Feeding on demand vs routine

[meow]

I've never been into the idea of feeding my bubba on a routine set by me as I figure he knows when he's hungry better than I do. It's working fine for us but I've been pondering how routines work lately...

My MIL kept telling me "It gets easier at 6 weeks as you can sleep through because that's when they drop the 2am feed and go from 10pm to 6am". She's realised now she's seen us parent that we demand feed and doesn't say this anymore but as we approach the 6 week mark it has me curious... could my little boy actually go 8 hours between feeds??

He currently wakes to feed every 3-4 hours so I can't imagine it but obviously it's possible as my MIL raised 5 healthy children this way. How would it happen naturally? Would we just wake up after say 6-8 hours one day and realise he'd skipped a feed?

[August]

Hi Ren,

What your MIL said rings true for me as that is what my DS did, he dropped his nighttime feeds one by one, and yes you will wake up surprised that he skipped a feed!As babies get a bit older they start to have one long stretch of sleep somewhere in the 24 hr period. Basically they will sleep through a feed. So if you were feeding 4 hrly that would be 8 hrs of straight sleep.

At 6 weeks old Lucas was feeding 3 hourly, and he started having a long stretch of sleep from 7pm-1am (6 hrs). He used to fall asleep in this little snuggle bed carrier thing in the loungeroom at 7pm, and we would pop him straight into his cot, still asleep in it, when we went to bed, and he would sleep through to 1am.

We were co-sleeping but my DF who has epilepsy needs to have a good sleep to avoid having seizures (so we soon found out) and when DS was 6 weeks old (after camping out in the loungeroom for 2 weeks) I finally relented and put him in his cot in his own room.

Feeding and sleeping during the night before that was a bit more sporatic as he'd wake/stir and I'd feed him but not know what time it was, or how long it had been. But after he started sleeping in his own room I would then get up and feed him regularly every night at 1am, 3am and 5am.

Then, much to my surprise, he dropped the 1am feed first, then the 3am, and then the 5am feed last, and by the time he was 14 weeks old he was sleeping through. We didnt have a routine but with a baby feeding 3-4 hourly you tend to do the same thing at the same time of day like clockwork anyway, and when/if the baby is ready they will drop a feed and sleep for longer.

[Beach Mama]

I was a bit the same, and found that Isabelle was feeding every 3-4 hours and at 8 weeks she started sleeping for around 8 hours a night, for her it was 7 until 3ish, and then by 12 weeks she was sleeping 12 hours a night, from 7-7. We didn't "do' anything she just did this on her own, was gaining weight rapidly and we weren't complaining.

For us it didn't last though and at around 4mths or so she started waking in the night again, at times up to 2-3 hourly overnight until she was 8 mths old. We have always had a pretty great routine, not strict but definate patterns, she is always bathed, fed and in bed at around 7 and she stays awake for the same amount of time during the day before her day sleeps but her nights were terrible. We decided to cut night feeds altogether at 8mths and to comfort her by cuddling, patting etc, but I wouldn't do this with a younger baby.

It really is up to you hun, I think I have waffled on for way to long, but basically if Espen is feeding 3-4 hourly, that is a pretty good routine already, and you might find over time that he starts to stretch out his night sleeping, to 5-6 hours and then gradually longer.
I know girls at MG who used routines like the Save our Sleep ones, (used from around 5 mths) where they would wake bub for a feed at 7, and then have set sleep and feed times thoughout the day, with a dreamfeed and no feeds after 1030 -7. The prescriptive method with these doesn't suit me at all, but I know some people love them (one girl at MG was at her wits end with twins and swears by it ) Anyway, it sounds like you are happy enough doing what you are doing hun, which is taking Espens' lead and using your instinct which is great! If you are happy and bub is happy and growing I wouldn't stress too much about it! If you feel down the track that you would like to add more structure to your day you always can! It's never too late!
Golly Im waffling today - sorry!
Good luck with it all!

