Hi Girls,
Discussed with DH tonight about going ahead with our last FE (clinic opens tomorrow) before the planned stim in Feb. Will try baby asprin. Maybe even prednisone as well depending on what FS says. If not and doesn't work then good argument to do prednisone and maybe heparin with the stim cycle.
Can anyone tell me what the test is for NK cells, is it a blood test? I seem to remember somewhere that it can be a biopsy (yuk).
On other fronts planning a Greek feast tomorrow night for brother's birthday. Even got suggestions for table decorations from Google! (Marvelous this internet thing). 2009 is the year try new things!
Samandpoppy - I totally agree with 2009 being the year to try new things. I have taken note of all the tests other BB members have listed for recurrent failure to implant and am faxing them to my FS tomorrow along with the Colorado protocol. He asked me the other day what i wanted to try as he is open to suggestion (unlike my previous FS who told me they were all a big fat waste of time). So I am looking forward to getting his feedback - he is a total sweetheart and is happy to do whatever makes me happy!!!
On a side note, I also get my results tomorrow from the testing i had done last week as my GP suspects i may be wheat/gluten intolerant. I know its a long shot but if it comes back positive, maybe, just maybe the unbalance in my body could be affecting my body's ability to conceive - you never know!!!!!
Mollygirl,
so great FS is open to suggestion!!
I am definitely wheat intolerant, had the genetic blood test for coeliac disease and do not have the gene. (though my Aunt is coealic, and mum very sensitive, puts her to sleep) There is such a thing as non-coeliac gluten sensitive. Anyway if you go off wheat for 2 weeks and you feel better, that is a good indication according to my Aunt!!! I don't have to worry about a little bit eg in gravy, but if get carried away get a sore tummy and nasty wind after a couple of days. It's a bit inconvenient having restricted diet, but you get used to it and is pretty healthy.
There is also a correllation b/w wheat intolerance and low iron absorbtion. my iron is low borderline and I've been on iron tabs, and will also get results for that tomorrow.
Definitely think that if something affects you overall health, it would affect conception too.
We have a sticky thread on immunology testing in the LTAC area that members have added too over the last few years but it has been dormant for a while. There is some interesting information in there that may be of use for you.
Also if you were able to take the time, it would be valuable for other members to have the information you may have gained from your own investigations included in this thread which wont disappear when these fast chat threads end.
I will also bump it to see if we can add valuable learnings for us all.
thank you for that - i have been refering it to several ladies of late! I know you have a lot going on at the moment and want to wish y ou all the very best for your up coming appointments. IRL disscussions are also hard and i hope to be a support to you in the comming days. x
Molly and S&P - it is interesting with regards to how much diet REALLY DOES effect TTC! i once knew a lady who cut wheat, dairy and gluten right out of her diet and bingo! PG! amazing. i have tried to be 'good' when ever i can and went n a major health kick last year, but have relaxed a little since Christmas and the NY! Now being back at work i am hoping to get back into the routine of it, and remembering to start taking my meds but .....shh shh... dont let mel know! lol
AFM! still waiting....CD 24! lets hope im not going to be typical PCOS and be late!
In addition to Lou's comments about diet... the ONLY thing that stopped me from getting OHSS on a stim cycle is sticking rigidly to a low-carb, low-GI, high-protein diet. Diet has a huge impact on all aspects of TTC and IVF... absolutely massive.
Dusty... things do improve in time... just very slowly. Hang in there.
HI ladies. I have been lurking a bit but not posting as didn't really want to believe I belonged in here but truth is I am ofiicially LTACer.
I started TTC #1 in early 2005 but no AF when i came of th pill so have never really tried au natural. After a few rounds of clomid and then puregon/IUI plus some tragic m/c's in there... we did achieve our miracle DS. So I know I am in a far luckier position than many of you.
TTC #2 has been been a much tougher battle. Over a yr of back to back cycles with the joy of pg only to be followed by more m/cs.
Just at the end of 2008 we embarked on our first IVF/PGD cycle getting a fabulous 14 embies all suitable for PGD testing. 9 tested "normal" and we had 2 transfered at day4. Sadly that resulted in a BFN and despite how good everything looked, none were suitable for freezing by day6 so a dud cycle all round really.
Have pulled myself out of the deep hole that is a failed cycle and will be starting another IVF antagonist cycle later this week, when AF shows up post provera. No PGD this time and a lower dose of FSH to try and get fewer but hopefully "better" eggies.
