IVF with PGD

CP - yaay at getting some goodies to put back. May at least one be THE one to go all the way.

You are also our last hope for xmas BFP as I am most defnitely out. The fat lady started singing today. Not unexpected at all after yesterday but I am still totally crushed by the whole thing.
The "getting" pg part hadn't been our biggest hurdle in the past so now I am faced with the trouble to actually get a pregnancy, let alone try and keep it.
Managed to beg and plead and appt with FS for Mon so feel a touch better that at least can discuss things soon and prob start another cycle in the new yr.
Also had a good chat with my nurse and the PGD scientist. Both seem to think our results "genetically" were actually very good ( for age group) so an option for us may be just to go to plain IVF with day5 transfer to help weed out any abnormals. Still about 20% chance of putting abnormal one back in but better than IUI odds ( maybe around 40%). I am still concerned why we lost so many embies , well all really - none frozen and none stuck. I CAN get pg so unlikely to be and implantation issue. Seems this time, we just had no good embies. Did the PGD do some damage? Do our embies not like the whole IVF/lab conditions? Did we just have a dud cycle? Questions I don't think anyone can answer but I am going to get a call from embryologist to hopefully give me some insight as to whether our loss of embies could be considered within the relms of "normal" or if anything else can be done.
Sigh.... looks like I'll be joining the January brigade. 2009 HAS to be a better year. 2008 has been the pit of all pits!

Meredith :comfort: sorry about the HPT result. Don't mean to sound dumb, but is the fat lady AF? If so double :comfort: The last two stim cycles I have felt so BLAH the day AF arrived. Humongous headache which I think is the hormones crashing. I hope you are not having that. I am glad you have squeezed in with your FS on Monday. It will be good to enter the New Year with an idea of what the next step is, what direction you will take. Like you I have been wondering about PGD damage, etc. I am also wishing I was with a clinic which did Day 3 PGD (even though I have read and respected the whole reason SIVF do it on Day 5). I just think the body is the place for these little beans. I can't ever imagine having two blasts to transfer on Day 5. This whole IVF cycle has shown you are very fertile, so chin up, hon. I truly believe you will get there!

Cuddlepie - I am THRILLED THRILLED THRILLED for you! :dance: Congratulations Ms PUPO :dance: I will join in the chant for your Christmas BFP :pray:

Sara - sorry about your stressy week. Are you getting a decent break over Christmas?

Buliej and Lisa :hello:

BW - hope you are putting your feet up and getting some sleep (while you still can) ;)

AFM - Cramped like crazy yesterday afternoon, though spotting was minor. Bit worried about having a low estrogen level on Day 10 (yesterday) and how it will have affected my follicle growth. Clinic had told me AF can be late the cycle after IVF so maybe that has messed things up further. Then I read on the Net that pineapple causes cramping and not to use it after transfer (Cuddlepie take note). Maybe this is where I went wrong post-transfer because I ate about 1/4 of one afterwards and REALLY cramped the next day. So I am now off pineapple juice (which I have pretty much swum in for the past six months). My goodness I to and fro with this whole TTC business! Meanwhile a girl at playgroup today announced she was pregnant with No.3 and I hear about another IVF couple who are now pregnant with quads :o

Cuddlepie - Fingers crossed for a BFP:dance:


Meredith- My deepest sympathies, I have only had one failed IVF but even that was devistating, I did not think for one second that I wouldn't be pregnant with a little girl now.

I did read an interesting website the other day from the CSIRO saying that they believe that IVF and even further PGD damages eggs and creates more problems then it fixes. Will try to find it again and let you all know.

Have a wonderful weekend ladies

Hi ladies, thanks for all the well wishes and have been feeling quite tired and lying down a lot with back pain...

Meredith, I am so devastated this cycle didn't work out, I know how much you put into this. Its more frustrating when you didn't have a problem of 'getting pregnant'. Seems the whole process makes you wonder whether it is solving the problems or adding more complications. I think all your doubts are valid. It actually makes me wonder as well. Glad that you manage to have an early appt with FS to discuss next step. The option of simply doing IVF sounds quite good to me, especially they've done one round of PGD and can gather some ideas how genetically sound of your embies. That would give me a lot of confidence of doing IVF for the next round. So at least that is one very important insight coming out of this PGD cycle and I hope this will be a foundation for you to find some answers. :hug:

Lisa K, that article sounds interesting, would love to have a read when you find. I hope you are doing alright in this silly season.

