Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - March 2007 #2

Wow, I was only AWOL for one day and so much happened in here i had to take notes.

ATryingtime - DH has 5-10% normal morphology, but he passes the other 2 tests fine. I was also taking Clomid when i o'd naturally anyway - but i'm pretty sure the endo got in our way, not the shape of DH's swimmers.

Kim b - DH would freak out and run a mile if i mentioned fine needles going anywhere near him. Getting blood tests done is hard enough :)

boo - I'm not sure if the SA for IVF has a stricter criteria than normal SA. I guess that if they are going to do IVF they don't want to go through the whole procedure only to find the :sperm: don't get through.

Sammi-Jane - hmmm i wonder if we should ask if DH should be tested again. I talked to him about it and he said not to worry, but i don't like the idea of having any more interference than is absolutely necessary. :crossfingers: fot the ET tomorrow.

Mon - welcome - it's getting to be a fairly big group here - i hope no-one has to stay around too long.

BG - yay for the result. Your post sounded so happy and it was great to read. You have lots ahead of you now. GL

BW - keep up with the journal - it's the only way i can keep up with how you are getting on. I hope that the stress and anxiousness eases today.

Everyone else - sorry too much going on to keep up :D

Jo

Hi ladies - I'm a recruit from the Clomid / Met thread. Been laying low for a while, getting my head and body around this IVF stuff!

Nevertheless, happy to be here!

Hi Brigg's - how are you..how's the verandah?!

Good luck SammiJane, fingers crossed for your transfer..rest up

I had my 3rd scan this morning. I'm on day 9 of Puregon now (day1-5 100iu, 6-8 150iu, d9 -> 200iu) had roughly four follies 11mm and lots under that size. I'm sitting tight over the weekend and hopefully get a better result on Tues

Good luck everyone hope to chat more soon, when a little more acquainted!

:)

Runs and hides...maybe I did BW LOL
I felt tired last night, and this morning was drisley and grey outside. I was feeling stressed over a few work issues still eg: police again! and a colleague whos started to act like a brat.
Im actually cleaning up a bit and going to list some more things to make more moolah! for whatever life holds for us.

Can you take the afternoon off? Its friday anyway. What kids actually learn after lunch anyway! teehe

as much as i hate it, welcome smudge - it's so hard welcoming people to this thread! i really hope you don't have too long a stay here. and heheheh - pergola is finished, shed is slowly being organised, and painting inside has started - life just doesn't stop!

LOL SS - taking the day off - hope the stressful side of your job calms down soon

BW- gee it's a lot to keep up with, no wonder you're feeling stressed. I hope that the BT goes well.

Yes Carrie we have chatted, after I met you and beautiful Kyla at Divvys little boy's Birthday party.

it's 3pm, I'm at work, on class... and they still haven't called! The fact that it's taking so long is making me think it's all wrong again! :(

BW

Kotare: DH had no choice, his DNA Fragmenation came out a little below average and using a fine needle actually lowers the DNA frag quite considerably! He did complain about it though!

BW- Im worried about you! Let me know whats going on...and if your unhappy and not comfortable there then go somewhere else. I could have chosen to do my IVF at the first FS i went too but I chose not too...not because of the nurses- truth be told there better than the ones Ive got now- but my FS isnt stuffing me around anymore and most importantly I TRUST WHAT IS COMING OUT OF HER MOUTH!

Sammi-Jane- good luck with everything I don't feel any different at the moment so Im not feeling very hopeful, but im negative about it anyways


Ive booked a week long holiday straight after I find out whether my ICSI is successful or not. I guess either way I either celebrate or drink lots of ****tails and getting stinkin drunk!:cryinglaugh:

Have a good weekend guys!

ok, sorry for my little freak out. I was just getting really stressed when it hit 3pm, as I know that's when the nurses finish. And I figured that if it was taking them so long to get back to me it must mean they were running around trying to get hold of my FS (I think Fridays are his day for doing EPUs) and sort out what to do from here... But I think they may have put it on my file that I finish work at 3:05, because that was exactly when they called me.

:dance: :confetti: :dance: :confetti: I'm starting puregon tomorrow! It was just unfortunate that I'd already shut the computer down and packed it away when I got that call, and with having to race off for acupuncture I couldn't get it back out and post the update. I did manage to send a heap of text messages out, but forgot to ask someone to post here.

