Long Term Assisted Conception - 2009

[butterfly_warrior]

Samandpoppy, just want to pop in and let you know that after one miscarriage at 9 weeks, and two very early miscarriages - all from frozen embryos - I did eventually have success with a fresh transfer, and that baby is now three weeks old and the reason I'm on the computer at such an awful hour of the night! I had a lot of testing done, and couldn't necessarily get a clear positive on anything, but we did get there in the end with aspirin, prednisone and metformin (I have PCOS). I can tell you more in the morning...

BW

[mollygirl1977]

Hi Ms Pink -nice to meet you. I have actually been posting mainly in the LTTC threads but really I should be in here as I too have been trying for a VERY long time. We have had 4 IUAI cycles, 3 IVF cycles and (let me count) 5 FET and about to do our 6th FET in Feb. However I have decided that it is an omen as it will be our 9th IVF tranfer in total at the start of 2009 and I like the number 9 so there you go............just some crazy LTTC logic!!!!!!!

Anyway I think I will hang around in here and get to know you all if thats alright. I have no doubt that each and every one of you knows exactly what I am going through.

[mollygirl1977]

Just an after thought.........does anyone know of anyone who has had this many cycles and gone on to get a BFP. I know it sounds crazy and I certainly would not like to know what a MC is like, but I find that perhaps at least having fallen pregnant and MC would give you hope that you could fall again. I have never had a BFP. What do you think?

[briggsy's girl]

molly - i don't know that having fallen and lost gives you any more hope - to be honest, i think it makes it harder because then you start believing your body is at fault, and it's destroying your babies, as opposed to thinking maybe it'sjust not meant to be this time. it's horrible to be honest. i think the thing to look at is that it can take a normal "healthy" couple up to a year to conceive - so i see that as possibly meaning it can take a dozen embryo's before that perfect one is created and implanted. perhap you're still looking for the perfect embie. hope it will be soon

samandpoppy. Like BW, i had a pretty traumatic lead up to success - 2 m/c (around 5 and 9 weeks) in 2005, then three chemical pregnancies all through assisted conception before falling on an IUI cycle last year. the only thing different on that cycle is that we added accupuncture for blood flow to uterus. this one is now a sticky pg half gone...

[Cuddlepie]

Welcome Molly, I've seen you in the other thread and thought you've been through fair alot in this journey! I kind of know how you feel about the thought 'can I even get pregnant?' because I was thinking exactly the same line a year or so ago, at the time I've never ever be able to get pregnant. Then finally we had our first BFP on the 1st FET, but unfortunately m/c at 8wks. I have to tell you, the pain of PG and lost it is soooo much harder to endure than the thought 'wondering when can I get pregnant' (or like BW pointed out equally sucks). But I do feel that I lost more innocence in that process. Ever since then, I have this mixed feeling of longing for being pregnant again but petrified of something goes wrong if I do, all these even before I am actually UTD, I just can't explain.

Anyway, given you have been through numerous cycle with no BFPs, have you thought about asking your FS to do more testings? Could there be any implantation problems? (the link Loula just post re Immunological testing can be worth a read) or any other tests to see why embies never took? Hope you will find some answers soon.

[butterfly_warrior]

I don't think it really matters whether you have fallen pregnant and miscarried, or just been through years of IVF with no success - it just doesn't change the fact that being stuck on this journey utterly sucks. It's painful, heartbreaking and so completely unfair - no matter which way you look at it!

Further to my story started at ungodly hours of the morning... Pregnancy, miscarriage and babies will be mentioned...

I have an active auto-immune disease (rheumatoid arthritis) so I was always a bit wary of miscarrying, and when it did happen with our first pregnancy (first transfer despite being a FET, I had bad OHSS on my first stim cycle), I jumped straight in to insisting that further testing was done.

My FS refused, so I sought a second opinion. It came back that I possibly had a problem with natural killer cells (read Lou's link). We couldn't confirm it as the drug that would be used to treat it was already being used to treat my arthritis. The second FS suggested that we just bump up the dose of prednisone and get back into it. I'd also been taking metformin for PCOS, and the first miscarriage coincided with a dosage reduction...