]WTH, thanks for the advice about pineapple, I had some today so I will try to control the intake. A couple pregnant with quads? :jawdrop: As much as I love a big brood, I don't how can I cope with that - just the pregnancy part. I am actually quite scared of being pregnant with twins (here is some positive thinking :rolleyes:)

Sara, how are you going? I hope work will soon be quiet down, I know everyone is trying to dump stuff before Xmas, its a bit mad out there hey? Hope you are in good spirit.

Buliej, I sincerely hope you are right about two will have more chance...hope you are doing well

WLAB, :D you funny drunken girl, well, I think I will just have to listen to your order and take 'cosmopolitan' off my drink list...damn..

BW, well done for making it to maternity leave, YAY!

WTH - Oh sorry, just hate naming the darn wwitch but yes, AF ( or the very early start of AF) has shown her face today. Feel a bit like crazy woman today - up and down like a yo-yo which i am sure is the hormonal dive. Like you, I am so confused about all the pros and cons of all this stuff. Every cycle seems to bring new complications and raises more questions. Wish I lived in ignorant bliss and let the Drs just decide but it aint that easy!

CP - give your belly a rub and tell those bubbas hey need to snuggle on in.

Lisa - That article does sound interesting. Would love to read it but probably just going to scare me more

Did talk to head embryologist today and perhaps feel a touch better. She didn't seem to think our "drop off" was unusual. Said it can be very individual to each couple and each cycle. A point she made that I guess I hadn't really grasped, is that from any one stim cycle, you can only expect 1 or 2 embies ( no matter how many you start with) that could potentially become live babies. So even getting some frozen doesn't mea that many or any would ever produce a child. In 12yrs, she said the most "cihildren" produced from one batch of embies (fresh and frozen) was four and that was only one couple in 12yrs ( and probably a lot younger than all of us!). So truly, it IS a numbers game and guess we just have to keep going through this until the right one comes up. Also found out that quite a few of our embies did grow on to blast by day5 or 6 but some were missing inner cell mass (part that becomes embryo) - so not viable and oters just starting to degnerate so not suitable for freezing. One of our PGD abnormal ones also made it to blast so does reflect the risk in a non- tested cycle.
Will need to speak to FS on Monday but going by my conversations with all the staff today, we are probably going to go with just straight IVF next cycle but brave the wait to a day 5 transfer. Our PGD cycle did at least show that we produce more "norma""l than abnormal embies, at least for the chromosomes tested .If we are still getting some duds for other genetic/developmental factors, then PGD isn't going to help pick them out.

Hi,

Sorry early morning rant.....

Off camping this weekend and determined that my main concern will be that the stupid rain stops ;)

Not sure if I should throw that in the mix but when I was talking to the scientist asking if I could also do a screen for chromosomes missing she said that it quite often happens that there are false positives so that you're losing embryos that are perfectly fine - not sure if you want to do down that path Meredith but it may be worthwhile to check if there is any chance your blasto when had tested positive could be a false positive?

I will have to do down the PGD path since the whole point of IVF is to exclude embryos which have my bad gene, so the whole discussion scares me a lot and I need to try to think about the "Stopsigns" so that I not despair about it.

Just got a copy of the letter that my FS wrote to my GP yesterday and it droves things a bot home. Maybe I should change FS, she just is so negative. It says that I had a very poor response to FSH and that she hopes the next cycle will bring and adequate response and "hopefully" EPU and PGD testing. While this is my hope as well, my ultimate goal is not to just do testing but to actually get pregnant.

Meredith: I am really sorry that the witch showed. Hope your appointment on Monday helps you to see a way forward, the information from the embryologist sounds helpful.

Cuddlepie: There's the spirit, get off the cosmo :p yes work is certainly mad out there, make sure you don't let them stress you as well.

WTH: Yes I am talking two full weeks off over Christmas and can't tell you how much forward I look to that. Pregnant with quads urrghh that sounds a bit much, hope they have their family close by. Understand about the girl in the playgroup announcing she is pregnant with No 3, it's just really heartbreaking when other people seem to have it so easy. Do you have date when you'll be starting in Jan or is it also dependent on when AF arrives?