[BellyBelly]

My kids never did that, but every babe is different. I wouldn't have any expectations as such so you aren't disappointed if he doesn't automatically drop the feed, and also remembering phases happen and it could all go down the pipes for a while anyway. I found my babes fed heaps more just before they showed signs of illness, before a growth spurt and of course when they felt like they needed more comfort. I think in tiredness and exhaustion routines tempt the best of us but remember this too will pass. I had the worst sleepers, but now, at 6 and 3.5 you have to drag them out of bed or they will just keep sleeping! I think there is so much fuss over getting them into bed when you have to spend the rest of your life getting them out of bed :P

To help you cope in the meantime, find some good support so you can rest too, sleep when baby sleeps and forget the housework and co-sleep as much as you can, so babe has access to the boob and you can keep sleeping.

[boomba]

What Kelly said

Ren Hun you have to do what you feel is right! Myles started sleeping through at about 6 weeks but this only lasted about a month! Then the routine word was put to me by many people dn "teaching" him how to sleep! This has never sat right with us so we didnt sleep train! We feed "on damnd" or when he is hungry so I couldnt tell you if he has dropped feeds or not!


Sorry hope this makes sense i am bit all over the place this morning!

You do what feels right for you and bub! Good luck xx

[Lucy]

My babies were all breast fed by their needs not by the clock. But I can recall with Charlie and Lexie that they did "drop a feed" at around the 12 week ish mark. (For the life of me I can't remember with Olivia: it was too much of a blur!)

Charlie had an evening/bedtime "routine" of bath, boob and bed at around 7pm, then would wake around 11ish for a boob. At about 12 weeks he droped this to wake at around 3am instead, BUT then woke again for a big feed at around 6am.

Lexie, had an evening/bedtime "routine" of bath, boob and bed at around 6.30pm, would wake at around 1am for a bood, then again at about 4am. This did my head in for weeks, LOL! But then at around 13 weeks, she didn't wake for that 1am feed, instead waking at around 3am, & then not again till around 8am.

Bear in mind these times are very approximate.......the only reason I know them is that I have checked my blogs for them both......

[meow]

Thanksfor your replies. I'm not considering a routine for us- we're doing great and I'm coping well. I don't feel overly tired anymore andon the weekends I hand him to my H to settle so I can go straight back to sleep and get in maximum snoozing

I was just curious if this dropping a night feed was at all a natural pattern- seems it often is too. The only baby I really know their sleep patterns is my niece and she was waking every 2 hours for 11 months- so we're already doing way better than that thankfully!

[MantaRay]

Ren, I agree that they are all different. Both my boys were bfed and DS1 started sleeping through from 6 weeks, DS2 didn't drop that 2am-ish feed until 12 months, and that was with a dream feed! Just go with the flow and see what happens - if he drops the feed early well and good, if not, know that it will happen one day. FWIW, DS1 might have been sleeping through early, but stopped sleeping much at all at night at 7 months. Whereas DS2 would wake for a feed and go straight back to sleep, and now sleeps through. So DS2 ended up giving me more total sleep despite the slower start. I think it's swings and roundabouts.

[meow]

Ah yes- good point mantaray. My sister said that after a year her daughter is now sleeping wonderfully but now the other chidlren from her mother's group who used to sleep no longer do!

I'm feeling like I can manage the sleep how it is for a long time (not that I'd say no to 8 hours sleep ) so I guess if we stick with this I can hope for lots of sleep later!

[Sammiejane]

REn, Molly Jane dropped a feed last week and it has been the nicest surprise!
I have totally demand feed (despite all those people saying that i should not let her rule my life) and it has worked well and i agree she knows when she is hungry more than i do.
The last 4 nights she has slept from approx 8-9pm to 4-5am!!! last night it was 9pm to 5am, the first night i was in agony though and had to get up to express a bit off as it was so painful, but i have found that thats has settled too.
Still every night i expect her to go back to needing her 2am feed!
Coincidentally i started wrapping her again (stopped 3 weeks ago as she was kicking out of it with wind) and she started sleeping longer from that night - i put it down to the wrapping, but maybe she was just ready to drop a feed? dont know
Good luck

[leebee81]

Oliver is demand fed and his night feeds have been naturally spacing out more and more. Occasionally he will sleep 8 hours, once or twice lately he has slept 10 hours, but usually he wakes after 6 hours for a feed. He doesn't really have set feed times (they are all over the place) and I don't take notes so I don't know if he has 'dropped' feeds or if he just feeds more before bed and when he wakes up to compensate.

