then I almost died after it) so the other 3 have been "elective" c-sections (and now the tubes are tied :-))
1:58
[Comment From ish]
Re what are freebirthers doing? They are giving birth at home you are using the outside realm to settle your side. Freebirthers make up a tiny percentage of the homebirthing population the 2 are very different things
1:58
[Comment From maz]
perhaps your next article could be about the dangers of medical intervention?
1:58
Actually I have written about how having a caesar was like having an operation to remove an appendix - nothing about me and my baby...
1:59
[Comment From Jac]
well said Hbacer.. I had a traumatic hospital birth because of the intervention. Knowing what I now know.. I would choose HB with a midwife over a hospital, but my right to that decision is being taken away.
1:59
[Comment From Guest]
You say: I am not against midwives. I am against homebirths without registered midwives...
1:59
[Comment From Free]
So you are against freebirtth?
1:59
yes
1:59
[Comment From Danielle]
So are you in favour of homebirths with registered midwives?
1:59
I more respect the choice to be honest - but I just worry about the notion of low risk. How do you know you are low risk? I was low risk but my baby nearly died...
1:59
[Comment From Jess]
so susie, are you against homebirths WITH qualified registered midwives?
2:00
see above
2:00
[Comment From Kelly]
Great to see you thanking supporters of your opinion and not the rest of us who have great, evidence based info to share... keep up the bias, nice work!
2:00
Kelly sorry, I do support your right to your opinion and do thank you for expressing it.
2:00
[Comment From Sam]
WCH - hospital run homebirth. It exists.
2:00
[Comment From Teni]
Not sure where my last comment went, but Sally, I did have a stillbirth, and I'm considering a homebirth for my second (Susie, if you've published my other comment, let this one slide because I haven't seen it )
2:00
[Comment From 3girls]
St GEorge= hospital run homebirth program
2:00
[Comment From Kelly]
which books Susie?
2:00
[Comment From Jess]
I think you need to do some better research. Homebirthing (NOT freebirthing) is very very safe.
2:00
[Comment From K]
doesnt look like it
2:00
[Comment From Flic]
if you're against homebirths without registered midwives your article should really be titled 'Freebirths a major risk'
2:01
[Comment From Jen]
Really? It doesn't show at all
2:01
[Comment From Nikki]
love to see some references
2:01
[Comment From Susie]
And yet Susie, there wasn't any statistics in your article
2:01
[Comment From HBACer]
but you only name one journal Susie
2:01
[Comment From Jess]
Hello where are my posts?
2:01
sorry some must be dropping off. I am puttin up as many as I can
2:01
[Comment From m-j]
We had our babies in a birth centre with a NICU next door down which is just where I wanted it. As a nurse I know we can have a fabtastic birth experience in a SAFE environment. Home birth is a great option if the infastructure is there but as it stands it isn't there for safety first and last ladies
2:01
[Comment From meerah]
Elizabeth, if your options to birth were on the brink of being taken away you would fight like hell against those that oppose it surely. I've done my research and with home birth no matter what the government says because I consider it to be the safest option for me and my child.
2:01
[Comment From mum of many]
you know i have a friend who's baby was demed "too big" to fit thourhg her pelvis, she was on her way for her sceduled c section when she had her "impossibly big baby" in the car on the side of the road with only her husband to help and they were all just fine... i think the doctor got that one just as wrong as your doc did for you.
2:02
So tell me this - if home birth is so wonderful why do only 700 women a year choose it? Are you saying the rest of us don't know our bodies or our babies because we do it differnetly? There is a lot of judgements coming from the homebirthers too...
