How can breastfeeding be seen as normal if....

[paradise lost]

o/t - when the last UK census was done (2001) there was a bit of a hoo haa about what the government was doing with all the ethnicity/race/denomonation responses. THat, combined with the geekish desire to see it recognised as a UK religion (which it now is!) meant many of us, myself among them, are marked down, under Faith, as Jedi. Want to join us Cai?

[Jennifer13]

ETA: Maybe Angelina Jolie could try something along those lines... (OT: anyone know if she is BFing?)

I believe I saw in a magazine somewhere that she did? I just googled it and there's heaps about Angelina saying she lost weight after her baby's birth quickly because of breastfeeding. Heaps more stuff as well.

[Liz]

I remember changing my doll's nappy without it having to actually wet the nappy tho. I had imagination

[Liz]

I had a nappy rash doll, now I think about it... but it was pretty dumb, and the cream they provided never worked LOL. So I went back to just playing with her without the bottle.

[Liz]

yeah it had spots on it's bottom that went pinky/red when you gave her a drink, and you had to apply some lotion to get rid of it. LOL. You could see where the spots were all the time tho.. pretty dodgy. I spose it was good for it's day hehe.. talking nearly 30 years ago!

[paradise lost]

My dollies had cloth arses so i'd have been waiting a LONG time for them to pee. LOL. I always wanted a tiny tears then my friend got one and her mum was like "Yes, so when baby wets you must change the nappy, then wash and dry the nappy for baby" and didn't take kindly to the nappy going in the wash with normal clothes (we were about 7 or 8 at the time). Tiny tears stopped getting fed about 3 days later when drying little wet terry nappies got OLD. LOL

I liked the cloth ones better than the hard plastic ones - they're cuddly.

Bec

[Astrid]

Probably coming in a bit late.
For me I see bottles as part of a bigger picture, just because many of us played with bottles as kids and then went on to breastfeed as adults does not mean that it did not have an effect on others. Also there are many things that affect us as children that we do not actually remember.

Even though I was breastfed, I did not see breastfeeding until I was an adult and then only rarely, I thought formula was normal. I played with baby dolls with bottles, mine was called Cry Baby Sue, she cried until you put a dummy in and she had a bottle that the milk would "disappear" when tipped. Had me fascinated. Anyway I chose to educate myself about, pregnancy, childbirth and looking after a baby. That included reading up about breastfeeding and realising how important it was. Now imagine if I had not educated myself?? The bottle I played with as a child was just the starting point to my early belief that babies were always fed with bottles.

I will just repeat it again, as parents we have a say in what our children play with and we may not always agree with other peoples reasons.

[Twin Sister]

I don't have a problem with my kid playing with a doll and bottle. I played with one as a kid and I loved it. (I too had the one where you tip the bottle and the mil diappears) I was bottle fed as a baby becausue I was adopted, but now that I'm an adult I am educated enough to know about breastfeeding and it's benefits and I plan to breastfeed my baby. As long as you educate your kids I don't see a problem with kids bottle feeding a doll.

[Claire]

It's funny I wasn't breastfed nor saw it being done around me growing up. I had dollies with bottles. I've never seen formula feeding as normal - always knew I would breastfeed my children. My sisters did exactly the same thing and have breastfed all their children. For us it's about education, available information and an informed choice as an adult.

[christy]

I'm coming in late too... read a bit of course but haven't had a chance to reply.

I actually get all gooey on the insides when I see Matilda breastfeed her baby doll. She does have a bottle for her doll, but it usually stays in the bottom of the dolly box. She often changes nappies and then sits down where she is to breastfeed (funnily enough though she breastfeeds out her belly button ). I love it... I feel so proud of her when she does it because I love the fact that its natural for her. That is seen as "normal" to her.

[~Flossie~]

Christy - Olivia used to b/f out of her belly button aswell.. so funny to watch

[Bathsheba]