So... last dose of lucrin at 20 units tonight, tomorrow we drop to 10 and start puregon. My acupuncturist has given me very strict instructions to bother the heck out of the clinic if I'm not feeling well once we start as she thinks I'm going to respond better and faster to the puregon than they expect me to. It's a little bit annoying as we have to try to remember how to use the puregon pen for the first time when we'll be away. I'll sit down and have a play with it tonight.

Kim, apart from that one nurse I'm actually pretty happy with the staff at my clinic. I like my FS, and DH absolutely adores him and they get on really well. I trust him, and the nurse that has been ringing me for my blood test results is beatiful and lovely... there's just that one I saw this morning...

BW

Thanks for all the welcomes ladies! I do hope our stays here are short lived.

BW - I hope you received good news today - try and stay positive, this can be such a rollercoaster ride!

Sammi Jane - Best of luck with the ET tomorrow.

Smudge – Hope you get loads of follies turn up for you on Tuesday!

I had my nurse chat today to determine whether I go with a natural or medicated FET cycle, and my FS has recommended natural, as I usually ovulate at the same time each month. Although it is going to be a bit cheaper and I won’t have to use the pessaries for as long, I’m not sure I like the idea of having to trust my body to do the right thing throughout the process! It’s already let me down so many times…

I guess this is all trial and error to see what works. Looks like I’ll be starting BTs in about 3 weeks. Can’t wait!

BW - just read your post after I sent mine! Glad it was good news for you today. I found the Puregon pen so much easier to use than the Lucrin (was just a bit bulkier when injected), so I'm sure it wont be too hard for you to get used to it.

I have been considering acupuncture treatment alongside the AC, but don't really know a lot about it. Am interested to hear how you find it!

Mon, the acupuncture is fantastic!! I've been going for what feels like ages - I started about half way through last year. In some ways, the acupuncture treatments are the one thing that have kept me sane through all the silliness that I've endured in trying to get IVF started. I go every week, drive just over an hour each way, but no matter how tired I am, I still go every single week! Sometimes the best thing is to just sit and chat with my acupuncturist about how things are going, and then being forced to stop for an hour and rest and relax with needles where ever I need them. She's helped me through sinus problems, digestive problems, bleeding, fatigue issues, arthritis flares, severe anxiety, headaches - it really is treating me as a whole person rather than the particular set of problems that each of my doctors will deal with. It's very, very worthwhile, but if you do decide to take it up, make sure you find someone who can work along side conventional medicine and specialises in fertility issues. I can not sing the praises of acupuncture loudly enough!

BW

Thanks BW! Sounds like something that is definitely worth looking into. I guess I never really knew what kind of "medicine" it was, especially how it could help fertility, but if it can assist with treating other problems at the same time, then bring it on! Thanks for the advice - gives me something to focus on while I wait for the FET cycle to start!

Hey there BW - looks like you're one you're way properly at last. good luck with the puregon. if you're thinking you might have any anxiety issues with using it first time tomorrow night, feel free to PM tonight and i'll give you my number so you can call - alwayshappy to help out.

glad the acupuncture helps you - i've been considering it, and thinking it might really help. sounds like you have a great person doing your accupuncture, so as well as the medicinal side of things, you're probably getting stuff off your chest each week, which has to help with the stress/anxiety issues too...

hope you enjoy your weekend away!

You're so right there, BG! Sometimes I get more from the chats than I do from the treatment. I'm actually happier to go talk things through with my acupuncturist and chill out for an hour than to use the councellors at the clinic. Sounds odd, but it has got me through so many stressful situations, and I think in some ways when it comes time to reduce the frequency of treatments once I'm pregnant I'm really going to miss it.

BW

hehe....:redface: ...been wondering why it has been so quiet in here the last two days...just realised I hadn't subscribed to the new thread.....doh!!

too much to catch up on but welcome to Mon and Smudge and welcome back to Carrie...hopefully no one is her for too much longer and we can all board the pregnancy ark.

Mon I do have to second the acupunsture.....I have been doing acupuncture and naturopathy for about the same time as BW and I have noticed a huge improvement in my overall well being....like BW I also travel over and hour each way to see some lovely ladies up closer to melbourne. I had an acunpuncture session this afternoon and she said that my pulses were the best she ahd seen them since I started there and they sounded favourable for the big BT on Monday so here's oping.