Another FET, another miscarriage (this one early), another stim cycle, another round of OHSS, another FET, another miscarriage later and I was back at my first FS insisting once again that further testing be done. This time he agreed. My tests came back with a borderline result on lupus anticoagulants... The lady I had been seeing for acupuncture (highly recommend this, by the way!) suggested that my body had so much stuff going on with the arthritis, PCOS, etc that a normal test result for one person could mean very bad things for me, so we worried about the borderline LAC result while my FS didn't. We looked into the treatments - prednisone (already on it) and low-dose aspiring. Considering that the aspirin was available over the counter, we decided to add that to the regime, took the prednisone dosage back to what I was on originally (it messes up blood sugars and my gut feeling was that it was making the PCOS worse than any potential NK cell problem).

And then we launched into our third stim cycle... Followed an extremely strict low-carb, low-GI, high-protein diet and finally managed to not get OHSS and got my first fresh transfer. This one took, stuck... I reduced my metformin dose from 14 weeks and had weaned off by 17 weeks. Around 18 weeks I reduced my prednisone dosage, but could never get off it completely and at 34 weeks I stopped taking the aspirin. At 36 weeks I gave birth, and I'll probably always wonder WHY we went early and did it have something to do with stopping the aspirin, but at least my little boy is here and safe now.

I'd really recommend demanding testing, seeking out second, third, fourth opinions... don't stop searching, don't stop trying things until you finally have success or are physically/emotionally/financially unable to continue. There's so much about the process of conception that they just don't yet know that it's worth continuing to look and seek until you find the magic "recipe" that will bring you success.

BW

[Loula]

BW - thanks you - really enjoyed reading your last post, so full of hope and sprit tried to give rep points and comment but need to share the love around apparently! lol

[MsPink]

Hey Loula,

Was just reading some of the posts as you are the only other person I have seen doing IVF who have hit double figures!!!! So was trying to suss out your history..not that i found much...
Anyway - yes Lucrin is like the spray but my doc prefers the needles (thanks doc) for some reason...
i noticed CP suggesting some immunology testing - not sure if you've done it..but would recommend. My FS is very into it..

[Bengal]

I just searched high and low for a copy of all the b/t's I had done, and I thought I would post them, so you could note them and see if your FS's - had ordered the same tests.
I can only find the account with the item numbers - so hope this helps, if you would like to mention them with your fs - as I know mine run the full gamat ...

I do have the abbrieviated names if anyone wld like them as well...
Item #
10070
65096
65179
66752
69393
69478
71097
71099
71183
73928 -

[barney]

BW, thanks for sharing that post hun it was really nice to read.
i just wanted to pop in and say hi,ive been lurking but very busy the past few days.
take care girls and good luk and have a nice weekend ,its very rainy and cold here to day and dh is cooking me a beautiful roast dinner

[Bengal]

Oh I should have looked in the Immun thread first, it seems the item no's were post in there too...

I did get some info sent to me from a clinic in Melb, when I was shopping around, that they had developed an embreo glue ... I didn't look too much into it initially, but if anyone would like me to chase it up, I could

[*Hope*]

Samandpoppy welcome and congrats on your first post ? its exciting joining a group like this. So much support and info. The girls in here are great.
5 out of 6 has obviously been a rough ride for you, well hopefully you?ll be cycleing with one of us next time.

Hi Mollygirl welcome to our friendly thread too. I?m going with your logic on the 9?s.

Briggsysgirls ? Congrats to you you must be thrilled. I go along with what you said 'a normal couple can easily be 12 months' so IVF can also easily be 12 attempts ? unfortuneately if we are doing two ETs at a time we may feel that it should take half that but....well thats probably wishful thinking. But thats ok to.


BW ? I agree with your below quote. I now wonder if it was a fluke I fell pregnant with my DD. Coz now we?ve had 4 transfers (fresh and fozen) with a neg, a m/c, then a raised HCG and then a neg....what ever happens you mind still manages to come up with scenarios of why it hasn't worked/stuck.
I cant believe how much 'pushing? you have to do with the FS. That can be disheartening to know that your specialist still doesn?t have all the answers but on the other hand the more you know the better off you are at understanding whats going on and what drugs effect what. You have an amazing story I say.

