Our FS office is right next door to the Early Pregnancy Clinic - where people whose pregnancy is failing go. I just found their diagnostic on the net and what it says is not good. The Prog has to be over 60 for this to be a safe pregnancy. And we need to see an embryo sitting squarely in the uterus on the scan.
WLAB - I am starting to have some appreciation of what you went through with your past two pregancies. Man we want this baby - badly.
OP - You know I know exactly what your going through, and I will be here for you every step of the way. I also know that you are an educated woman who understands the numbers and needs to research to finds out whats happening with your pregnancy.
However there are plenty of women who have had a successfull pregnancy with low Prog Levels, and as a wise woman once told me "you are still in the game". I am not going to tell you not to stress, because you will, that's what we do, but I will tell you one thing my FS told me when we were going into her office every thursday, checking to see if a heartbeat would appear on that screen and watching and praying her face would light up. She said - the fate of this embryeo is sealed, from the moment of conception, you need to go home, and breathe, there is nothing you can do !!
Now: I do not mean that comment in a negative sense, I am trying to get you in a semi "safe" state of mind, you will have to just "breathe", you have 8 months to go, and you wont be doing bubs any good, you know that. All will be well, OP - trust your very well prepared body, and have faith xx
I am here if you need me and if you ever need to talk on the phone, please, just let me know..
Where are your Louise Hay affirmations my love - I would like to see a new one posted
WLAB, you are absolutely right about the fate of any embryo being sealed at the point of conception. And I get that totally.
My fear is that this is an ectopic - which the hormone levels point to. That's a really bad outcome. Miscarriage I can accept. Ectopic will end our IUI journey and force us back to IVF, which we neither want, nor can afford.
I had a talk to my Mum last night. She reminded me that she was never sick with any of her pregnancies. She just had balloon boobs. And that's pretty much how this is for me. I am telling myself that this is how my body does it. I am eating my vitamins, and surprisingly I'm sleeping really well. That is all I can do.
It was tough getting through this week to the BT day. Productivity at work was zip! It will be even tougher getting through next week. I will just breathe. Some meditation will also help.
Thanks for your support, everyone. I so appreciate it. This is a frightening time. I never considered we'd have to face this challenge.
There is not much I can add Im sorry, I dont know much about this stuff as I have not got there yet. But I wanted to say I am thinking of you, and that I am sure everything will work out with this little embie. Wishing the best of luck and lots of hugs
Thanks Diamond. Your positivity always gets me through!
I spoke to the clinic. They've baned me from reading! Lol!!
They said: can't say it's definitely going to work out. Nor can they say it definitely won't. Yes it would be nice to have the prog higher. But the hCG is VERY good. And the prog is making that happen.
So. I'm working from home today. Have put the stereo on a sung my lungs out. I feel better. Now all I can do is wait.
OP, I was doing some research today and saw that from conception to 12 weeks of pg, prog levels should be 9-47, so you're smack in the middle of that! Pre-pg is 0-20. Sounds like a good result to me! And your HCG is also certainly in the range - looks good according to the reference ranges I found.
Fingers crossed for you Shades - hope good old AF stays away for your holiday and you can really relax and have a great time.
AFM, I went for my scan today re the cyst and all is well. Only thing evident was a collapsed follicle type thing that she thought might have been the remnants of the cyst meaning an all clear for next year. I got her to do some bloods (well, to be honest she was going to do them anyway to see if I was at baseline) and I read my body right! I did o at some stage (I reckon about a week ago), glad I trusted my body and made sure we BDd at the right time. Prog level 34 today which is a good result for the luteal phase (and early pg). So I guess I'm officially joining in with the 2WW on a natural cycle - never thought I'd be saying that. So as I said, one week to go til AF due - will POAS at Christmas if no AF by then
WBM - 32 is a great prog result for a natural cycle! Things are looking very positive for you!
FYI - I know we're all used to using science to tell us when we ovulate, when the prog levels go up and so on... but basal body temperature charting will tell us all of this too. It will even tell you when you are pregnant.
I did BBT charting for two long years, which is how I got to know my body so well. Or my reproductive cycle at least. For anyone who wants to track themselves over the hols and doesn't know how to BBT, let me know and I'll drop a you a private message on how to do it and where to get some resources.
Thanks OP. My naturopath has asked me to start charting BBT from next cycle. I guess because I didn't have natural cycles at all until I started all the AC stuff I forgot all about the natural stuff. But I did use my body's CM to tell me when I was ovulating (and the twingy pain I get). If I'm not in the family way this time I'll certainly be relying more on my body than I was previously - I feel like I'm learning more every cycle which is great.
WBM - Congrats and GL for the TWW u will be poas around same time as me
OP - rest up hun! - try and relax i know i know easier said than done
your hcg levels are great xx
WLAB - how are you? and diamond - hello!