I am still having niggly Af like cramps and sore BBS but she said that is most likely from the crinone as well so try not read anything into them...yeah right...as if!!! I tell this is the longest TWW I have ever done...it is really doing my head in knowing that there is actually a bun in the oven and praying that it sticks...is so much worse than just not knwing like in anormal cycle....grrrrr!!!

Ah well ...Rock on Monday I say....EJE, maybe we can be belly buddies together with our precious little PGD graduates!!!

Awww – I had just writed a post and lost the lot!...so here goes again
BW- Fantastic news that you start the puregon. YAY, what a relief for you! The acupuncturist sounds great. I suffer from bad sinus pain, even worse now that they have taken the “proper” Sudafed off the market.
EJE- I thought it was you, but thought I’d better make sure first. It’s great to see that things have progressed so well for you since we last spoke! Were are you in the tww? It’s such a nerve racking time isn’t it?
MON-Goodluck with your cycle. I don’t really understand all the different meds like lucrin and puregon, or all the blood tests that everyone seems to have to have. My ICSI seems straight forward compared to this: the pill for a month, syneral, gonal F and the trigger injection, no blood tests (except after the tww), only scans.
KIM- The holiday sounds like a great idea! Are you in the tww atm?

With my first IVF ICSI, rather than having to use the gel daily in the tww, I requested the 2 injections which was so much easier. Just wondering if other people have been offered this as it seems so much easier…and less messy!

Carrie, I presume the extra TWW injections are HCG booster shots? Interesting thought there - the crinone is probably the medication I'm most scared of, particularly now that I've got the injections under control. Although, the reaction I had to the last HCG shot is making me think the crinone will be the better option for me.

It really is a great feeling to know that I'm starting tomorrow. Getting to the puregon makes me feel like I'm finally actually starting IVF - the synarel and lucrin haven't given me the same feeling. It's just a shame that today my knee has decided to hurt like crazy! I'm not sure I want to take naprosyn at this stage!

BW

Acupuncture seems to be the way to go, doesn't it? i spoke to my chiro, who also does acupuncture. we discussed acupuncture in conjunction with the IUI treatment for fertility stuff, and he's happy to go down that path if we choose - i just have to be able to commit the time every week for at least 13 weeks - and with the chaos that has been my life of late i just can't seem to find the time!!!! now that things are settling back down, i'll be finishing work earlier every day, and his clinic is only about 5 minutes from work, so i might be able to get around to it. i'd find it very difficult to see someone else at this stage but with Mark, it would be pretty ok (been going to him as a chiro for almost 11 years, so i kinda trust him!!). going back to see him next week, so might have a chat then...

Hi guys!

What crinone? after my EPU Ive had to take four pregnyl shots, one every three days as well as take a claxene injection every night!

Kim, crinone gel is a pessary that is used to keep progesterone levels up during the luteal phase of an IVF cycle. My clinic hasn't said much about it at all (my cycle information sheet just says that I'll start it on the night of my egg collection and continue until finished - it lists dosages of metformin, puregon and pregnyl, but not the crinone), but it sounds icky from what I've read/heard so far. How many times per day is it usually used?

BW

BW crinone gel comes in a single use tube...there are 15 in the box.....it is simply a controlled release form of progesterone and the standard is one tube each night before nye nyes!! Witht the other icky pessaries they have a wax coating which accumulates up there and tends to come out in a big blob every now and then or so I have heard. I am finding the crinone quite easy apart from the misleading crampinees and sore BBs

My FS just asked whether I wanted to use the gel or the have the injections. I chose the injection.
This time around the nurse just gave me the gel and didn't even ask about injections, so I requested them which she said would be fine (i'm not sure what they were called). The nurse said that I had to have 2, but I'm sure last time I only had one....however I do have a very bad memory.

Carrie I was reading up on the injections and the current thoughts are that the blood levels of progesterone do not relate to the uterine level of progesterone. Studies recently have found that the progesterone absorbed through the cervix wall does something special in the way it is absorbed (technical term I forget off the top of my head) that maintains the local level of progesterone in the uterus. I think it said that to get the same level of response you would have a whooping hugmungous dose by injection to achieve a similar result.. If you want I can dig out the info for you.

So the crinone isn't as yucky as I've been imagining? Just how much mess are we talking here - pad or panty liner?