Buliej, Lisa & BW: Hope you're doing well and have a great weekend.

Sara

Sara - My lab states about 10% chance of false -ve or +ve so can work either way. Yes, we could have "discarded" a good embie and we could also have put back in an abnormal one. I can't think that far into it though, as we will never know and the test is only as good as it is. If you do a blast transfer in just plain IVF cycle, there is 20-25% chance of the blast actually being abnormal with potential to create pg so I guess paired with PGD the risk is certainly significantly reduced.
HOwever, given our stats from this cycle and that most of our abnormal embies wouldn't have even been able to get to implantation stage, we will most likely take our chances without the PGD next time. Save some money to be able to do more cycles if necessary and maybe save some embies from unnecessary damage. I am trying to look at the positive spin to this crushing failed cycle and I guess that was learning that we should still have plenty of good embies left in us..... just have to get the right one to stick!
I can understand you being upset by reading that letter. Makes it sound so harsh. I think if you have any doubts about your FS, you should at least have an appt with another to hear their take on things.
Realistically, you've only had ONE try at IVF and certainly not worthy of a "right off" without knowing how you will respond to different drug protocol

CP - hope you are travelling along ok. You ARE 3 weeks pg!

WTH - have fun this w/e!

Buliej, LisaK - hope you girls are ok

Sara, the rain sure stopped for your camping, its too hot today! Anyway, i hope you are having fun.

About the FS, it sounds a bit harsh the way she described it, like Meredith said, it is only your very first cycle. But sometimes I think they like to throw us into 'older age women group' and overlook the individual case. See how next cycle goes, if you still have doubt, maybe start to shop around for 2nd opinion. You knew the process I've been through earlier regarding changing FS, he did brought a lot of new things on the table which has never been discussed with my old FS, even the way he does procedures is very different from the previous one. So I guess my learnings from this is 'Every FS has his/her own approach and style, you never know which one suits you better until you try it. Good luck hun!

Meredith, I like the way you said that I am 3 weeks pregnant! Give me so much hope! Thanks! I have been feeling quite concerned as I still have a bit of cramp and feeling tight in the lower abdominal area. I've never had this in the past transfers. So just called nurse and she said its quite normal and could be part of the side effect 'pregnyl boost injection' I had. Its not severe or anything but its there just to make me worries. I fear that my body is not in top shape then the embryos won't be able to implant. Anyway, I hope it will get better soon.

Also I agree with your theory, seems doing IVF with 5 day transfers at least have some quality controls on filtering stronger / healthier embryos and it does resolve your DH's worry to some extent. I hope you find the middle road to keep going hun!

Good night everyone!

Happy Monday all ;)

Cuddlepie - I think the cramping is mean't to be a good sign. Realistically, it could very well be implantation cramping. Maybe with two beans in there you might notice it more?? Can't help but get my hopes up for you :stickyvibesgirl: :stickyvibesboy:

Meredith - I was interested that you are considering not doing PGD next time. The SIVF brochure says 2/3 are normal by Day 5. Starting to wonder about this myself. But then I see all the sigs on IVF threads with MC at 8 weeks, etc. It might be wrong of me but I automatically assume it must be chromosonal (as it is 50% of the time). So if they did PGD it might not have happened. But then, if they did PGD a good one might get damaged or discared. It is all such a toss up.

Sara - I agree with Cuddlepie and Meredith about perhaps getting a second opinion. I suppose you would need a new referal from your GP to see a different FS and it might be difficulat to arrange both appointments at this time of year. Certainly, I would do so if the next cycle does not pan out for you. My IVF cycle will start as soon as AF comes. :crossfingers: it does not come on Dec 31 as I cannot do AM blood test on Jan 1 (pub hol) and so would be commencing Orgulatron cycle on Day 3. Think that might lower the follie no. In any case, starting in around two weeks and once again, no down reg :D

Lisa - very interested in that article. Seems the negatives about IVF's don't make the news (the IVF factories have much better PR units). I wonder if it damages eggs in future cycles (eg, the cycle after IVF). I am counting on my follies being better this cycle from the two months of stims which is why we are trying naturally...