Looking forward to getting to know all you brave ladies. I know many of you have ebdured far tougher journeys than anyone ever should
Mollygirl - Your FS sounds like a gem and its great that you are going in armed with knowledge to help yourself. It would be nice to just trust someone else to know everything and do everything possible to help create your dream but unfortunately, I think in this game you HAVE to know whats out there and push for changes when the "standard" treatment isn't working.
Samandpoppy - You have had a tough road. Hoping 2009 brings it to and end.
Re NK cells, I had testing after my most recent m/c in Aug 2008. I had been tested for everything else in relation to recurrent m/c with nothing showing up. The only "reliable" NK cell testing is done in Sydney. You would normally start with a BT and if results inconclusive then a uterine biopsy is reccomended - this has to be done at a specific time of your cycle and you can't TTC in that month.I did mine with the BB favourite Dr Sacks. Flew up to Syndey in the morning and had blood taken. Then had appt with Dr S in the arvo when he had the results and flew back that evening.
I did it mainly so I didn't have any regrets if i were to have another m/c. I was truly not expecting anything to come of the testing but as it turned out, I had quite high levels of NK cells ( 21 I think it was). High enough that Dr S recc I defnitely should try prednisolone next cycle. I had planned on doing this anyway but is nice to know i have a real reason to do so.
So far, haven't been able to see if its going to work as haven't managed to concieve again since.
Let me know if you want anymore info.
Sorry for those I haven't mentioned. Will get to know you all soon
hmmmm did I hear my name mentione Loula.....missing medication again are we...did I mention the boy works just up the road from you...a spanking could be in order methinks......PMSL!!
Samandpoppy....I also have seen Dr Sacks for the NK testing we actually went straight for the biopsy and planned our trip to sydney to occur at the right time in the cycle.....the bloods I had taken at the same showed a normal level of NK cells but the biopsy showed 6 times the normal level of NK cells so for us the biopsy was very revealing. Our planof attack is now high dose prednisilone and clexane injections till about week 16-20 of a pregnancy to avoid my body trying to destroy itself. i have to say though that I was not surprised by the results as I also have longstanding type 1 Diabetes which is also an auto immune disease and anything auto immune has a tendency to occur in clusters.
Our plan of attack now is try like anything to fall pregnant again naturally between now and April which is the earliest so far I have been able to book in for another PGD with MIVF...apparently they are heavily booked until then, which a right royal pain but ah well thems the breaks.
and its funny you should mention diets but it was about 2 months after I cut tomatoes out my diet afetr suspecting I may have a mild intolerance to them that I fell pregnant naturally in October so yeah I agree diet has a huge impact...
Meredith ? I hope 2009 is a better year with some fabulous results. You comment on how everyone else has had it tough, you have too and you should know that we are all here to help support you.
Samandpoppy, Lou, Melbel and BW you have mentioned diet (food types) playing a significant part of TTC. Is there a list of foods that one can exclude from their diet without having to go a strict eating plan. I do eat as little bread type products as possible as I know I feel terrible if I start eating bread for breakfast and lunch?.. but what would you say is a basic rule to follow?
I have also been taking note of how some of you have taken higher doses of certain medications or gone onto new meds after m/c. I don?t know what I should be requesting / discussing when I see my FS again. In addition to the BFNs I have had one m/c and also a raised HCG.?(and I know this is no where near the number of losses some of you ladies have had).
So I guess I?m a little confused about asking for other options or should I just stick to what he recommends? (Apologies for asking sensitive questions).
I hope every one is on track for where they want to be at this stage in their cycles.
Hope
I thought I would share this with you means hope, faith, love and luck
The belief still exists that finding real four leaf clovers, which are very rare, is an omen of good luck. Each of the four leaves has symbolic meaning: one leaf is for hope, the second for faith, the third for love and the fourth for luck.
thanks dusty,
I have read that thread and got some really useful ideas from it, but didn't know I could add to it. I am really keen to share what I am learning, so I will add to that one.
Meredith,
My heart went out to you, similar boat except I am meatatartian! thanks for info on KN cells so helpful and also thanks melbel. also want to do it to rule it out, apparantly 50% of those with thyroid antibodies have elevated active NK cells, 1 in 2 chance for me.
Am going to see Dr Nick Lolagis on mon, and according to nurse he does uterine biopsy for NK cells. My friend says he is very gruff!
Do you reckon that the NK cells cause auto immune problems, maybe I am totally off track here.
Good news my iron is up from ferritin 21 to 49, am v pleased as has been low for 2 years despite red meat intake. Finally slogged it out taking 100mg iron tabs, will keep taking to get it ferritin up around 100, optimal according to doc.