2:02
[Comment From Donna]
Susie, if you support women having the right to vote, hold a driver's licence, work for equal pay to men, the right to terminate an unwanted or unviable pregnancy, the right to a no-fault divorce, etc etc etc - then you are a complete hypocrite for not supporting a woman's right to choose where and how she gives birth. You may not believe that homebirth is a suitable option for YOUR deliveries, and that's fine, I don't begrudge you the right to choose a hospital birth at all - it is your baby, and your body, you get to decide. Why deny me and others the same right to make our own choices? For what it's worth, from your article it sounds to me like your OB sold you a pack of lies and you bought them. I'm sorry you experienced such trauma, I had my own first labour turn seriously bad thanks to unnecessary medical intervention. It's a crying shame that the medical professionals we trust care so little for our health and wellbeing that THEY put our babies' lives at risk.
2:02
[Comment From Jen]
The studies that show homebirth to be safe far outnumber the studies that show otherwise.
2:02
[Comment From Me]
I am not against midwives. I am against homebirths without registered midwives...
2:02
[Comment From Moppet]
Thiongs go wrong in hospital too
2:02
[Comment From Jess]
good training decides who is low risk
2:02
[Comment From Flic]
To reflect on an earlier comment - you are the expert regarding your body, the doctor is a professional, working for you, providing a service to you
2:03
But when it comes to birth things can go wrong without warning...
2:03
[Comment From Simon]
"I just think women shouldn't have the right to give birth without proper medical help -whatever htat might mean . Especially without a registered midwife." No, your whole article states that you want home births banned... this includes all those home births that have two midwives, oxygen on hand, a full suite of medical tools and knowledge to help in almost any issue that can come along unexpectedly. There will ALWAYS be cases that are unforeseen in hospital and at home, you can't stop them all, what you CAN do is not force people to have to go into an environment where the doctors are constantly offering pain relief when it's not required. Constantly offering to end it with a ceasar, constantly forcing women onto a bed, in a terrible flat position that is not conducive to giving birth, constantly looking for any excuse to intervene because they hate it being out of their hands, and in the hands of the woman's bodies. And man, all these people who are suggesting that people who support homebirth have never experienced babies dying. Sorry, but that's just not true. My wife is a student midwife, she has been present during a stillbirth, our first child spent a month in ICU due to many heart conditions. We are not distant from complications in birth AT ALL.
2:03
[Comment From Kim]
Midwives who attend home births are more than "basically on their own", as I understand it they'll run the risk of being deregistered - this makes no sense at all?! Why would the government make it harder to have access to qualified care?
2:03
[Comment From Megan]
Things go wrong in hospitals too but you don't see anyone suggesting banning hospital birth or elective c-sections now do you?
2:03
Yes but there is medical help on hand.
2:03
[Comment From SImone]
so you are against homebirths without registered midwifes. That is what independant midwives are, registered providing their services at a home birth, what is the issue then, free birthing?
2:04
How many will continue now? What recouse do women have? How do you know they are trained if they are not properly registered? Sounds too risky to me.
2:04
[Comment From Jess]
how many babies die in hospitals? Get that percentage before you denigrate hb
2:04
[Comment From Fiona]
Charlotte, you made an incorrect assumption (your comment at 1:42pm) that homebirth comes with zero medical intervention. Responsibly planned homebirths include an emergency hospital backup support plan.
2:04
[Comment From ish]
Birth with a known careprovider is much safer then birth with someone you have just met who glances over your notes ehce homebirth being just as safe and safer for many of us
2:04
[Comment From Lisa]
The ACM has very strict guidelines on what are the risk factors in pregnancy and birth
2:04
[Comment From Jen]
I would give freebirth - but then again, I know myself and baby. I don't need the medicos or government to tell me what's right or wrong
2:04
[Comment From Free]
Absolutely would freebirth rather than go back to hospital trauma. Yes something could go awry but I believe the risk is higher in hosp.
2:04
You know what I really don't get it. But I respect that you are here explaining to me so thanks for that.
2:04
[Comment From Jess]
Its not foetus rights. They cant make decisions. Its doctors vs mothers
2:04
[Comment From Kelly]
who decides low risk? The midwife who regularly assesses you prenatally (or gp if shared care) and if anything is wrong, blood pressure, whatever... she's not stupid, she'll refer you. Just like if in labour, the heartrate isnt great, she'll want to transfer you... midwives are TRAINED in birth, in a university. they are not nurses or handmaidens.