AFM - had a great weekend doing lots of fun stuff. Can't believe it's over. Oh, and we BD, too :redface:

Hi WTH, I like your theory of trying it naturally after two stim cycles. They did say that the drugs sometimes could be in your system for a while. And there are a few cases of trying IVF with no avails and got pregnant naturally when on a break, so I am hope the miracle will once again proved in your case. I think we will be doing the same if this cycle doen't work out, will be trying naturally in Jan before doing a FET in Feb.

Hello for other ladies and will pop in later on!

Sara,
One of the things that several people said to me while I was doing PGD was that not very much was known about the best methods for egg collection from non-infertile women. And that they were still building up that body of knowledge.
I don't think I would be seeking a second opinion yet as long as your FS has some ideas that make sense to you about what they would try differently next time.

Your FS is just thinking in steps - once they are able to get some embryos for testing then there is a pretty good chance that you will be able to become pregnant without further challenges. If not then they will deal with that when they get there. It can sometimes feel like you are a little thing on a production line in a factory though...

hope camping went well!
Kate

Meredith,
I am very sorry that your no-holds-barred effort didn't work out. Best of luck with your next plan of attack.
hugs
Kate

Hi,

Hope everyone had a great start to the week. My camping went very well, we did walks along forsest, cliffs and beaches for two days, swam on the beach, camped under the stars and full moon and as a result I now feel much better.

Cuddlepie, Meredith, WTH and Knm: Thank you so much for your advice to my early morning rant. I've decided to just go with my FS for the next cycle, if that doesn't go well may try Dr Lok.

Meredith: Thinking of you today, hope your appointment goes well. I understand that you may want to go without PGD, just wonderign what is the price difference? I've never asked since it wasn't an option and it's not a separate item on my bill.

Cuddlepie: Keeping fingers crossed the cute little piglets are safe and warm in their new home.

KMn: Thanks for your advice, made me feel much better.

WTH: Yes, I am also really scared AF comes on Dec 26 and or Jan 1.When I talked to the nurse she said if it comes on Dec 25 or Dec 31 to call them as you can come in any time of the day not only in the morning. But you know, I go with CP on that one, hoping that your weekend activity pays out so that AF won't show her face for the next 10 months.

From my hormonal up and downs over the last week actually wondering if AF will show her face this week with some spotting, in that case I'd have to wait for the next one after that, would be much happier about that outlook.

Sara

Evening all.

Sara - glad you had a nice w/e. Hope AF shows soon so your next cycle gets you right on track for IVF next yr. BTW, the PGD component of our cycle was $2100.

CP - hope you are feeling ok. On the home stretch now darl!

WTH - hope your "efforts" over the weekend bring some good news!
I wouldn't stress if you need to start FSH on day3. My clinic routinely starts all antagonist cycles on day3.
We have defnitely decided not to do PGD next cycle although part of me would still like to for the "saftey". Mostly I guess, our decision is made because we did actually learn something from the last cycle. We had a bit over 60% normal embies which is on par with most women in my age bracket and not to bad odds really. Also, of the abnormals, only 1 of the 5 could have actually implanted and become a pregnancy (then to be miscarried). We had no abnormalities that could have progressed and maybe resulted in a need for termination ( which is apparently "abnormally good"!). We do not actually know why our "normal" embies failed. Maybe we have other issues not able to be picked up by PGD ( hence, it is not THE answer to getting a healthy pg), but also,no one can rule out the actual PGD process itself. If we just do "plain" IVF and go to day5 then we should be able to reduce our odds of putting back an abnormal to no more than 20% which, at this point, I accept as an acceptable risk if it means I may stand a better chance of actually getting pg ( and we can save some $$ to allow for more cycles). I think I was a bit naive but I really thought this whole process would work for us. Even if we didn't get pg first time, I expected 1-2 frozen embies ( given our large starting nos) to at least try again. I am still not sure whether we are making the right decisions but it seems to be a reasonable option given the info we have.