BW

LOL BW! Doesn't sound very nice does it???
Hmmm Mel, that gives me something to think about! I'll talk to Dr McBain about it. Although it did work for me last time.... but I need all the luck I can get too, so would appreciate a look at the info, but only if it's not too much trouble.

Melbel – all the best for Monday – sending you lots of sticky vibes!

Carrie – I coincidentally went through a cycle of IVF at the same clinic with two of my girlfriends, and only one of us was offered the injections over the Crinone. She said that as she had lower levels, she was not at risk of OHSS so that is why she was offered the choice. My other girlfriend and I were prescribed the Crinone only for the TWW. Apparently, the nurses said they would prefer to prescribe the injections but as the risk of OHSS is higher in some women, they aren’t able to. Not sure if the chances are higher with the injections of the Crinone.

BW - I found the Crinone gel to be ok – panty liners did the trick just fine!

Sorry Mon - what do you mean by lower levels and OHSS?

I think that I had higher risk of ovarian hyper stimulation syndrome (I think that’s what is stands for) than my other friend, as I think my estrogen levels were much higher than hers. I didn’t realise I even had the other option, or that it was an issue, until my friend told me she was offered the injections instead. It’s amazing what you find out through other peoples experiences!

Carrie...this is the only one I could find from memory...I can't remember what search terms I used...arrgh :doh:

Quote:
The recent development of a new sustained release vaginal progesterone gel, Crinone 4%, showed that using less progesterone (because of the sustained release effects) nonetheless achieved endometrial results similar to findings made with IM progesterone administration or in the menstrual cycle. This led to the unexpected discovery of uterine trophicity of vaginal progesterone. In a prospective trial, Fanchin et al. (4) demonstrated that every other day administration of 1.1 g of Crinone 4% gel containing 45 mg of progesterone induced full endometrial decidualization, despite progesterone levels in peripheral blood that were in the "luteal phase defect" range (peaks at < 5 ng/mL and troughs at ≤ 1 ng/mL).

The discrepancy between low peripheral levels of progesterone and full effects on the nedometrium led us to postulate that some of the progesterone administered vaginally is directly transported into the uterus through a "first uterine pass effect" (5). In a recent study (6), we showed that vaginal progesterone administration resulted in higher uterine tissue concentrations of progesterone and lower peripheral blood levels as compared to IM progesterone administration. These results also refuted the objections raised by Miles data hypothesizing that the study findings might reflect a contamination of the biopsy specimens by progesterone still present in the vagina. the vaginal gel Crinone confirmed the prior work of Miles et al (7) that used locally made vaginal progesterone capsules. The results also refuted the objection raised to the Miles data that higher uterine tissue concentrations following vaginal progesterone administration resulted from contamination of the uterine aspirate by progesterone still present in the vagina. In Cicinelli’s study, endometrial tissue was obtained from hysterectomy specimens which, thus, ruled out any possible contamination.

Some doctors also don't like to give women at risk of OHSS the injections because they progesterone is in such a high concentration that it can affect the ovaries adversely. I guess it is another case of horses for courses in this wonderful world of assisted conception.

Hi ladies, very informative. That made for interesting reading.

Mon - I'm sure you have made the right decision for you choosing to do a natural cycle. All this talk of pessaries I'm certain you feel better already :)

BW - that is GREAT about starting Puregon!! You are so right about the spray etc not feeling like you are really moving. I find it's the stim action that really gets the adrenaline pumping! Good Luck with the pen. I have PCOS and was started on 100iu for 5 days and currently on 200iu . What dose are you starting on? Here's to beautiful follies!

Kim - that is a fantastic idea having a hol..my girlfriend has been at me this week to go away at Easter and I was really torn because no one knows about our IVF and in theory that will be smack bang on our BT results (if I ever get off the stims!) How do you explain without 'explaining' to your best drinking buddy that you just don't feel like it..Consequently, I let her know that I wouldn't be able to fit it in... I think you have the best idea at least either way you aren't in a work environment and can take it as it comes. Let's hope you aren't drinking and you are relaxing and smiling with your pg!

Melbel - GOOD LUCK for Monday - I'll be looking out to see how you get on. Thinking of you!