2:05
But what if they get it wrong? I can't help thinking what if what if what if
2:05
[Comment From Sam]
Writing down your birth story can be a really powerful tool for recovery. I hope you found it cathartic, Suzie.
2:05
[Comment From student midwife]
but if the goverment is not allowing midwives to attend homebirths, then of course women will turn to freebirths
2:05
[Comment From Student Midwife]
I think its fantastic that your not censoring comments - thats something I was skeptical of prior to joining this debate! It shows that your willing to take as good as you give ;-)
2:05
Absolutely,. Regulars will def know that of me. And thanks for being here
2:05
[Comment From Nikki]
against free births, well aware free birth and homebirth are different, and yet the the blurb up the top calls for banning homebirth?
2:06
yes but without registerd midwives surely the risks are greater?
2:06
[Comment From Moppet]
A freebirth... Thats very differnt from a homebirth. There are plenty of women who homebirth with a registered midwife and they have lovely, safe births.
2:06
[Comment From Flic]
If you're against freebirth, then get out there and campaign for supporting midwives to be able to practice everywhere, with government funding, so all women can access them, rather than suggesting that home birth is the issue
2:06
[Comment From ish]
Re:1:51 So tell me this , is it an option you all would still choose without a registered midwife? Is the GOvernment giviong us any other choice but to seek unregistered midwives at this point in time midwives are ALL registered it is as of July many will become unregistered if they can not secure insurance or jump through all the hoops the ama and governement is setting
2:06
[Comment From Kelly]
instead of saying you are against this and that and infuriating the population why dont you say you are pro-hospital birth.
2:06
[Comment From Free]
So I should be forced to have a hb with rmw in hosp? Why? Because its safer for who?
2:06
[Comment From Jennifer]
Some country areas don't even have hospitals, not just no maternity units!
2:07
Yes I know my sister lives in the coutnry and I have written before about the crap deal in country hospitals, great staff poor funding.
2:07
[Comment From Zee]
So in other words, you are against babies being born in cars, bathroom stalls, and even the occasional hospital hallway like in the UK where the hospitals are notoriously understaffed and overcrowded.
2:07
[Comment From homebirtherandproud]
1:53 "I am against free births." isn't it great YOU aren't compelled to choose to free birth - it is not yours or the governments right to tell women they can't.
2:07
[Comment From Simon]
Argh, now you've changed your tune from banning homebirths to being against free births! Me personally, and I know my wife also, would not want to birth at home without any support. That does seem reckless in my mind. And I think legislation should be made in that regard. That the government will fully support independent midwives, give them the insurance they need and let the whole system tie in better with the hospitals for transfers etc. That would make those of us who want the option of home birthing be able to be better supported.
2:07
No I haven't . Without registered midwives how can you be sure you are getting quality medical help?
2:07
[Comment From alice]
But freebirthing and homebirthing are two different things, homebirthing is with a miswife, which it appears you agree with. So the point of your article is what exactly?
2:07
[Comment From Danielle]
This is how you determine if a woman is low risk http://midwives.rentsoft.biz/lib/pdf...nes%202010.pdf
2:07
[Comment From Megan]
Susie, did it not baffle you that the doctor was sayinbg your baby couldn't fit through your pelvis and yet forceps and a baby's head DID fit through?
2:08
Yes but it was very bruised and crushed poor thing
2:08
[Comment From Flic]
it's not about standing up to doctors all the time, but working with them
2:08
[Comment From Allie]
Susie, you said: "So tell me this , is it an option you all would still choose without a registered midwife??? " ---- Registered midwife or not, Susie - YOU are the one who has said ALL homebirth should be illegal! We're not talking about freebirth or abortions or caesarians... you have said all homebirth should be made illegal but now seem to doubt yourself when others talk about having registered, fully qualified & heavily experienced professional midwives attend them at home. You have raised an issue for debate and now can't seem to adequately explain your views!!