My FS appt went ok this morning. Don't know that she had any more to offer than the embryologist or PGD scientist. She did, however, feel a bit more strongly than them that the PGD biopsy may have led to some of our losses. She also thinks, that maybe my borderline overstimulation may have led to poorer egg quality. It was defnitely one of my concerns so a note to all you ladies wanting to see large egg numbers.... it does sound great but no help at all if they are not top notch quality.
Next cycle my FSH will be dropped to 150 and we will aim for about 8-10 more mature eggies ( rather than 20 with a lot being immature.). If this doesn't work, we may go back to OI/IUI for a bit as at least we were getting pg this way. We would just be taking our chances of getting a "good" one
Another interesting fact my FS told me when discussing getting frosties etc ( hopefully will do next time!). Apparently, they ( at MOnash) and researchers in Japan, are finding they are getting better pg rates with frozen blast transfers. No one has figured out quite why but poss some women aren't as "receptive" to pg after a stim cycle. In Japan, they are starting to freeze ALL blasts and only doing frozen transfers. Sounds interesting but would still scare me to much to not do a fresh transfer.

So, I will be joining you all in Jan for another lap of this rollercoaster. GIven I don't cycle naturally, I will just take provera to bring on bleed and start another antagonist cycle around 15th Jan...... counting the days already!

Interesting information there, Meredith. At one point when we'd lost three from three pregnancies, we started asking our FS about PGD, and despite how things were looking he advised against it - particularly because it can't check for all chromosomal problems, and he suspected that continuing to grow our embryos to blast stage and then freezing them and doing frozen transfers was our best bet. At that point in time it had been our only option with the continual hyperstimulation we were dealing with.

Strangely enough, though, I think the answer for us was in reducing the hyperstimulation and egg numbers and getting slightly better quality. After having collections of 26 and 32 eggs, ending up with 4 and 7 blastocysts and only having two from each cycle thaw and be able to be transferred... It does say a lot about the filtering process we were going through... but on the next cycle we got the numbers down to 20, still had quite a few immature eggs (my levels were getting a bit borderline on getting a fresh transfer in, so they took me to EPU a day or two early - I simply wasn't going to cope with another hospitalisation from OHSS!) We only got three fertilise so we couldn't grow to blast, but one is kicking me now, and the other two are waiting in the freezer... Which goes to show that sometimes the answer you believe you are striving for isn't necessarily the only answer out there. I certainly believe there's something to be said for aiming for the best quality eggs possible and minimising the handling of them to reduce the potential for lab procedures to damage them.

I still have a vague feeling that my miscarriages were caused by not being on the right doses of the right meds at the time rather than anything else.

I hope it's food for thought, Meredith, and perhaps helps you feel a little more comfortable with your decision.

Cuddlepie, still keeping an eye on you and hoping. :pray:

BW

Just want to come in to say a quick 'hi' work is a shocker before Xmas ...

What a few interesting points Meredith, one is being egg quality and another one is no fresh transfer only FET in Japan. I have been having the similar thoughts purely because I know my body is sensitive and doesn't like to be poked around, so fresh cycle never worked for me (never means 'past two cycles'), hence I am now a bit regreted that I've put two in, feels like wasting them. Both FS and scientists said to me that fresh transfers have higher success rate than FET, but again I guess sometimes nobody knows better than your own body. Definitely food for thought for future cycles.

BW, thanks for keeping an eye on me, I need those prayers!

Cramps is gone, feeling pretty chilled out purely because my mind doesn't have much hope in this cycle, reason refers to 1st paragraph...at least I have one frostie to look forward to in Feb should this cycle fails....

Hi to all!

Hi Cuddlepie

That's great news that you have one frostie.

Sara

BW - there is just to many unanswered questions in all this and despite every statistic the Drs can give, no one knows what will work for each individual. I am just praying and hoping with all my heart that "the plan" works next time. I really had everything pinned on our previous "give it EVERYTHING" approach but guess life just truly isn't that rosy. Sorry if I sound negative but this terrible year is really getting to me. I do find it encouraging that the reduction in egg no's "seemed" to do the trick for you, along with the meds. You will have some good stories to tell your miracle baby about how much Mummy and daddy went through to get them!

CP - Where there is no AF there is still plenty of hope girl. Just got to get through these next few days!

Meredith I completely understand the negative feelings, I've had many, many times there myself! I just wanted to encourage you and let you know that the answer you think you've got doesn't always come out to be the right one. I thought that the increased prednisone would fix things, but I suspect it made things worse. I thought that a frozen blastocyst was the answer, but it wasn't. In the end, for us, it was half the dose of prednisone Dr S was suggesting, aspirin, metformin, avoiding OHSS and a fresh day 3! :hug: The negative feelings are totally understandable and I'm sure nobody holds them against you.