I agree that he knows his tummy best so I just go with what he wants.

[Willow]

I was the same, just went with the flow this time regarding night feeds in the *hope* that eventually he would drop night feeds when he was ready...ummm, still waiting 6 months later!! He feeds at 10pm (sometimes only makes it to 9pm lately...) 1.30am and then about 5am. After 6 months I have to admit it's killing me. I'm a bit disappointed at this point that demand feeding overnight hasn't really 'worked out' for us, I'd like to be getting more sleep by now. With DD I encouraged her to drop the middle of the night feed at about 4-5 months, I just resettled instead and that seemed to work with her. DS just screamed the house down when I attempted to resettle him last night. I'm outta ideas!

So I just wanted to say I think you should decide what works for you and got with that, rather than going along thinking eventually he will 'do it himself' because not all of them do and then you might have to come up with a plan B. I do think it might be a bit unrealistic at 6 weeks especially.

But maybe I'm just one of the unlucky ones! LOL.

[meow]

I do think it might be a bit unrealistic at 6 weeks especially.

This is the bit that I still don't really get... as I said my MIL raised 5 children this way so they obviously didn't die (though I think they have attachment issues- but that may not be related to their night time feeds) but it seems so young to impose such a routine IMO. Hence why I wondered if it's possible to happen naturally for demand fed babies.

[Sammiejane]

Ren - Molly Jane did it nauturally... last night she slept from 9pm to 3am and then woke for a feed.

She cluster feeds in the evening from about 5.30 -6pm, my guess is she is preparing for an over night sleep session, we did nothing to encourage this, just followed her lead (she knows what she wants and needs IMO)

[meow]

You're blessed Sammie! Espen was feeding more like every 2-3 hours yesterday and last night. Hopefully he'll stretch them out a little again!

[MantaRay]

I do believe it will happen naturally in most cases. They just have different needs. Jack could go all night without a feed from early on, but even now doesn't eat much. Tom on the other hand needed the night feed until he was a year old, he just couldn't get through the night without it (not often anyway, there was the odd night!). And even now he is a big eater - during the day he can barely last between meals - he just needs to eat often (as do I btw, here I am eating lunch at 11am bcos I just can't wait any longer LOL). It's just their make up. "Training" them to not have the feed might work in the short term, but I suspect that down the track it can potentially cause other issues. My advice is to stick with the demand feeding while it is working for you. If you get too exhausted down the track you can look at other options then.

[Willow]

MR - what are the other options? I just don't know what to do with this boy so I'm open to anything right now! The thought of doing these night feeds for another 6 months fills me with dread. I just want to get a bit more sleep. And when I go back to work in Sept I'm going to NEED more sleep. I'm hoping that the introduciton of solids will help but everyone keeps telling me it won't.

I was happy to go with his lead but it just doesn't seem like there's any end in sight!

He's always been a big hungry boy, maybe I just need to accept that that's the way things are and give up on the idea of sleep for now.

Sorry to hijack Ren...

[MantaRay]

Willow, it is hard isn't it. I know I was the same when Tom was waking every night, but at least it was just for a quick feed and then straight back to sleep. Not like Jack when his sleeping started getting out of control!!

Firsly, are you giving him a dream feed? If not that might be worth a try. I used to dream feed Tom and this would mostly cut his night wakings down from 2 to 1. Or, otherwise, the way I see it, you have a few options. You can continue feeding him. Or you can get your DH to give him a bottle/cup, at least every second night so you take it in turns. Or you can night wean - try settling instead of feeding and if that fails give him water and not milk. Sometimes that works best if you go away for the night so they know they can't have mum and her bbs. If you go down that path, I would try and give him an extra feed before bed.

WRT solids, I agree that it is no a magic cure. I found that at first it made Tom sleep worse. In fact 3 of us in my baby buddies group found the same thing at the same time. Tom loved solids and reduced his milk intake, then was needing more milk in the night. I cut his solids back down and he went back to his old sleeping habits.

BUT time does help. At some point - it could be tomorrow, next week or in 6 months, he will not need that feed any more. It's just a matter of whether you can wait that long!