2:08
Only in light of the Govt changes....
2:08
[Comment From ish]
how can a woman stand up to a doctor while giving birth seriously this isnt the womens fault and nor should the blame be laid on us for being pressured or physically assaulted during birth
2:08
[Comment From Allie]
So hang on, now you're against FREE BIRTHS, **NOT** home births????? You're all over the place!! it's laughable!
2:08
[Comment From kt]
me too
2:08
Allie I am trying to respond to many different threads of debate. Sorry I am frustrating you...
2:09
[Comment From Chrissy]
Yes I would choose to freebirth in the even that homebirth with a registered midwife is illegal or one in unavailable. I believe that my baby has better outcomes at home where I feel safe then stepping into an environment where interventions may occur that leave me with PND or PTSD.
2:09
[Comment From homebirtherandproud]
"Look to be honest I am a bit conflicted, but there are so many sides to this debate." - conflicted is good. Perhaps with some good hard research you might even change your mind (here's hoping!)
2:09
Thanks for that and I am interested in all these comments, but I am pretty firm in my views.
2:09
[Comment From Free]
There are no studies on the risks of freebirth as far as I know. I think it is much safer than hosp. If a woman is forced to go to hosp it could do so much more damage. Not unlike if I were to force you to birth at home. Not fair, that is why I appreciate choice.
2:09
[Comment From ish]
1:55 Look to be honest I am a bit conflicted, but there are so many sides to this debate. There certainly is so many sides to it and so much to take into account hence why as you can see from this chat many of us will not go down without a fight maybe it would be worthwhile talking to many of us beforeyour next piece
2:09
[Comment From Yonisrus]
So why did you use the example of a homebirth that resulted in a stillborn baby in your article if you are only against freebirth? Have you changed your mind?
2:09
I am against home births without a registered midwive
2:10
[Comment From Flic]
you weren't low risk once your induction began
2:10
[Comment From Oli]
Suzie why don't you examine who has the "right" to define risk?
2:10
[Comment From Cath]
I am concerned with your representations of doulas. You are implying that doulas attend freebirth - in fact, there are only a very small number of doulas who will attend freebirth. And one of the reasons for not attending freebirth is that doulas do not want to be seen as "non medical MIDWIVES". Doulas are not non medical MIDWIVES - they are there for the emotional and practical support of the woman. Also, I really believe that it would benefit you to spend some time attending antenatal visits and births before you make your comments.
2:10
[Comment From Kelly]
Susie you are not low risk anymore when you are induced or given drugs
2:10
[Comment From Tak]
I really think you need to go back to Feminism 101 Susie. Your lack of understanding with regard to the rights of women to choose what is right for them and their body is absolutely astounding. When you agree with a man who says he places the rights of an unborn "child" over that of his partner you are stepping into some really dangerous territory and essentially agreeing with the idea that the clock should be wound back 50 years +
2:10
[Comment From Annelise]
My comments are not being pub.ished, either...
2:10
sorry I think they might be dropping off due to sheer volume. It'swell past the hour but I will keep going
2:10
[Comment From HBACer]
You cant compare an appendictomy to a c section. Appendix removal is keyhole surgery. C section is major abdominal surgery. VERY big difference
2:11
oh you know what I mean. Sterile, horrible. Like surgery, not birth.
2:11
[Comment From Sam]
You are NOT low risk if you're being induced, though Suzie. Your risk category changes, which is why you are continualiy monitored.
2:11
[Comment From ...]
You increased your risk the moment you were induced.
2:11
[Comment From Flic]
ps, that's not to criticise you, only to highlight that all intervention increases risk
2:11
[Comment From Danielle]
You were not low-risk, you were induced...
