I just came out of my second IVF cycle with protocal of treating NK cell issue (Immune suppressive therapy). The protocal basically is the combination of prednisone and Clexane injection. Unfortunately this cycle failed again. My NK level is 30%, which I think is classified quite high. I only did a b/t not a biopsy and it was done May 2009.
The period started quite early, right on a week after two blastcysts were transferred (they were good quality - A grade, So Im trying to come to terms with what actually went wrong. ) and with quite a few clots in the first day or so then eased. I had symptoms like tight / swell tummy feel and digging sensation during a week after transfer but after DPO10 they all dissappeared. It feels like they are trying to implant but however some other force are still preventing them. When period starts, I also got some aches and pains in my left finger and legs, appearantly these are some symptoms when autoimmuane imbalance in your body but just not serious enough for clinical diagnosis (which I read in Alan Beer's book). So this also leads me to think my immune system somehow is still not in the clean for my embyros.
I thought there could be two possibilities, one is - my embyros are not strong eough, so they are just weed out after transfer. Well, nothing I can do about that, just need to play the numbers game then.
Second possibility, could it be the protocal is not effective enough to keep NK cell at bay and its still interferring with the implantation? Im on 20mg predinsone after EPU (before was 10mg from D1 of the cycle), what else can be done?
Murraycod, I read your treatment in the other thread about antibotics, what does it do? I might check with my FS about this.
Any one can offer any advice? Im going to see FS in a few weeks time to discuss this. Thanks!
I'm so sorry it didn't work again.
my only advice is to keep trying if your body, sanity and budget will let you. I used to feel those crampy digging in feelings too and i also think they are a bub trying to stick. i felt the same thing on my successful cycle. good luck, i'm thinking of you
CP, again I am so sorry sweetie, I am totally gutted for you, I was so hoping this would be the one. I had a look back over my cycles and this is what I was doing:
I started Prednisone in Dec 08 during a Colorado Protocol cycle, and pretty much stayed on it the entire time, even while not cycling. When I tested + for MTHFR in Feb 09, I started on low dose aspirin daily, mega folate (5mg) and high dose B6 and B12 (the folate, B6 and B12 are specific to MTHFR). It was also recommended Clexane from ET or from postive BT (I pushed my FS for Clexane from ET as I had never gotten to BFP before). Continued to take Prednisone while not cycling at 6.25mg per day (quarter tablet - I had 25mg tabs) in case of NK Cells (though tested neg on BT, I never did a biopsy but FS was happy for me to continue).
Mar 09 Cycle #8 FET natural, 2 blasts transferred, Clexane from ET. BFN
Apr 09 Cycle #9 IVF antagonist cycle converted to IUI. I had sneakily done Clexane every second day from O day. FS hadn't recommeded Clexane as it was not an ET.
May/Jun 09 Cycle #10 IVF antagonist cycle with assisted hatching, 2 blasts transferred (1 hatching blast rated 10/10, 1 early blast rated 7/10) Clexane from night of EPU.
For this I took low dose aspirin the entire time except for 5 days before EPU. I had Clexane from night of EPU. Prednisone - I had 25mg tablets, CD1 to trigger quarter tablet (6.25mg), from trigger for 5 days (full tablet 25mg), then from there half tablet (12.5mg). I did assisted hatching for the first time, I had previously never had a hatching blastie.
I don't know if any of this helps. Given your NK cells are high can you up your Prednisone dose? Or maybe stay on it on a low dose until you next cycle, your body might need more time to reduce the NK cells. I am not sure when you started Clexane, was it from EPU or ET? This might make a difference also, I always felt I had clotty AF, and wanted the Clexane for a good endo lining thinking by ET it was too late.
Oh I wish I had something else to suggest. I hope the other girls have some ideas, or your FS too. Wishing and praying for you xx
BDT, Im taking notes...I think the aspirin thing is definitely need to be re-considered. I did start Clexane the night on EPU so quite early and my dose of Prednisone is 10mg from D1-EPU then increase to 20mg till 12 weeks or negative test. I might check if I need to be on 25mg...I think also worthwhile trying to stay on low dose between cycles.
Sth new came out when I was reading a post from Murraycod, it seems her NK protocol has antibiotics from D1 till EPU which is sth I haven't heard. But I know Lou who is now 31 weeks pregnant also been treated with antibiotics together with the normal protocol because she was tested positive for Ureaplasma. I don't think either DH and I been tested for this. So Im going to check that out. Thanks for laying down all the details from your cycle, great help!
Nic, thanks hun! One day, I will have my forever baby!
really sorry I missed this, I haven't been around the forums much for a while.
You will get there eventually, and I am really sorry this wasn't the time for you.
I don't have the same issues as you, however I would like to share that my naturopath has been treating my immune system, with the aim to reduce my troublesome antibodies. He has had some amazing results as far as my thyroid antibodies go, and in treating my Graves Disease. I am sure you have looked into most things, but I know for ages I assumed there was little my naturopath could do to actually treat that aspect of things...yet my antibodies went from 23 times normal, to normal, in a time frame which surprised my specialist and my GP.
I don't know yet what's happening with my another antibodies (related to antiphospholipid syndrome)....seeing FS in a couple of months and will check on those things...but possibly they have improved also.
Just something for you to perhaps ask about.
Hang in there and good luck getting a new plan sorted- it's great you are being so proactive...it's the only way sometimes to get things sorted! (unfortunately medical people don't always take as much time with each person as they should!)
xx
That's so true Possum, I feel all the medical specialist have way too many patient to give an individual enough attention to really work it out what the problem is. What happens on House or Grey's are pure fiction!
Great idea of naturopath, since I have a bit time on my hands, I might as well boost up my body, your experience is such a great example, thanks hun!
CP - hang in there. We got our BFP on our 3rd transfer on autoimmune protocol. First one chem, 2nd nothing, 3rd was it.
Also DH went on a course of Doxic anitbiotics to treat ureaplasma (not tested but FS said it would not hurt either way), after reading about Murraycod and the 3rd transfer was the one we had the antibiotics on so worth a try.
Goodluck, stay strong and push for the medication you think will help.
Hi Trea, congratulations on your BFP! Thanks for the encouraging story, especially using the same protocol from Dr. S. We saw Dr. Sacks last month and he prescribed the Doxy for me as well. Just out of interest, what is your NK cell level? and how much Prednisone you were on? We are changing it to 30mg now for the next cycle. thanks hun! x
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Treatment for High NK cell level
so sorry to hear that your cycle didn't work out
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