CP, I think I missed you earlier - congratulations on the frosty bub, but I'm still not giving up hope that little frosty bub will sit and wait to become a sibling.

BW

Thanks BW .

Was just doing a little googling and came across a very interesting article on effects of high doses of FSH on egg quality.
Below is just a few brief snippets from the article. Anyone interested in more can PM me.

Indeed, Lord Winston believes it is now time to re-think our reliance on drugs in fertility management. 'We need to reduce the amount of FSH (the follicle-stimulating hormone used to trigger egg production) we give to women because over-stimulation is harmful to their eggs,' he says.
'Using lower doses improves the quality of the eggs. My own research shows that if you reduce the FSH given, you get fewer chromosomal defects.'
Dr Geeta Nargund is head of reproductive medicine at St George's Hospital, London, and a leading proponent of 'natural' IVF. She explains: 'Nearly half of all eggs collected in standard IVF cycles are chromosomally abnormal and so are less likely to result in a healthy, full-term baby.'
She says high stimulation affects the blood supply to the eggs and causes abnormalities, which can lead to embryos failing to implant, or to miscarriages.

Cuddlepie - that is wonderful you have that "backup" frostie (which of course you will not need for a few years until your current li'l bean needs a brother or a sister ;)) I was very interested in reading about frozen cycles in Japan. It actually fits in with reading I've done that implantation rates for fresh transfers are higher on women who have not had too higher estrogen levels in their stim cycle. Sending you more :stickyvibesgirl: :stickyvibesboy: and hope work chills out for you

Meredith - thanks so much for sharing the fruits of your research with us. I am an avid googler, too! Interesting about the 50% chromosonally abnormal stat you gave. I was told the same figure. I asked my FS about this. Unfortunately, they only have this figure for IVF. I was told we do not know the number of chromosonally abnormal eggs in a natural cycle - as they have to do IVF to get the eggs to do the tests in the first place IYKWIM. So it could be the same figure, or less, or more. But in my head, I do believe in survival of the fittest and can only assume my two Trisomies came from the best follicles in those two cycles. It is a subject DH and I still throw around, particularly after you had some trisomies in your recent PGD cycle which produced faster growing embies than the "normal" ones. Confusing stuff.

Sara - your "at one with nature" break sounded wonderful. You will be nice and energised for the silly season and your potential January cycle :D

AFM - have been BD'ing ourselves silly. Have been using OPK's (which normally work well for me) but am on CD 16 and still have no idea when O will come... Was warned this cycle may take a little longer. Had meeting with clinic today and came home with all my goodies to start my next cycle while the clinic is closed. Was also given some Pregnyl, which we may give to me in very small doses, as my LH was exceedingly low last cycle and this can contribute to low egg quality. We have to use it very cautiously as I will not be on any Orgalutron until around FSH Day 6 so no protection against an LH surge.

Hey thanks WTH for cheering me up a bit regarding the better implantation rate in fresh cycle when estrogen level is lower...I think my 1st fresh cycle I was borderlining OHSS, so that kind of explain why it didn't took. This cycle estrogen leve is very much under control and I hope will make a difference.

AFM, I was actually quite depressed this morning, don't think this cycle is very hopeful...got AF type of cramps now. I just want to get this over with than in-limbo. Even its a BFN, at least I can start buying leg of ham - my true Xmas spirit! :lol: As you can see, mood swing definitely is happening....

Sorry no personls right now, work is still quite busy but I'd rather prefer that...

Hope Sara, Meredith, buliej and Lisa you are all doing well....

Hi Cuddlepie just thought I send you a hug. :comfort:

Hi,

Was a bit depressed about the discussion of damage to the embryo because of PGD, since I don't have the option not to do PGD. But thankfully remembered my discussion with the geneticist: the cells that are used for PGD after 5 days are actually cells that would build the placenta not the embryo, so the possibility of damage to the embryo would be much smaller than for PGD after three days when you actually use cells from the embryo.