2:11
[Comment From PC]
I suspect that one of the reasons that this is such a hot, emotionally contested topic, is that it is pretty much the very last time that a mother can put her interests and desires ahead of the child? Once the child is born, there's no question about it.... at least there shouldn't be. It's pretty hard to argue that a free birth is about the welfare of the child.... it's all about the comfort of the mother.... and much as the advocates of free-birth wish to argue otherwise, it's inherently more risky than a birth attended by a midwife or in a hospital.
2:11
[Comment From Zee]
Susie, you were NOT low risk... intrauterine growth restriction (ie small baby for gestational age) would risk you out of home birth. So, that argument of yours is unfortunately moot.
2:11
[Comment From HBACer]
Sam - my child was permenantly injured due to the WCH
2:11
[Comment From SImone]
What the, how can you compare a c/s to the removal of your appendix, clearly you can see that you have not been there, speaking of a c/s, that is a very uneducated comment! Stunned is the look on my face!
2:12
I am just saying it was like a medical procedure, not a birth. It was like any other operation - too sterile, cold, horrible, Iam not as pro-hostpial as many of you are making me out to be
2:12
[Comment From Yonisrus]
Your baby nearly died in a hospital stting after being induced. You would not of been induced in a homebirth so cannot compare the 2.
2:12
[Comment From maha]
where are mine??
2:12
sorry keep trying
2:12
[Comment From mc]
your baby nearly died BECAUSE of the intervention. not because your body failed
2:12
[Comment From ish]
but this is it low risk in a hospital setting of induction and intervention is no longer low risk due to the side effects of those stimulants used. Low risk at home tends to remain low risk as you dont have the intervention
2:12
[Comment From Megan]
because you had unecessary intervention
2:12
[Comment From mum of many]
susie hun you said " I was low risk but my baby nearly died..." that was NOT because your body or your baby were not perfectly designed it was because your body and baby were riushed onto something neither of you were ready for and then micro and mis managed after the fact... should things have been left to take their course you and your baby would have had a much more positive start....
2:12
[Comment From Olive]
Your baby nearly died because of medical intervention - can't you see that? They didn't save his life they very nearly caused his death.
2:12
[Comment From maha]
i was cosnidered high risk at 46 eyars of age...i was too scared to go to HOSPITAL
2:12
[Comment From mc]
my babies were supposedly too big too. Last one was born at home no problems
2:13
[Comment From Guest]
So this is a debate about freebirth exclusively? I don't know why it should be prohibited. Women should be able to choose a freebirth just as readily as a c-section.
2:13
[Comment From Flic]
it costs a lot and there are relatively few independent midwives
2:13
[Comment From Sara]
At the end of the day everyone SHOULD have the right to their own opinion and choice about what birth is right for them and their child. The Government has basically taken that right away but not allowing Women and their partners to make safe choices. This is an infringement on human rights and it's an outrage.
2:13
[Comment From Danielle]
Why do you think they don't choose homebirth? It is not publicly funded!!!
2:13
[Comment From Free]
So ban freebirths and I have to pretend it was ooops I didn't make it to hosp. Fast labours do happen.
2:13
[Comment From Lisa]
Because of scaremongering stats and articles just like this. There is so much mis information and social conditioning regarding birth it is atrocious.
2:13
[Comment From Flic]
plus the 'scare tactic' media coverage has a huge impact on people who don't research their options thoroughly
2:13
[Comment From Guest]
i dont think a induced early labour is at all natural
2:13
[Comment From maha]
tahts true..who holds the statistics
2:13
[Comment From Megan]
Cost SWusie. Not everyone has access to a government funded homebirth program so the choice costs $4000
2:13
[Comment From Fiona]
What I would like to see added to the list of choices is the ability for a woman to choose her own midwife to attend her for the duration of her pregnancy and labour - whether that be in hospital or at home. The system (or at least in Melbourne) doesn't allow for this choice. I can choose an obstetrician, but I would prefer a midwife! This was one of the (many) reasons I chose homebirth over hospital birth. I am having my first child in August, I must admit sometimes I am scared and unsure whether I made the right decision... but the prospect of being in hospital where I get whichever staff member happens to be on shift at the time scares me MORE.
