Homebirth General Discussion #14

hello girls!

Teni: you are not being silly for sharing your thoughts :hug: And FWIW i would *totally* go to the appointment to get the scan images of my baby. that's my baby afterall and i would want all of them!
but i do agree that you should contact your IM and let them know that you went. it can be really weird and intimidating realising that they are there for you. i find it hard to call up my IM even now lol! but it is what they are there for. they are there for you and baby. let your main midwife know, as she will most likely want a copy of the report as well. Usually you can ask the hospital to send a report to her as well (do you have her address?). if not, get a copy of it and give it her at your next appt with her. and seriously, ANY concern or niggle you have, feel totally AOK in calling them :hug: they will love and support you so much...it's truly fantastic, trust me xx

Arimeh: oohhh, that would be so full on having a 38 weeker turning lol!

Breech isnt bad Arimeh :hug: it is also normal. you can still birth that baby. is your IM able to help you with breech birth? I know that my team are really experienced and when we were worried about DD3 at one point they told me that i would still be aiming for a HB :D. there are some really fantastic breech birth info stuff out there. if you feel that baby is content to stay that way, i would get reading and arm yourself with all the knowledge you can muster so that whatever decision you need to make it is yours ITMS.

Y'know what I realised earlier today, on the subject of calling midwives when there's any (real or perceived) problem? Again, because I'm so used to the hospital route - and really any kind of medical thing - I've never had someone I can just call up personally and talk to. Any GP appointment I've had in the past has just been go into the clinic and see whoever's there. Hospital appointments in pregnancy, pretty much the same deal aside from seeing the same OB for the last few weeks of pregnancy with Amelia and every now and then with Ianto. If there's an emergency (or it's the middle of the night and I don't think the 24-hour GP is enough), we go to the emergency room of the hospital. It's never been the same person/people I see every time. So I think that's why I'd be hesitant to call Kelly and Jan - I'm just not used to someone being "on call" just for me! I see whoever I'm sent to, usually. It's an odd experience for me to have ongoing care in any way :lol:

The thing that got me thinking about it was that I got a bill from the RWH wanting more money for my notes :o I was going to call Kelly to ask if that's normal - it's going to be about $65 all up - but I thought I'd ask here first. I thought it was just the one fee and that was it, now they want copying fees and searching fees?! Really? Ianto's were free... Could it just be because Amelia's might be more detailed?

That's another job for your IM! When i got my notes, if i did it myself there were costs but if my IM (or another health care provider) submitted the request then fees were waived. Before you pay, check with the midwife to see if they can make it easier, or cheaper for you.

That's the thing, apparently the hospital changed their computer systems or something and the midwives can't access anything more recent than a year or so ago :( Or that's what I think Kelly said... I admit I wasn't paying full attention at that point, Amelia was trying to steal the pen I was using to fill some paperwork with.

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Ah Arimeh... :( Too early now to stress. What does your m/w say? They have a vaginal breech program at Westmead in Sydney, plus a couple of the m/ws I know have just had successful twin vaginal births (even a water birth) there too. Still not ideal, considering how much I value HB, but that's there at least. Not much help to you in Qld though!

Any other ideas? Did you do anything for the girls?

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I did upside down handstands in the shower and squats to turn the girls, but I think they would have on their own eventually. Unfortunately *insert sigh here* my midwives don't do breech homebirths, so I would be sent to the hospital for an ecv at 37 weeks - and I've talked to my friend who is a midwife there - and she said that the doctors there are reluctant to do the ecv if you have an anterior placenta. Which of course, I do. So its either turn or immediate c-section at 39 weeks - I could *possibly* talk them into letting me go to 40 weeks gestation given my history of being a 42-weeker, but my friend doubts it. They definitely do NOT do vaginal breech there unless its a premature birth that went too quickly, or an undiagnosed breech in labour OR a second twin. And all occasions it has been "accidents"

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Arimeh have you looked at the Spinning Babies website? They've got lots of info on fetal positioning and helping your baby into a better position for birth. You've got lots of time yet to help that baby move. Try not to stress! It'll be OK. :hug:

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Yeah I've been looking into it, and trying some positions. The one with the knees on the edge of the couch is really hard to get up from when you are as heavy as I am PMSL

My IM went in to FOI at the RWH and filled in the forms in her name for my file. I think i had to sign consent. The file was copied and then sent out. it took a few weeks. This was in 2010 though so maybe things have changed.

The charges are listed on the website. Health Records[]=foi if they are alot different to what you have been quoted, you could ask them to review. if you have a health care card the application fee can be waived.

maybe my im knew the foi officer or something??