AFM - well i don't know . I don't really feel anything other than sore BB when i push them and i feel soooooooo fat! Last pregnyl shot tom then officially i am poas Mon 22nd but maybe sat or sun????!!!!!!
Bella - Im good, the most relaxing stress free time after the disapointment of af,for me, is in the middle of AF, so I am good . Started on my fish oil, b6 and pre con vitimans
OP - I would like some info please on charting etc, I have never done it, I brought a BBT thermom today, and I will be natural for the next two cycles, so I would appreciate any advice.
hiya girls i have nothing to do with this thread but i do know a few of you..and i wish you all the the luk in the world.
OP... im popping in to see if i might be able to get some of that info as well im the same as wouldloveabubba going natural till january but till then am willing to try ANYTHING HEHEH thank you very much hun
oh and ive tried that FF charting and i just cant work out that site
Lots of luck to you Bella! When do you have you bt? Or did you mention poas?
Thanks for the luck smithy! I'm au naturale at the moment also, there'll be at least one more natural cycle if there is no luck before IUI in the new year. The naturopath has sent me a chart to complete and directed me to FF for other tips. She said take your temperature very first thing in the morning before getting up, before doing anything. You should have had 3 hours of unbroken sleep prior to this (if your sleep is broken, make a note of it because it might change it slightly). You should take temp at the same time every morning.
Temp will dip immediately prior to ovulation then go up by around 0.4 deg (apparently) for the luteal phase.
That's the basics on temps, but I'm sure there are more things to chart - CM is one thing, it told me when I ovulated this cycle.
If I don't have a bfp this time, I'll be going through the charting bizzo too. good to know there are so many of us on the same road atm.
As WBM says, BBT is dead easy. Get yourself a BBT thermometer from the chemist - they cost about $5.00. You need to be able to see the tenths of a degree. Begin charting anytime in your cycle. It helps if you know what day you're up to (obviously). Have the thermometer by your bed and pop it in your mouth under your tongue as soon as you wake every morning. Don't get out of bed! Don't sit up. Don't go to the loo then come back and do it. You must have the thermometer in your mouth for 4mins to get an accurate reading. Digital thermometers take your temp in 30seconds, but I found them to be unreliable and inconsistent.
Get yourself a chart - I'm digging on the net to find you an existing one. Failing that, just make one up, starting your temps at 35 degrees with lines going up to 38 degrees in increments of one tenth of a degree.
Everybody's BBT is different, but generally we have the same pattern if we are healthy. That little chart WBM included is a good indication of a healthy pattern.
On day one of your cycle (Day 1 of AF) the temp will be around 36.3-ish. It will peak and trough a little over the next fourteen days, then on ovulation day it will drop to 36.2. This is the ideal temp for BDing as sperm is stored at 36.2 in the male body, so they're transferring into a similar environment. CM will be its most stringy on this day.
NOTE: not all of us ovulate on day 14! It's just a rough calculation.
The day following ovulation the temps will take off and escalate up to 36.6 - 37 or thereabouts. Temps will stay up there throughout the luteal phase. If AF is coming, it will be exactly 14 days after ovulation (not sure this rule applies for PCOS or endo ladies). Temp will drop to about 36.5 the day before AF and about 36.3 on the actual day, which signifies the drop in progesterone.
BUT! If you are PG, it won't drop at all! It may even go a bit higher.
After about three months of charting BBT your personal pattern will start to be obvious. We had one cycle where AF was 4 days late and we thought we were PG. Then somebody explained that AF comes exactly 14 days after ovulation, and we realised a) we didn't know this at that point and b) we'd had a late ovulation. We never got caught out on that one again.
I kept BBT charts all the way through IVF because I wanted to know what my body was doing. It twice saved IVF Australia from missing my ovulation and therefore my transfer! More than anything, it helped me understand my body intricately, which in this world of medical intervention I highly value.
Francesca Naish is the Queen of BBT charting. Natural Conception is her book (I put a link to it last week). She also discusses the effects of lunar return on a woman's body - for us, this is like a super secret ingredient and definitely worth researching. Francesca also talks about CM monitoriing extensively. Basically she says you have four days every cycle where you are at your most fertile, with one of those four days being absolutely key.
In terms of natural BDing, I'm sure we all know the two day routine. Dr Ruth Sharkey advocates starting on day 10 of a 28 day cycle, then again on day 12, 14, 16 and if you've still got it in you, every second day until the end of the cycle. She says the fourth shot is the best one - there's lots of debris to clear and by the fourth "clearing" you're getting the freshest and best guys. Dr Shareky also advocates the two day rule because the guys can survive for 48 hours. Since the egg only lives for 12 hours once released, the two day method ensures you've got some guys in there all the time to get to the egg when it's available.
Another point - both Dr Sharkey and Francesca Naish say if full flow AF commences prior to midday, that counts as day one of your cycle. After midday, and the next day is day 1. If you use this approach, most women will find they have a 29.5 day cycle. I found this to be most accurate in my case.