2:13
[Comment From maha]
wish my comments wd get thru!
2:13
sorry doing my best
2:13
[Comment From kt]
why only 700 ? because of the fear mongering artciles like yours have
2:14
because many women think like me - they think "what if?''
2:14
[Comment From Bec]
My first baby was born by c-section because my pelvis was to small. My next baby was born at home with a midwife through my so called small pelvis.
2:14
[Comment From Kelly]
If your baby needed to be induced and you were seeing a private midwife, she'd transfer you... if there were pregnancy complications then she'd pass you onto an expert... Susie only 700 odd women have homebirths because it costs a good $4k out of your own pocket, not funded at all, midwives are dwindling in numbers due to lack of support, insurance etc and scaremongering like you are doing. Its rife in the AMA and RANZCOG and they are a force to be reckoned with
2:14
[Comment From HBACer]
Because there are not so many IM out there anymore. More IM would probably mean more homebirths.Its about access
2:14
[Comment From k]
medical help on hand with a midwife
2:14
[Comment From Kellie]
many many more women would choose to birth at home if it didn't cost a fortune and if there were more independent mws. let's see what the numbers become once our mws have insurance and prescribing rights. it's not easy accessing hb.
2:14
[Comment From Nikki]
ppl dont choose it because of ppl like you who spout it as unsafe. Ppl like their Knob who is a SURGEON telling them that their body will be ripped inside out and they will die and the all the othere associated blah. Why would a woman research anything with all the "EVIDENCE being spouted by opinion columnists?
2:15
So you are for the right of women to choose but then denigrate the women who make a different choice to you???
2:15
[Comment From bellydancebirth]
As a homebirther at 46 years of age I am sick of hearing negatitivty about BIRTH fullstop
2:15
[Comment From Student Midwife]
You were classed as low risk prior to your labor beginning. You were probably anxious like I was with my first baby, and found the pain of the contractions difficult to cope with so had pain relief - possibly an epidural. From that point onwards you became high risk as epidurals have a list of risks to mum and baby - from slowing the labor down to the fact that you are more likely to be bed ridden meaning you cannot move about to help baby wiggle down through your pelvis... therefore being able to look back retrospectively and determine that you were incorrectly labeled as "low risk" is impossible - because of the confounding factors during your labor. Does this make sense? Prior to any interventions you may well have been low risk, but once you start a) restricting a womans movements b) introducing pharmacological pain relief methods you have no way of knowing or comparing what may have happened without these things being introduced...
2:15
[Comment From Megan]
Sure theres medical help on handbut so often it was that "help" that caused the problems in the first place
2:15
Thanks STudent Midwife by the way for your efforts.
2:15
[Comment From Oli]
Suzie why do so few women choose homebirth? Thats a question that has been answered for you in this discussion time and time and time and time again, you are not paying attention. We have a culture of fear surrounding birth - one which people such as yourself, contribute to. The idea that women who homebirth are selfish or careless is an lie, but well championed by many.
2:15
[Comment From ...]
Wow, chat is lagging.
2:15
sorry too many comments to put in
2:16
[Comment From meerah]
Susie people dont choose it because the option isnt encouraged, its not a main stream idea. I must admit before a friend who was considering home birth started researching it, I would have got on the hospital band wagon straight away without even thinking OR researching it, i would have just done what everyone else does just because it was the done thing! I now know how insane that is and am happy that I took control of my birth and that the decision I made was truely mine.
2:16
[Comment From Charlotte]
Simon - I was rushed to the emergancy after one of my births. If I had a midwife/homebirth/freebirth or what ever it is you want to call it NONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAVE ME believe me oxygen would have done **** all!
2:16
[Comment From Zee]
The modern social construct of what birth should be like is in my opinion the reason why more people don't even question the "system" to begin with. Who would consider birthing at home when everything that is out there in the mainstream media screams of the glistening safety of the almight hospital with it's all knowing doctors...