thread: Day 3 Transfer 5 cell embie, any chance at all?

  1. #1
    Registered User

    Jan 2005
    1,271

    Day 3 Transfer 5 cell embie, any chance at all?

    Some of you may already known that I did an Antagonist cycle for the very first time. Seems the result is not ideal and we got our lowest number of eggs ever, 6. 4 of them are mature and 3 fertilized on Day 1. Today my Day 3 report is: 1 x 8cell, 1 x 5 cell and 1 x 2 cell.

    From my past cycles, I've always done Day 5 Blastcyst transfer, given its low number this time, I suggest to have a Day 3 transfer. From experience, on Day 3, embyros with above 6 cells are more likely to develop into a blastcyst, so I thought I'd transfer the 5 cell one on Day 3 and still leaving a chance for the 8 cell one to develop and if we are lucky, we will have one to freeze.

    I know I am taking a risk here of losing a 8 cell embryo, but if its not fit to develop into a blastcyst, its not good in the first place. Do you think my rationale is sound?



    Also, are there any presidence that Day 3 embyro with 5 cell can develop into a healthy baby? I know a lot of ladies here got their BFP from a Day 3 transfer but not sure how many cells it has. The embryologist said the 5 cell is not too bad given what they are expecting on Day 3 is 6 cells.

    Transfer is 1pm today and FS will discuss this with me but I want to prepare for my opinion. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. TIA!

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Mar 2008
    mid north coast, nsw
    1,644

    Cuddlepie...wishing you luck with this cycle. I am far from an expert with this, as I have only had one stim cycle..I had only three fertilised eggs, and ended up with one blastocyst to transfer and one to freeze. On Day 3 I only had one with 8 cells...so one of my others (I think one was 7, or maybe 5- i just know it was an odd number not even- and one was 4) caught up...I dont know which one ended up being our frostie...but I have a feeling it might have been the slower one, because they actually froze it the next day (after my day 5 transfer) and mentioned how it had caught up.
    I understand you thinking that embryos have a better chance inside the body than out, hence transferring the 5 cell and hoping the 8 cell will go on survive to be frozen, giving you two chances.
    To be honest, I would probably want to transfer the strongest one though, just to increase my chances of success with the fresh transfer
    There is always the chance if one is frozen, it wont survive the thaw.
    And like you say, the strongest embryos do make it to day 5

    I hope i havent just confused matters further. In the end, I guess your FS will be well placed to give you educated advice and assessment.
    I hope this cycle brings that BFP!

  3. #3
    Random Act of Kindness Recipient
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    Jul 2008
    Gold Coast
    692

    Hi CP,
    Please don't give up hope or feel discouraged yet. I just wanted to give my opinion, which echos Possum's, if it was me I would transfer the best embie available at Day 3 (actually I normally transfer 2 so would do the 8 cell and the 5 cell). It is possible that either could make it to blast, but I wouldn't want to risk the chance of it not thawing and I think fresh is alway best. I have also read plenty of cases where even 2 cell embies on a day 2 transfer result in a BFP. I am hoping and praying and wishing with everything that this cycle is a success, what ever you decide. BOL and big hugs. xx

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Jan 2005
    1,271

    Thanks Possom for you prompt reply. That really help. I know where you are coming from.

    The only thing is that I don't respond well on Fresh cycles, my body doesn't like to be poked and expected to perform I guess. My last 3 fresh cycles are all failure and it was the FET gave me the very frist BFP, I think my body is more natural and relaxed. So I have to say I have more faith in FET rather than fresh. But again, you never know. Thats the game we are playing with isn't it?

    Good to know you stat, it helps hun.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Feb 2008
    Melbourne
    1,021

    Cuddlepie - I am due to give birth to a Day 3/6 cell embryo any day now. So my bubs is living proof that it can work!

    GL!

    Janie xxx

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Dec 2007
    1,039

    CP don't loose hope!! My bubby on board is a day 3, 5 cell embie.....It can happen. I had two 5 cell embies put in. Any chance of trying 2? I think I remember you saying you prefer one - which is totally understandable. I have always had better results with fresh cycles but everyone is different and many many people have very successful frozen cycles. What does FS/lab think? I would guess they want to transfer 8 cell? I think I'd go with the 8 cell but I totally understand your reasoning for the other option too. It is really tricky.

    gorgeous twin..I know you can do this don't loose hope yet...
    Rach xx

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Mar 2008
    mid north coast, nsw
    1,644

    I know what you mean about being more relaxed with the FET...i had my BFP from a FET also...however, they do say you have the same chances either way, and who knows what reasons led to your BFP that time. You're right, in some ways it is a guessing game.
    Hopefully you will have one to transfer and one to freeze whichever way you go!