Yeah, I had a look at those just now, I just didn't consider there'd be any extra charges so I didn't think to look it up when I applied.

You'd have got yours through your IM before they changed the systems, whereas I had Amelia before the change and now asking after.

The biggest annoyance for me aside from the not knowing is that there's apparently 111 pages. In comparison, Ianto's file was about 5 pages... Even if I'd known to expect this bill I wouldn't have expected to pay more than a dollar or two for the lot. Instead it's $22.20 just for that. Then there's the $20 search fee, $25.10 application fee (which is the one I've paid and I thought was the only fee), $5 postage... At least the postage I can avoid, I'll just tell them I want to come in and pick it up instead. Woohoo, $5 saved :lol:

The fees were still charged back then, my IM just did something and the charges were waived. unless, it was because i had been through the consumer advocate/ complaint process.

I think other medical people (as in, outside of the hospital) can get them free, but in this particular case they couldn't because of the system change. So even if it was a GP or a different hospital I'm giving them to, I'd have had to still apply as though it was only for personal usage. Though again, I was only half-listening and building on my own assumption :)

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Yeah I've been looking into it, and trying some positions. The one with the knees on the edge of the couch is really hard to get up from when you are as heavy as I am PMSL

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I don't think it matters how big/small you are - that's a terrible position to get into and maintain! I was doing it to try to give my posterior baby room to turn with my last pregnancy, and I thought my eyeballs were going to explode! :) I began to think that delivering her posterior might be better than sitting upside down like that any more....

Hope he turns soon for you though, so you can rest easy! A lot of people do swear by chiropractic help to get breech babies to turn.

Insomnia is starting to hit over here. Ugh. Two nights in a row of about 3-4 hr of sleep makes things difficult when all the kids are home from school! The good thing is, my oldest girls are OK to handle things while the littlest ones nap so that I can lay down for a little while in the afternoon. Last night was better though - so hopefully this won't be something I have to deal with every night until baby arrives!

I agree, the spinning babies positions are not easy for any normal person.! My DS was very mobile until the end, even though he was over 10lb. lots of time being transverse, breech at 38 and 40 weeks. we could move him head down with rebozo, but he would move again. I worry for this little one, my tummy muscles are probably in worse condition. I was fortunate to have midwife comfortable with breech birth, and a baby who got his shiz together at the right time.
both mine have been 41 weekers and I would be reluctant to consent to c section early too. c,mon baby, be nice to your mum.

Arimeh- I'm sure Zoe was breach at her 30 week app my midwife wasn't and said she wouldn't have been concerned until 36 weeks. Thankfully she turned on her and boy did I feel it!!

I'm kinda sad now. I am realizing that this is it. No more babies for me. I will never get that moment of giving birth again and meeting the tiny human I have grown. :(
Hoping if I get into midwifery that it will take the edge of my love of birthing and satisfy it.

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I don't think it matters how big/small you are - that's a terrible position to get into and maintain! I was doing it to try to give my posterior baby room to turn with my last pregnancy, and I thought my eyeballs were going to explode! :)

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Hahaha yeah sometimes I feel my brain is going to pop out my ears or something!!!! Too much pressure. Hope your insomnia goes away soon, I normally get that around 40 weeks - not pleasant at all!

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I agree, the spinning babies positions are not easy for any normal person.! My DS was very mobile until the end, even though he was over 10lb. lots of time being transverse, breech at 38 and 40 weeks. we could move him head down with rebozo, but he would move again. I worry for this little one, my tummy muscles are probably in worse condition. I was fortunate to have midwife comfortable with breech birth, and a baby who got his shiz together at the right time.
both mine have been 41 weekers and I would be reluctant to consent to c section early too. c,mon baby, be nice to your mum.

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Yeah both girls were really mobile, thats why I wasn't worried. DD3 was still mobile and floating high when I went into labour with her and 2 hours later I was pushing her out, so I know they can move - this one just feels different because he isn't mobile, he's just sitting there. I think he tilts his head forward sometimes because I feel it between my ribs, but mostly its under my left rib. Its the fact that he isn't mobile that concerns me I think.

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Arimeh- I'm sure Zoe was breach at her 30 week app my midwife wasn't and said she wouldn't have been concerned until 36 weeks. Thankfully she turned on her and boy did I feel it!!

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Yeah I normally wouldn't be concerned except for the whole not mobile thing! I haven't talked to my midwife yet - she's in Germany at the moment, and I have an appointment at 32 weeks with the other midwives that work with her, but I know they get a little antsy if they haven't turned at 37 weeks. So I know I've got time, but I've never had one that wasn't mobile! And I think its the unknown thats scaring me, so I'm sort of getting into the mind frame that if it turns into a c-section then it was meant to be.