Interesting I agree.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Jelvie - how cool, I never saw a boy play at being Daddy before! All the boys in my Booby Club (ABA local group) play at feeding their babies. It's the loveliest thing watching kids pretend to BF their babies, next to seeing older children BFing, IMO!
I won't be getting any babies with bottles. DS has been bottlefed EBM and will continue to be when I leave him with babysitters (well, he has it out of a sippy cup, so he knows that he can get mummy milk from a cup or bottle when mummy's not there), so it's not bottles per se that I'm against. Yes, whilst bottles are part of our lives, selling bottles with baby dolls normalises bottle feeding over feeding from the breast. Yes, as individual parents we can educate our children about bottles and breasts, but I think that limiting the selling of toy bottles is a good societal move - because not all parents DO let their children know that whilst dolly has a bottle, babies are breastfed, too (thinking of the little girl on the plane with the bottlefed baby brother who was told by her mother to stop looking at me whilst BFing DS...was so sad, I should have turned and said 'it's ok, she can watch, I'd like that').
DS doesn't have many toys, in the scheme of things. He won't need toy guns...we've got rifles in the house (locked up properly, settle down!) and we'll teach him about shooting, as I intend to get my own shooting licence (I'll need it for when we move to a farm one day, for mercy killing and shooting ferals...animals, that is!), if one day I realise my fantasy of learning to fence, then DS might want to imitate that. He likes his real life stuff - at other people's houses, they'll upend a box of toys thinking it will keep him occupied and out of trouble...wrong! Anyway, that's just my philosophy on toys - DS doesn't need a toy to do real life stuff, he'll do real life stuff to real life stuff. Not sure quite what point I was thinking of when I started writing that...
I didn't have dolls that could pee. Yeah, it would have been a novelty to have one, but I don't consider that I missed an important step in anything because of it. I knew that people pee. I knew that babies wear nappies. I even knew that I wore cloth nappies as a baby and it was a huge novelty that my Cabbage Patch kid had a sposie. I would have seen it as more normal to have a cloth nappy. I would like my kids to have cloth nappied dolls! Purely because they'll be cloth wearers too, and it will make more sense to them.
My GF's 3 year old has been prepared for his sibling's arrival by being read a book I lent them, called Fast Food For Ben (from ABA, but written for La Leche League), and he has now taken to thrusting a teddy to his mummy's breast and saying it needs a breastfeed! It's the cutest thing ever - he actually says 'breastfeed'! I suspect he might play act the BFing when bubby does come along.
I cannot, for the life of me, see what is so objectionable about a child emulating BFing by lifting a top or bringing a dolly to the breast.
As for the discussion about feeding someone else's baby, don't get that objection, either. I've got a photo of me feeding my niece, with DS beside me, when my sister took my dad out fishing in NZ. They both needed the time together, as my parents and I live here and my sister lives in NZ with her DH. My niece was too young to go out on a boat, so I stayed behind and assured my sister that if her DD got hungry I would feed her. And I did just that. Neither of us batted an eyelid about it, but her DH thought it was weird. But BFing isn't very normalised in his family. I would never say that my sister's mothering was suspect because she allowed someone else to feed her baby. But I also don't have any qualms about a non-relative feeding my boy, should he be separated from me and need a consolation feed for comfort. If he'll take it, great!
There's more to 'banning the toy bottle' than just telling individual parents they are not trusted to teach their kids about BFing. It's about a broader health and parenting issue that is represented by that bottle, through at least half a century of decimating the natural act of breastfeeding in the public arena, and shaping the warped attitudes towards the most natural thing for a mammal to do in our Western culture.
In Central America, where I have family, they have dolls sold with bottles in shops. Should someone actually be able to afford these toys, they still hold BFing to be natural and normal because people in their village BF and wet nurse - the bottle is seen as a sophisticated thing to use, though. This is a bit of a danger, because it primes people for situations like the one in the Philippines...the West is advanced, and if they do certain things, then we will rise above our backwardness by doing the same. You know what I mean, I won't ram that point home anymore!
So, whilst it may seem like a trivial thing to restrict sales of bottles with baby dolls, there IS a bigger picture.
Time for bed!
Beckles, thanks for the thread

[MantaRay]

Mayaness, I had a similar thing happen to your plane incident. At Jack's old day care I was bfing him when I had gone to pick him up. A little girl (ff) was watching and her mother pulled her away. I said "that's ok, I don't mind her watching" but the mum took her away anyway. Such a shame!! Of course the mum didn't know that I bfed there at least 3 times a day so the little girl got to watch me plenty of times LOL!!

[beckles]

mayaness, well said, totally agree with you. i have bf my sisters/friends babies and they have bf mine when needed. it just wasn't a issue and certainly didn't think twice about it! you sound like my kinda mumma!
beckles

[Roryrory]

If you take the possibility of transmission of AIDS or toxic substances (alcohol, drugs, etc) from the equation, I don't have the slightest idea why anyone would have an issue with someone else BF their baby - I certainly wouldn't have qualms with someone I knew/trusted BF my son.

Jelvie, as for boys emulating their father, I had never thought of Flynn playing with a baby doll to be like his dad, but no doubt he will want to. DH is very involved with Flynn (he is parent-in-charge on the 3 days I work in the office) and will be with bub # 2 (and #3, if we are so blessed ) so I can totally imagine Flynn watching his dad feed his siblimgs EBM and want to do the same with a doll.

[zabel]

well it gets worse...

Jordan's breastfeeding furore.. if it's to be believed, she reckons bottle feeding is the best thing out, wouldn't have it any other way, "I don't care what people say - you don't have to breastfeed ... I don't want a baby drinking from me - the thought of it makes me feel really funny."

Twit.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Rory, the other substances is precisely why I don't want other people BFing my baby. Well, that and the fact that I want all the snuggliness, I don't want DS looking adoringly at a friend. Actually, it would depend on the friend, now I think on it.

Some mums drink alcohol and coke and BF... I chose not to and don't want this in DS's system. Same with nuts; DH is really allergic and I can't ask someone else to list their every snack for the last week... easier not to let someone else feed, I'd be too worried. But as I would happily BF a friend's baby if needed I can't really go with the yik factor, can I?