Sara

CP - crossing everything that those cramps are "good" ones. Take it from one who has had plenty of BFPs and plenty of BFNs.... cramping defnitely goes with either. I just find that if I am pg, the cramps come and go and don't get to much worse. If AF is on the way, then they just keep getting more intense. STAY AWAY AF!!

WTH - I must admit, i kind of wish I just lived in ignorant bliss. The research is interesting but just does my head in and probably scares me more! Your E2 stat is interesting too. I have NEVER had an E2 like in this cycle so maybe my body just didn't like it. Hopefully next cycle things will be a bit more settled.
What dose pregnyl have they suggested? I have used 100iu every second day for every cycle I have done this year and has certainly helped my E2 levels ( who knows about egg quality?). Never had an issue with premature LH surge

Sara - Oh sorry! The PGD damage talk is mostly my own speculation as to potential causes for my "dud" cycle and yes, we were biopsied at day3. Mind you, the lab and other sources I have read don't seem to think that doing it at this stage is any more damaging than at day5 because all the cells at day 3 can become anything (placenta or embryo) so one taken is easily replaced.
My current thinking is that probably any extra handling of embryos isn't great for them but if one is truly strong enough, it will survive this and make it to the end. I just don't think I had any really strong enough this time. I am sure you will have a good strong embie in there when it comes time.

I am feeling so "bah-humbug" atm. Just don't want to celebrate at all this year and sick of all the "joy" around. Just want to get this year over and done with so we can get going into next yr!

I am like you Meredith, I haven't even taken out the Xmas tree yet and there is no decoration in our house at all this year. I thought 'what for'? Xmas is really for kids anyway! I just need to clean the house this weekend if I am in the mood.

Thanks for the tips about cramps, you are so right. Last night I was sure the cramps are 'good' ones, because when it came, it was bad enought that I thought ' oh s**** that's intense' then its just gone...feels very much like last time when I was pregnant. So I was very hopeful. But this morning, I haven't felt anything yet. If I can keep AF at bay over the weekend, I think I am in for a chance. Haven't been agonizing too much about POAS either which is good...

Sara, big :hug:...I know sometimes 'ignorance is a blessing', the more you know the more worry you have...but don't let all the figures/stats drag your spirit down, plus like Meredith said, everyone's case is different! So chin up girl and 2009 is going to be great for all of us!

Hi,

My last day at work before two weeks holidays, very much looking forward to it.

I understand what you're saying about Christmas. But just wanted to tell you that the weekend after my cycle was cancelled DP and I went out to Flowerpower and baought a wollemi pine and a traditional living Christmas tree and decorated them. It made me feel so much better. So maybe try and don't let it destry yoru Christmas for you.

In any case use the sunshine and have a great weekend.

Cuddlepie: :hug: for you, not long now!

Sara

Cuddlepie - glad I made you feel somewhat better. I am crossing everything (except my legs :rofl:) for you that these little beanies stick! When is your BT? Meanwhile, can I ask you about your cycles after a BFN? I was told mine might run a bit longer.

Sara - yay for being on a break. Really hope you get to rest up with DH (you deserve much spoiling, you know) Look forward to joining you in Jan to cycle together. Take it easy :D

Meredith - I know what you mean about putting 2008 behind you! This year has truly sucked! As for the Pregnyl, I will not know until they do the BT's in the cycle. It was just noted that my LH was very low throughout my IVF cycle and apparently this can affect egg quality. The LH surge thingo was that it is more risky to use the Pregnyl when I am not doing the Lucrin (as I won't be starting the Orgalutron until say, Day 6 or so). My clinic told me they normally prefer to do the small doses on the down reg where they have more control.

AFM - going crazy trying to figure out if and when O is going to come this cycle. Temping and using OPK's and not having any luck. Driving me nuts :rolleyes:

Have a lovely weekend everyone

Hi WTH, b.t is next Monday.

My cycle after either stim or FET is very much back to normal so I am not sure about longer cycle. Hope yours behaves itself! :p

Sorry Saturdays seem to be my day for rants.

Had cramps for the last two days so thinking that AF is on its way, if she shows I don't think I'll go for the BT. Just not feeling ready to start this over the break, feeling that I'd prefer to wait until January.
On the other hand feeling that the time is running away from me - will be 40 mid next year - and that I can't just wait a month....