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Jan 2008
    Gold Coast
    479

    A hard decision CP and I can imagine with all the different options going through your head a confusing one too.

    I think the problem is we all respond differently and our little embies behave differently as well. You most definitely have a chance with a 5 cell, day 3 embie though..no doubt at all there.

    My last cycle which you know was antagonist...we had a slow embie that they thought wasn't going to be any good and it just took an extra day than the rest and it caught up and made it to blastie.

    Personally, if I was in your shoes I would transfer the best embie and try to freeze what I could after that. But this is totally based on our results in the past. We have lost over 60% of embies in the thawing process over our cycles. Many of which were blasties as well. So it seems our little ones just don't like to be frozen. So based on my experience with our embies I wouldn't like to take the chance to possibly lose the strongest embie.

    But I also hear what you are saying about your body perhaps responding better to a FET. My 1st cycle ever resulted in a BFN and then the next cycle doing a FET I got a BFP and I am of the firm belief that it was beccause my body hadn't been through so much to prepare for the frozen TF. I think that it was really just my time with this pregnancy now though as I was so sick from the OHSS and these 2 fighters have battled on through countless hiccups. Who knows why our bodies respond so differently from one cycle to the next

    My advice...talk seriously to your FS this afternoon about all your concerns and all your options and know that whatever decision you come to is the right one for you based on your body and your experiences. There is definately no right or wrong decision to be made here, just one that you and DH have to be happy with. And don't let the FS talk you into something you don't feel comfortable doing.

    So hope I haven't confused you more.

    Looking forward to seeing what happens this afternoon.

    Always thinking of you and praying this is the one.

    Hugs Bel

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Dec 2005
    6,706

    Cuddlepie, I think the reason they suggest transferring on day 3 due to low numbers of embryos is simply because no matter how fantastic the conditions in the lab are, they can't make them the same as your uterus.

    I was a bit like you - had only ever been pregnant from frozen blast transfers... had managed that three times, but just couldn't get them to stick.

    When we finally got through a fresh cycle without OHSS so I could actually transfer, we only got three embryos to fertilise and like you I was devestated. We chose to transfer on day 3 (one embryo, the other two were frozen that day as well) but I was convinced that it wouldn't work out. We put an 8 cell embryo back and Sam's sleeping in the next room as evidence that frozen blasts are not the be all and end all of IVF.

    Perhaps trying something different could be the way to go?

    I personally think it's probably better to put back the embryo that has the best chance of giving you a pregnancy - the 8 cell - and give the others a little more time to catch up. There's no guarantee that just because an embryo couldn't make it to blast in the lab that it couldn't have done so in the uterus. There's no way of testing that at all.

    BW

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Jan 2005
    1,271

    Oh thank you so much for your contribution, that was really helpful and I was able to read them before I went in, I just didn't have time to post.

    Now, I am back after 4pm Acupuncture session. I did went with my gut feeling and proposed to FS my thought of transferring 5-cell and let the 8 cell keep developing. He is fine with it and he said normally they wouldn't do that but given the number of embryos atm he is happy for me to do that. Also the embryologist supported my rationale and she thinks there is fairly good chance of the 8 cell keep doing what its suppose to do and the 5-cell on day3 is definitely not a no-hoper.

    Well, now it is really in God's hand, I am happy with my decision, and for once, I made the decision, so I feel good about it. Wait till later on it all crashing down on me...

    We will hear the result for the 8-cell on Saturday whether it is frozen or not, but I am not too stressed about it. I think Im pass the point of being devastated for this cycle. Obviously it did not yield the best outcome and for future planing, I will go back to down-reg protocol unfortunately.

    While I was at SIVF, I've also made an appt with FS in late April just to plan what the next step is, I will suggest to do more tests such as implantation etc etc. How efficient I am and how negative I am towards this cycle!

    At the same time, I do hold on the hope that uterus is better than the lab and the dish and I hope my 5-cell will flourish and give me a surprise!

    thanks again everyone!

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Aug 2008
    Melbourne
    1,539

    CP - I'll be cheering your 5 cell embryo - I hope it sticks and you have a frozen blastie for the future.

  12. #12
    Registered User

    Jan 2008
    Gold Coast
    479

    Am so happy you got to make the decision CP. Don't doubt your decision at all. It was obviously the right thing for you to do as I truly believe everything happens for a reason.

    And a big congrats on the little one on board. I will be hoping and praying the little 8 cell embie powers on for future children.

    Thinking of you and cheering you on all the way.

    Hugs Bel
    xxx