I hope you do become a midwife - I think everyone who is passionate about birth should be! Its the only way change will be made in our system, if more people who are passionate about natural birthing and no-intervention births become midwives!

Maybe if you can get him to move, then he might be happy enough to stay there. Ask your midwife if she can do rebozo.

Had my little cousin (my cousin's 17-year-old daughter) ask me yesterday if I was "still planning on that homebirth thing?" I said yes, and she grinned at me and went "that's SO COOL!" :leap: She was so excited I felt like asking her to come along to watch :lol: She's so interested in it all, I hope she remembers when (if) she has babies of her own :)

Hey ladies! Does anyone know if there's anything I can do to minimize the likelihood of PPH? That's one thing I worry about a bit with this being baby #7. Would drinking RLT, or taking raspberry leaf capsules do anything? I'll be having a CBC done soon to make sure that my hemoglobin is at a good level, but if there's anything else I can do to help, I'd be interested to hear it.
I've never had a PPH before, but I definitely don't want this to be the first time! :)

Cricket: arnica and some placenta in the immediate post birth moment.

I took a single dose arnica of 200Ch immediately after. you could get your midwife to give you a bit of your placenta...i heard that smoothies are a great way to go. i will do that if there is a next time me thinks.

Teni: that is so cool that family is on board :D

I don't think RLT helps - I've read it actually increases the likelihood of it occurring? I dunno, but I took RLT in my pregnancy with Eden and Sahti, had a bleed of 400ml with Eden, and 800ml with Sahti...... so I'm tossing up whether or not I should take it again this time round....

I've taken RLT both times and I'd say not to for you Cricket. I won't be taking it again myself. I definitely agree with arnica and a placenta smoothie right after. My midwife made mine with milk, yogurt, frozen berries and placenta, couldn't taste it at all.

Interesting - I thought RLT was supposed to tone the uterus and make contractions more efficient, etc. I would have thought it would be beneficial for keeping it clamped down hard after delivery too. I never have taken it - was just thinking about it. Thanks for the info though, ladies - that really helps!
I don't think I'll be having placenta smoothie. I think my DH would die. Honestly. That's the one thing that grosses him right out about birth - the placenta. Weird, but that's how it is. Arnica though, we can probably do. And I have had the syntocin shot after birth too, which I'm OK with.

It absolutely makes them more efficient, which is why I won't be taking it again. I've had two 6 hour labours, which were both horribly painful, contractions 2 mins apart from 1-2 hours in and no build up in pain or intensity. I figure the harder your uterus is working, the more blood etc it's pushing out. I had around 600ml losses both times.

I didn't really drink it as often as I was "supposed to" with Amelia, so I'm thinking I'll just do the same this time since I like the taste with honey anyway. Perhaps I'd get a small benefit from it, but not to the point of it being potentially problematic? I think my labour's going to be short-ish but I don't want to fool myself too much JIC it goes for much longer... Can't really predict it, hey?

I bought a new day planner today so I don't have to rely on my phone to see when appointments should be made, because I was caught out last time and had to guess at DH's work roster. Turns out I guessed correctly, but still. I want to know.

Only a couple more days until my next appointment, I actually have a few things I want to discuss! Yay, no "uh, no, that's it really" this time around when Kelly asks :lol:

I had RLT in both pregnancies. I had amazing labours with textbook buildup of contractions and a very well functioning uterus. I had some blood loss at the end of the first labour but honestly I think that was more that my waters broke as baby was born and there was so much blood and muck everywhere the MWs erred on the side of caution. Blissful Herbs has a tea you can drink straight after birth to help prevent PPH and I know there is a tincture you can have on hand too, I'm just not sure what exactly.

Am going to get some stuff from blissful herbs this time I think. I had a 800-900ml know it was 800 or 900 but can't remember which) loss with DS. And will try the placenta smoothie...will have to make myself though I think as DH not keen, he's happy for me to drink it just not make it.

I'm glad I now know what arnica does after this discussion :lol: The list of things I should get on the MAMA website says arnica but I hadn't got around to asking why :p

I'm also glad I can go to them for appointments, because my house is an utter dump at the moment and I'd be scared they'd tell me it wasn't suitable for a HB :redface: I really need to get rid of one of the couches from the loungeroom, move the bookcases, and give the floor a really good scrub. It's too cramped at the moment to get the floor clean enough for my liking. I kick myself every time I go in there, I had the chance to dump that couch but I thought I could make it work. Nope, it's gotta go.

