Exactly: "if they came with fake tins of formula..." THAT would be a concern I agree... but a bottle in itself doesn't really worry me personally because you could use it as a tool to discuss that the best type of milk to put in it is "mummy's milk".
My DD had Baby Born that came with a bottle... but she has since seen me BF her two brothers so i'm confident that she will naturally follow my lead when she herself is a mum.
Like someone said: childcare/school will most likely have dolls with bottles... you will never be able to eradicate them so maybe it's better to work with 'em. Nothing substitutes playing WITH you child and talking talking talking!
I think as parents we do have right to say what do and don't feel comfortable with regards to our child's play and that will differ between families The bottle one just does not "sit right" with me, but as I said before she does do some boobie feeding along with other types of role play with her dolls, so it kind of offsets those feelings. My main concern at the moment is that she is surrounded by formula feeding more than breastfeeding. As for sword play, I have not problem as she is just imitating what Daddy does, so there she is roleplaying what goes on in our lives.
So much for my little boobie addict anyway, she helps with the bottles at childcare. When the bubs are finished she asks them if they are finished, takes the bottle and puts it away LOL
It's true that I also fed a doll with a bottle when I was young. So in itself, it's probably not too much of a problem. However, it is the combination of factors I believe. The dolls have bottles, babies in children's books, on TV etc are bottle fed, for many children they are surrrounded by ff babies and never see bfing mums. In a family where mum is bfing, a bottle with a doll is probably less of an issue. But there are a larger number of children out there who are not seeing bfing regularly, or at all. For these children, bfing is not a normal activity and therefore they will be less likely to bf (or support their partners in bfing) when they grow up.
I agree with Caro to a point, that there is probably something wrong with most of the toys around. But I do make an effort to avoid the worst ones. And in knowing that the boys will be exposed to things I'm less than keen on (if not at home, then at play group and day care and other people's houses), I make an extra effort to ensure that the behaviour that is modelled for the boys is suitable. Because at the end of the day, what they play with and see on TV will have an influence, but nothing will overshadow the example set by the adults around them.
I love it when the other kids at day care (or elsewhere) watch me bfing. I feel like I'm doing a little bit to help normalise it for them while they are young. I am very proud that the 3yo DD of a friend (who was ffed from birth) recently "bfed" teddy in the playground. Both her parents thought it was because she had watched me bfing Thomas. Luckly they both thought it was a great thing that she has had that influence and is copying it.
ok oscar breastfeeds his 'baby' so this post wasn't towards boys or girls, if you note the original post i said children, only wrote about the girls in the ad.
also i posted this in gentle parenting because i didn't want to post in punching bag because i might offend or not get my point across, or be misread.
and lastly i have regretted posting this at all!
beckles
I don't think that a 2-6yo feeding a baby (with a bottle) is going to have any influence on their baby feeding choices when they are a mother themselves. In fact I'm sure that 90% of the full on pro-breastfeeders had babies with bottles when they were growing up... but that hasn't influenced their choices as an adult.
Just like little boys who play pirates or cops & robbers. It's role playing, but it doesn't mean they will grow up and stab someone with a sword when they are adults.
I'm not keen on my son having toy guns, or even swords for that matter. But I will play it by ear, and won't stress about it if he is given a toy gun.
I think that having values is good... as an adult. I think kids just need to be kids. As they become adults, you can influence their choices in life.
beckles is it Oscars 2nd bday today? just looking at his ticker.. well happy birthday if it is.. i know not the thread topic.. but hey Happy Birthday Oscar!!!
Beckles I am sorry you regret your initial post - I have found the discussion quite interesting.
My initial response was the same as yours, Beckles, but I can also see the POV of boys imitating feeding and the EBM angle. Still, I don't think I would actively encourage bottle feeding a doll, but I guess if it was done in the context of a pro-BF home it would be less of an issue.
I agree don't feel bad Beckles I'm enjoying the thread too, and I think its totally ok for us to disagree (providing its done nicely). I see what you mean, and I'm all for normalising breastfeeding. Maybe dolls should come without bottles (but as an accessory) so that parents have a choice. Because of course as Astrid said some will feel more strongly about it than others, as this thread reflects.
good idea, bottle as an accessory. i have PMT at the moment, am not thinking clearly... i was just surprised at the responses.
i understand some people choose to express and bottle feed or ff or feel that is their only option but i don't believe it should be normalised and i see selling dolls with bottles doing that. i believe that children play to learn about themselves and their world, that it is not a random act and that the only reason is for fun. i believe it is natures intention that play helps children understand their world, because this is my view i guess that is where my annoyance has come from. a child can play school, play car driving, play cooking, play parenting and this then sets them up to go to school, drive a car, cook and be a parent. if they see a toy with a doll such as a bottle then they are more likely to ask about it and role play with it, thus believing this is how feeding a baby is done. advertising has a big impact on how children see the world therefore i would prefer to not fight an uphill battle by having bottles in almost all dolls accessories and i would prefer to be able to buy natural birthing/breastfeeding dolls here and not have to go overseas to do it.
hope this has help people understand why i believe this. thanks for all your responses, that's what makes the world go around.
beckles
Can you still buy chocolate cigarettes? I remember buying a packet of Camels LOL.. and my mum flipped! I can understand why now.. I wouldnt' want DS playing/eating chocolate cigarettes.