Okey dokey, that's about it. I'll keep looking for a chart form.
Chart Template: go to Natural Fertility Management Click on "Resources" then scroll down to "blank cycle chart". This is a good one as she's got room for CM monitoring too.
:-)
OP.
Last edited by OriginalP; December 15th, 2008 at 07:00 AM.
WBM and Bella - Thinking of you both and fingers crossed for you in yout TWW
Diamond: Hi - I hope your well
Shades - No news before you left for your holiday - hope you are having a lovely time
OP - 7 weeks tommorow - a big milestone - thinking of you and praying that your BT's will reveal wonderful news, are you having a scan this week ?
Thank you so much OP for the info - I have read it a few times and am trying to make sense of it all, I think I get it ! Basically, when charting there is more emphasis on the second numbers after the .point. There is not much difference .3 vs .2 vs .7
I had purchased a digital therm for $24.00 by Surgipack
My temps were 35.56 yesterday and today 36.05 - so I think I am allready bbt challenged, that's a huge jump of .49 - I did feel hot when I woke and I followed instuctions to the letter... Oh well I will keep taking it .. and I will get the jist of it.. I cant wait to get home tonight and have a read through the website you posted. Thanks again OP
Im still here lurking around. I am currently a la natural as well so not too much to add.
Re: charting. I did this also for about 1.5 years. I found this to have a very negative psychological impact on me. Every morning, first thing i would take my temperature. Every night i would worry about what the result would be. Then during the day I would obsess over my chart trying to read a BFP between the lines. It became a pretty consuming thing. When I first met my FS, he advised aganist this method as it only works in retrospect, you only know you have Oed after the fact. However, that being said, I do not experience problems with O and have very regular cycles. Perhaps for PCOS and irregular cycles this will help out. Although I am a little concerned about what you said OP re: IVFAust potentially missing the right time.....
Hi Bella - good luck, i am praying you get the xmas pressie you deserve!!
OP - how are you travelling? When is your next follow up test? Have any symptoms kicked in yet?
WLAB - looks like I will be joining you and Smithy in an IVF cycle soon. I will need all your help and advice as it is my first. Feeling a little scared....
AFM - I have my FS appt today where I am expecting the IVF path. I am currently Day 10, do you think they would allow me to start on this Day 21? Or wait this cycle out until Jan.
LOL WLAB!!! At 36 degrees you are not hot! Your normal body temp is between 36.7 and 37.0. Basal temps are low because you've been at rest for such a long period.
My advice to you is to take the temps, chart the numbers, and don't try and make it mean anything until you have a whole month of charting complete. Did you say you're seeing a naturopath? They love seeing a BBT chart and can analyse it for you.
A word of warning - don't fiddle the numbers. I had mornings where I'd take my temp, decide I didn't like the number, and then I'd take it again and get a different number. If I didn't like that number I'd go with the first one! Lunacy! My point is, the number is what the number is. Just chart it. The only ones you should care about is 36.2 mid cycle (BD for your life!) and the temps after day 21. I forgot to say - the temps will rise from ovulation to 7 days later - our famous Day 21 bloods. So when you see the numbers hit 36.6 or more and stay that way for the end of your cycle, you know you ovulated and your progesterone is at a nice level. And as I said, if the temps don't drop on the 14th day after O and stay that way, then you're looking good.
The only caveat on all my BBT info is I'm not PCOS or Endo - I've got a really straight forward cycle, so this method of monitoring was really simple for me. Anyone who's PCOS or Endo and is consulting a naturopath, maybe you can share with us whether there are any relevant variations for you girls.
AFM: I am worried to pieces. We are praying to see that little jelly bean sitting in the right place on the scan on Friday. We're doing bloods but we're not asking for the results. What's the point? The last lot gave me an anxiety attack. The scan will tell us if we've got an Ectopic. And what we have to do after that will be clear. As I said, we are praying for everything to be in the right place.
Bella - how are you going with your triplets? Very keen to hear your progress!
:-)
OP.
PS - I never met an FS who respected BBT charting. My own ignored the two years worth I offered him. A friend's FS drew a big line through hers and then stated "Well this is useless" before putting it in the bin! I note it's men who say/do this crap. I never met a midwife who poo-pooed BBT charts. Or a naturopath. The trick is not to allow the BBT charting process to become a focal point of obsession. Easier said than done! But honestly, they can save you packets of money in ovulation test and PG test kits. And most importantly, they help a woman know and understand her body, which to me makes them a success whether they help you get pregnant or not.
Last edited by OriginalP; December 16th, 2008 at 11:44 AM.
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Early Pregnancy Clinic
. I don't really feel anything other than sore BB when i push them and i feel soooooooo fat! Last pregnyl shot tom
then officially i am poas Mon 22nd but maybe sat or sun????!!!!!!
hiya girls i have nothing to do with this thread but i do know a few of you..and i wish you all the the luk in the world.
. Waiting waiting waiting!!!!!!!!!
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