Arnica is the bomb. I took a high dose of it every 20mins after birth then every hour then a few times a day for about a week.

Ah boo. There's going to be a story on homebirth on that Sunday Night show tomorrow. The title is "When Birth Is A Crime" - reckon it's going to be overly positive? The preview says it's about HB gone wrong, and seems possibly sympathetic towards the parents, but it could go either way when it comes to midwives etc... Exactly what I need my mum to see before she meets Kelly on Wednesday :wall: She's the one I have to convince the most. She's supportive-ish but doesn't get why I won't just go to hospital. I'm hoping a good talk with Kelly will set her mind at ease, and I'd prefer her to meet Jan as well. I think she'll respect and listen to Jan a little more because of the age/experience thing...

Teni- I saw the ad for the story as well.. and cant say i believe they will paint home birth in a positive light

BUT I am going to say that whole its sad from what I can see that the police too the baby as part of evidence etc and by the sounds of it in not a nice way I do understand why they needed to take it. I don't believe its a crime but it is a coroners case because the baby passed outside of the hospital environment. My BIL was recently found deceased in his house and it too was treated like a crime scene and he was taken away.
They need to make sure no foul play occurred unfortunately and if it could have been prevented.

Yeah, they do the same with SIDS cases too :( I understand the legal reasons behind it - they need to see if someone's at fault - but they're not always nice about it. The parents (or whoever else is there) are treated as guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around. Awful all around. I just can see this devolving into another HB attack, especially if the parents turn out to be of the opinion the midwives could have done more. Even if they could have saved this baby in particular, not everyone should be tarred with the same brush.

I have yet to see a positive HB story in the mainstream media full stop. which is funny considering that HB success rates far outstrip hospital success rates. ah well.

Teni: do your research on the arnica too. there are some that are not as effective as others (dosage wise) and you want to make sure that you have the right amount. i would ask Kelly at your next appt what dosage they recommend and then go from there :)

Cricket: i dont think the RLT would negatively impact on PPH or suchwhat. My understanding is that it is not recommended so much for women who have had 3 or more babies simply due to risk of precipitate labour (super fast). I was recommended not to take it after DD2s birth as it was under 2 hours. and DD3s even without the RLT was 1h50mins lol. Definately go the arnica! i would recommend a first dose of 200ch and then a second dose the following day of 30ch (that's what i was told would be good). means you have to buy two different lots but seriously it is the best stuff to have around the house for any bumps and bruises. even for babies and kids. i give it to our kids when they take a tumble as it really reduces swelling and bruising.

Also, i remember seeing on Etsy that you can get girls to make up postpartum teas that can help...being that you are over that way it would be awesome to get some! here in Oz we have blissful herbs but not sure on import restrictions.

I highly recommend a herbal suppliment called 5W, I have seen it used on women who had previous PPH's, "grand multi" and go on to have very normal blood loss. It is from NZ and you have to order it from there but it is definitely worth it.

Home birth on The Midwives ABC2!

Thanks for the info on RLT, girls. I will definitely stay away from it! My uterus is efficient enough, considering my first active labour with DD2 was under 3 hrs. Arnica I did take afterwards, but not immediately. Will bear it in mind. From memory my blood loss was less than 500 mL, but I'd have to check my notes to know. Isn't it great that you get all your medical stuff when you have a HB, without even asking.

I'm going to drink RLT by the bucket load then haha

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I highly recommend a herbal suppliment called 5W, I have seen it used on women who had previous PPH's, "grand multi" and go on to have very normal blood loss. It is from NZ and you have to order it from there but it is definitely worth it.

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I'll check into that - thanks!

And I don't need my labour made much more efficient either - the last few have all been under 3 hr, by the time the "real thing" actually starts. Guess I'll forgo the RLT. :) Are there any contraindications for arnica?

I looked into that 5W stuff - I'd never heard of it before. I think its basically the same as the stuff I get from the Meher Clinic on the Sunshine Coast, they have a pregnancy and birthing kit - and you get stuff to take before the birth, during birth, and after birth.

I took the pre birth stuff last time, although I don't think I was very good with taking anything during birth and after birth.

Does everyone think I should take RLT this time around? DD2 was a 13 hour labour but only 4 hours active - and DD3 was a 7 hour labour but only 2 hours active. So I guess it appears that my uterus takes time to warm up a little? Maybe they would have been heaps longer if I didn't take the RLT? Argh now I'm all confused.

Cricket - I don't know anything about Arnica so I can't help you out on that one!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...d=133544752064

Shared eenee, thanks :)

Shared as well. I'm not sure whether I'll watch or not, it's likely going to stressor out way too much, I don't see the point.