Carrie - Dr McBain prescribed my medication yesterday because they could not get hold of my FS..I have not met him in person but have heard such great reports about him.
You are exactly the same as me, pill, synarel, stim, etc and only scans for the monitoring side. I think it must be something to do with our personal bloods etc and our 'lot' I remember from the tests taken early on everything was pretty much in order apart from the insulin..but I see alot of other ladies have prog tests. I'm not sure either..I'm happy, I loathe needles! ahh the joys. Good luck to you sweets

As for me, just kicking back hoping my follies are growing up! I noticed on my sheet I have been prescribed crinone for the 2ww..cross fingers I get there!!

Have a great weekend everyone! :)

Thanks for that Mel. I definately wasn't at risk of hyper stim last time! I was on the injections for ages because my follicles weren't growing!! Only 2 sleeps left for you!

Smudge: Hi there! Dr McBain is great, I feel really confindent with him. You're about 2 days ahead of me in the cycle. I'm scheduled for my scan on Thursday.

Wow ladies there are so many in here at the mo and i really am finding it hard to keep up.

Juat waiting for af to arrive so we can start our next FET but who knows when that will turn up. i alway feel that my first af comes preety soon after a BFN cycle but the second one always takes longer sometimes up to 50+ day ()well thats pco for you)

BG - i have been seeing Mac Talbolt since i arrived in 2003 but changed FS because of a stuff up my nure made but now am back with him to use up my remanding embies.

its interesting stuff finding out how others have done there cycles before. i have never heard of the injections and ive only had the crione or pessaries and to be honest i prefer the crione!!at lease it has its own applicator!


OH OH Bw how did you injection go ?
Take care all and +++++++

Lou - isn't it always the way - when we're wanting AF to show her face, she goes into hiding, but guarantee if you don't want to see her for whatever reason, she rocks up early!!! i've only seen Mac a couple of times - mostly deal with his clinic nurse from out here - it's still a trip of over 90 minutes to be able to get there, but so much better than having to go to Melbourne for treatment! from what i've seen of him, he is ok - here's hoping!!

Finally back from our weekend away, and so relieved to have access to my beloved belly belly again!

I'm over the insensitive, stupid comments from complete and total strangers that drove me stark raving mad all day Saturday... I avoided strangers today like the plague! Thanks so much to BG and Summer who were my text-message sanity savers! I could not have got through the weekend without that little bit of contact with people who understand.

First injection last night was ok, DH managed to figure out the pen thing, although I am wondering if it was supposed to click all the way in as I injected? I felt a bit of a sting with that injection, I guess because it's so much bigger than the 20 units of lucrin. Now down to 10 units of lucrin and don't feel that injection at all. I've spent today travelling at a fairly high speed over rather bumpy roads (some were even dirt!), and I'm feeling very, very aware of my ovaries. It's not exactly pain, but I am aware... I think it must all be in my head, I've only had 150 units of puregon pumped into me, surely I shouldn't be feeling things already?

Anyway, I shall be back later, DH has informed me that Grey's Anatomy is starting, so I must be off!

BW

Well its all over bar the shuting here.......Af arrived this arvo so the blood test tomorrow is just a formality.....I wish I could have a good cry but I just feel sorta numb at the moment...not sure what to think.

I guess we still have our one embie on ice but if that doesnt work that will be it...we don't have the finances to go back again and they won't let me adopt because of my diabetes....gees life sucks sometimes.

BW - glad to hear you got home ok and that you survived the weekend. so sorry you had to avoid everyone today though - i really wish that people would wake up to the fact that pity is a wasted emotion! the pen doesn't click as it goes in - just as you're setting up the dosage - so i'd say it was all ok - and there's nothing to say you're not feeling some sort of response - you're body has had hormone production reduced to pretty much zilch by the lucrin, so you're ovaries would be sensitive to the puregon and may have started to respond. i'm guessing they must respond pretty quickly otherwise you'd need to be on the injections more than 10 or 12 days!

Mel - hun, i'm so sorry AF showed this afternoon. i wish there was something i could say to help you out at the moment. don't give up hope - it only takes one little embie to stick like glue, so there's still hope. take care hun.

Mel - :hugs: we are all here for you.

Mel, so sorry sweetie.... :hugs:

Oh bugger! My pen clicked the whole way in... I still felt the stuff go in, but now I'm worried it worked right!

Mel, :hugs: I know there's nothing that I can say that will make you feel better, but I am thinking of you.

BW