So I'm kinda the same.. I don't want to be too strict with what/how DS plays with (will be a hard line to draw - I don't have a prob with water pistols or nerf guns.. but if they war-type guns, and like toy replicas of the real thing I wouldn't let him have it), but I do believe it has an influence. I agree that children do play grown up life.. I mean really - tea parties aren't fun! But they're imitating us sitting down and having a cuppa.. and they learn from observing, and then 'playing' it.
Liz... they no longer have the cigarettes/cigar lollies.
But using that as an example... you had some of those lollies as a kid (as did I and most kids our age!).... so did that inspire you to take up smoking? I know it didn't inspire me to.
Beckles... you shouldn't regret posting this thread. It's been interesting. I think that friendly debate is healthy... so long as it doesn't get personal or nasty. Sometimes it can open some peoples mind a little more. I think this has been an good thread. and happy birthday to Oscar.
Liz, as far as I know you can't buy the chocolate ones anymore (and I used to love them LOL) but you can still get the candy ones from time to time - used to be called 'fags' and are now 'fads'. It is a good comparison to make and I imagine during the heady days of the 80's that it was perfectly acceptable to have children eating these products and pretend they were smoking - I know I certainly did that with them (and I have never been a smoker ) but come the 90's and ther were phased out and had their name changed (in the case of the fags to fads) - just look at all the information and advocating that came about in that era that smoking was harmful - not to put the dangers of smoking in the same category as BF and FF, but you all see what I'm getting at. Maybe something like that needs to be done to encourage BF to be seen as 'normal'?
Jodie - no I didn't become a smoker - but maybe coz my mum made such a fuss about the fake ones? LOL.
But then I'm not inspired to be a smoker by seeing people smoke in movies either, but they're trying to stop all smoking in movies (I think I heard that somewhere), and I agree with that move.
I too am not making a comparison of smoking & bottlefeeding. Just that there must be something to it, that what we are exposed to during childhood, and in general, must have an affect on us as to what we see as 'normal'.
Oh happy day that the heroine of some blockbuster movie declares: "Yes, I'll foil that plot just as soon as I BF my baby" and does so, on the big screen. ETA: Maybe Angelina Jolie could try something along those lines... (OT: anyone know if she is BFing?)
BellyBelly Life Member - Love all your MCN friends
Jun 2004
The Festival State
3,008
i'm a firm believer in only having toys in my house which align with my life ideals. And, I do really believe that unfortunately, having dollies bottles normalises bottlefeeding at a very basic level, and don't believe in dolls coming with bottles.[/quote]
i feel like that too (in theory, cos i have a young baby, so haven't been tested out yet by the "I wants" and "everyone else at kinder has one" etc yet that i guess happens when they get older and are out in the world.
i wonder, even if I buy her toys that align with my life ideals, well, will that make the things that i DON"T buy her, more attractive? ie you always want what you can't have.
getting back to the breastfeeding or bottle fed dolly, i am not sure where i stand on that one, but i do think it would be nice if kids were aware of both methods as options, cos breastfeeding is not easy, and for many reasons, not all women can do it, or do it for as long as they want to. It's a really murky area, not at all black n white. I am still b/f-ing at 8 months into my bub's life, but it has been a struggle for me virtually the whole time. Sometimes the "choice" is made for you too, due to health factors.
So i lean towards teaching a child that there are a few ways of feeding the bubby. I've never had a todller, so for all i know, that might be too advanced for them, but i guess i'm looking for a middle ground.
(E.g i was dead keen on baby slings, to bond etc, but my back and wrists just couldn't cope, so i've had to work out different ways of bonding with my baby, and try NOT to feel like a failure cos i couldn't do the sling/carrier thing.)
I aim to buy my bub dolls made out of fabric not plastic, and more realistic in size and look, but have no idea (until we are actually in the situation) - whether she will throw tantrums about NOT having a highly advertised, highly marketed plastic doll, when she is able to verbalise etc.
I would be more opposed to the bottle along the terms of it being made out of plastic (fumes, landfill etc).
wow, having a baby sure has brought out my concern for the environment! can't believe how much becoming a mum has politicised my thought processes. makes me think about the world my bub will live in when i'm dead and gone.
Gigi: Nah, we won't ignore you, you raised a few interesting points. Having had a 3yo DD and desperately wanting to avoid the highly advertised toys eg Barbie etc I found that it was a minefield and that, at the end of the day I had to "choose my battles" so to speak. Biggest issue was that other people bought them for her and try taking a new Barbie doll off a 3yo. So, as is my way, I tried to turn a negative into a postive and used poor old Barbie as a learning opportunity and 'tool' hehe. I sat down and played "Barbies" with her and during the course of our role play I made sure to point out "oooh Barbie has a very funny shaped body doesn't she? Have you ever seen a lady look like her? Nooooo" etc Anyhow, just a strategy and a warning: you won't be able to control the influences as much as you would like with your children... and sometimes, unfortunately, you'll have to choose your battles and what you think now as being important may kinda be put on the backburner when the time comes.
ETA: you might think that when the times comes you'll just tell everyone not to buy a Barbie doll (for example) but... I found that really hard for many reasons... probably best for another thread... in a nutshell there's only so many toys you can broadcast your "boycott"... people don't see the big picture... ok, so they don't buy a Barbie... they buy a Bratz instead
Last edited by Bathsheba; July 17th, 2007 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
I'm enjoying the thread too, and I think its totally ok for us to disagree (providing its done nicely). I see what you mean, and I'm all for normalising breastfeeding. Maybe dolls should come without bottles (but as an accessory) so that parents have a choice. Because of course as Astrid said some will feel more strongly about it than others, as this thread reflects.
Bookmarks