Hope:
Sorry this is a v long!
Re diet, Seems it is about feeling as good as you can through the ups and downs of TTC. ie being healthy as you can without getting stressed out.
Very relevant in TTC for those who need to follow a special diet anyway. esp. if have auto immune considerations, eg PCOS, endo, Thyroid, Arthritis, diabetes, (also Autism, heart disesase).
Basic diet suggestion: what makes you feel best? is it yeast or flour in bread that yuks you? ie how do you feel if you have pasta? Food diary is a pain, but can be quite revealing, eg I can't handle coffee or decaf = headache for 3-7 days but not for 1-2 days afterwards. DH is allergic to food additive 631, shows up as breathing difficulties up to 30 hours later, but he is not sensitive to anything else!!!!!
I feel best when don't eat too much (working on that), no wheat, even a little gives me a tickly feeling in my throat, have plenty of salady vegetably things, plenty Paul newman salad dressing, bit of protein with each meal, eat regularly, fruit in morning at the moment, bit of yarra glen sparkling (couple of drinks recommended by my naturopath for me for mental health, 2 glass screamer anyway), lowish dairy, no eggs, no coffee, minimal chocolate, lot of icecream once a week. when makes you feel ****e, its easier to eat well, athough much easier in own enviroment, ate plenty chocolate and plenty ****tails on holidays
I did 97 foods blood test few years ago through naturopath few years ago, can do through GP as well, it expensive $300 but good place to start if not patience for food diary and have problem to solve. Showed eggs off chart for me, I thought they were fine and was eating a lot of them, but do seem to contribute to migraines, the usual wheat and dairy, and a few unusual ones. If not could try low GI, low carb, protein rich. I felt amazing the first time I did it, as probably my energy was suppressed by body trying to deal with things not good for it.
Butterfly warrior: thanks for info on OHSS, I didn't know about that and so will keep doing my healthy eating/ slimming efforts through the cycle as I feel better about myself doing that anyway. Also clear skin and people saying I look great which is nice.
on another note, have decided to get hair blow dry each week, as makes me feel better than just about anything else! Looking very dallas today, maybe get a bit less curly next week. Also having pedicure tomorrow!!! yeah
Samandpoppy - Nick often works with my FS ( Lynn Burmeister) and see him around a bit when I have my appts with her. Have heard he is very good with PCOS patients.
One word of caution re the NK cell biopsy. I had it done with my FS a few yrs ago after my 2nd m/c and came up ok at the time but that may not have been an accurate result. The validity of the results is not about who biopsies ( most gynos and FS would do a uterine biopsy) but about the lab doing the testing. The actual counting of the NK cells needs to be done by a lab experienced with the correct procedure etc. Dr Sacks wouldn't trust a melbourne lab AT ALL to do proper NK cell biopsy analysis and I think he would want to do the biopsy himself to get his lab to do the testing.
Just something to think about. if you really want to rule it out, I would get accurate testing done by someone who is truly an expert in the field. My FS was not phased at all by me seeing Dr S for further testing and is happily following his recomended protocol for treatment.
Sorry, I don't want to sound pushy or mess with anything you are planning to do. Just letting you know what I have learnt and maybe save you from doubling up on testing
Last edited by MeredithD; January 13th, 2009 at 07:37 PM.
Was just wondering because you talk a lot about antibodies etc. My FS tests patients after repeated IVF failure. I think he is probably the most knowlegable with this stuff. If people have these NK (natural killer) cells, they are usually put on a Prednisone etc protocol. The test involves a very detailed BT and a biopsy taken from the Uterus around day 22 of the cycle.
Hi everyone...haven't been on the net for a few days and there's so much going on in here.
Fingers x'ed for the TWW.
Hi Meredith, gosh you poor luv. How have you been the last couple of days. From reading the posts I would tend to agree with MsPink, and that is if your embies are good and freezable and you know the endo is bad, I would think about freezeing the better ones. And yes there is still always hope that something can happen if a ET has taken place.
MsPink how are you travelling, are you having your ET on Monday?
AFM - AF came early which I am happy about as it means we can start our cylce earlier. So start the pill Wednesday and wait for further details of when to stat synarel. I am so ready for this cycle, very hopeful that I get some really good eggies - a couple to put back as embies and some to go into the freezer. Wow not asking much am I !!!!!
things do improve in time... just very slowly. Hang in there.
means hope, faith, love and luck 
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