I don't think it really matters whether you have fallen pregnant and miscarried, or just been through years of IVF with no success - it just doesn't change the fact that being stuck on this journey utterly sucks. It's painful, heartbreaking and so completely unfair - no matter which way you look at it!

BW

Hi to the other girs that are around here too

[Loula]

Hey Loula,

Was just reading some of the posts as you are the only other person I have seen doing IVF who have hit double figures!!!! So was trying to suss out your history..not that i found much...
Anyway - yes Lucrin is like the spray but my doc prefers the needles (thanks doc) for some reason...
i noticed CP suggesting some immunology testing - not sure if you've done it..but would recommend. My FS is very into it..

Hi MsP - yep have has all the test done! been half way around the world for them too, with 5 FS in total! Im a girl with a mission. lol London, Melbourne, and Sydney! Like i said before just waiting to try the next step now that i have had surgery

Opps 6 forgot the FS in New York! lol

Oh is your FS Dr Sacks?

[Samandpoppy]

Hi Guys,
I was just writing such a long reply and it disappeared. If it gets posted, half formed thoughts so I will rewrite it.

Am getting together 3 friends next week, 2 LTTTC now both preg, and one newbie to IVF, and trying to cut her journey short and help mine too. Will write up anything else useful I find after that.

Thanks all for you replies, very inspiring.

I am starting 3rd Stim in Feb, antagonist this time, with low dose aspirin. Although am seeing a different FS next week who does the colorado protocol for another opinion. Unfortunately seeems when you swap FS you just start again. I don't think mine even read my file, as had OHSS (dreadful) last stim. I respond very well to drugs and he gave me huge dose due to my age I suspect, I wondered why is was so high but didn't question it, derrrrrr. despite this i like him and will just keep coaching him on what we are goin to do for the moment. he also has sense of humour and balanced view.

Got to say that not doing the down reg is sooooo much better, only 2 weeks of drugs so you can almost get on with your life. my bestie always had to do the down reg, so depends on what you are dealing with.

Also everybody's issues are different so you can't expect FS to be an expert in all, so you just have to do your own research etc, I only just realised this after the last one. I seem to need a reproductive endocrinoligist/ immunologist, who specialises in older womeon doing IVF. The only one who might fit the bill that I have seen so far is Dr Sacks, but he is in Sydney. Also my FS is not convinced that what Sacks does makes a difference.

I found the accupunture very helpful, went from BFN to BFP after doing it. Still sure there is something else going on.

so much blurting out.....

[Samandpoppy]

Hi Butterfly warrior,
thanks so much, I was wondering what the treatment for NK cells was and assume it is Prednisone. It is only one I haven't been tested for.
I think you also need a FS who is willing to do tests and recommend changes in treatment if you have any autoimmune issues, not sure if my second one will go the distance, but we will see. at least I found out late last year that the thyroid antibodies could be a problem, and started taking a naturopath recommended tablet (reishi mushroom) and from what I have found on net asprin might be enough and then if not push for next level, probably prednisone or heparin or both.

NK cells relationship to thyroid fundtion: "If you have been diagnosed with natural killer cells, it is important to also have regular monitoring of your thyroid performed. Approximately 5% of women with elevated natural killer cells will develop hypo- or hyperthyroidism. Therefore, it is necessary to have yearly thyroid testing done."

just got back from holiday, so getting my head back into ivf, need to chill a bit. was lovely in perth

[Samandpoppy]

Hi Hope, Thanks for your welcoming reply also. and to all other girls too for all other comments, soooo good to hear.
I think did something wrong with first 2 posts today, probably too long, so don't know if they will come up, oh well. I am writing myself a summary of what learned so far and will add as I go along.
have a good weekend!!!

[mollygirl1977]

Hi Everyone - just on the way out the door but wanted to stick my head in and say good morning!!! I am actually really excited as I am about to go and meet another BB member for coffee - first time - very exciting!!!

[*Hope*]

Oh how exciting Mollygirl I hope it goes well. You'll have to let us know