Sara

Sara, I know that 'torn' feeling so well...my advice, if you are not feeling ready, then wait! One month in a grand scheme of things is nothing really. I waited 4 months after starting Sharky and AP and hope they will kick into gear and optimize my healthy level before I am back on IVF wagon and then I waited another 2 months because of changing FS as you know. Sometimes I do feel that I have pretty much wasted half of last year, but then would I feel comfortable any other way? No.

Enjoy the silly season and NY, recuperate your body strength and spirit and 2009 will be a brand new start, that sounds so perfect to me. Plus, if you are reluctant to start and force yourself to, you will always have a 'resent' or 'unsure' feeling about the cycle. On top of that, who wants to give up ham and champagne if you can avoid it! :D

I have been so calm this cycle and didn't have the urge to test until this morning, I just had this dreadful feeling in my gut...so got up really early and went to coles got the Clear blue digital one. Never used this before and I wish I didn't buy this type later on...

Anyway, the test is BFN, to see 'Not Pregnant' displaying on the screen really sucks! Worse than not seeing a line....

I was sure at one stage that I felt pregnant and we've done everything seemingly should but still this, I feel really crushed. But I am kind glad I did it before the b/t tomorrow, I don't think I can handle this in the office. At least now I can just hide in bed and do nothing.

Well, the only upside is that now I really don't need to worry about having ham, prawns or drinks during Xmas any more.

Now, 2008 officially sucks!

Hi Ladies,

Thought I would drop in a say hello after getting a message on a forum from Red Lady (aka sara69). Well I have some good news to try and brighten everybodies spirit.

I am 9 weeks and 4 days pg. I had an u/s last thursday and got to see the heart beat which was 186bpm and see the little button wriggle.

Everything looks okay as far as they can tell. We have never made it this far before both m/c were at 5.5 weeks.

I here what you all mean about Christmas though I am so worried about having another m/c that I have just wrapped myself up in cotton wool and hiding from the world :pray: that this one will stick

Sending everybody lots of :hug:

Cuddlepie sorry about your BFN I :pray: that tomorrow you get a big suprise. Whats wrong with having ham and prawns when your pg? are you not supposed to?

[COLOR="Purple"]WTH[/COLOR"] Hope you get your lovely temp rise soon. I know how hard it is trying to :bd: every day/second day.

Sara Sorry to hear that your cycle was cancelled. All the best for 2009 I hope that we all us ladies get our Miracle babies. I hope that you can still have a wonderf christmas :comfort:

Meredith I hear what you mean about wanting christmas to come and go. Its a wonderful time of the year and usually I love it and get right into the christmas spirit. But my fear of having another m/c is just to overwhelming and cant seem to do anything but worry. I am also a google freak and research everything that relates to m/c and pregnancy sometimes it pays off and other times I think it just creates more anxiety. Try to have faith and put your worries and stress in gods hands and let hime take care of it for you and your job is not to give up.

Cuddlepie - :comfort: I am soooooooo hoping the digital test is not overly sensitive! On one of my PG's I could barely see the line on a supposedly sensitive 25 ui one, and my HCG was 131.

I understand why you tested this morning, I was the same. I know everyone says to hold out until the BT, but I would rather do it when I was in an environment where I could react to the news, good or bad.

It is not completely over yet (technically you are still PUPO :pray:) and it is great you have a frostie (which I think you said has worked for you in the past).

Thinking of you, sweetie :hug:

Tam,
Very glad to hear of your success.
As for the ham and prawns - unless you have just cooked them there is a risk of bacteria which can cause miscarriages.
More info here: Listeria - the facts: IDEAS - Victorian Government Health Information, Australia

Cuddlepie,
I am very sorry - sending you hugs and hoping that next year works out much better
Kate

Ok, AF showed, so its officially over. I have nothing left but to hope something would turn out different in 2009!

Cuddlepie. I am so sorry to hear this, sending you lots of hugs. Hope 2009 is going to be your year!

Sara

Hi Tam,

Thanks for letting us know your good news. I understand that it's am time full of worries, great that you could already see the heartbeat. Thinking of you.

Sara

CP - OH NO! I am so so sorry. 2008 has definitely sucked. Its been my worst year ever. Bring on 2009 and hope for all of us. Hopefully we will all be having Oct/Nov babies.