LTTTC after Miscarriage and Loss

Thanks Saffy :)

Crafty...you should be home soon...how'd it go??

T-Hopes- its actually normal for most of mens sperm to be abnormal my DH has 95% abnormal sperm and my old FS said that is fine between 2 and 6 normal forms is considered normal at SIVF on there scale but my new FS said she would like to see 9-15% normal morphology the thing that they also look for is sperm count and motility my DH had 477 million total count and 117 million per mil then after they did the wash test his count was 57 million ( if i remembered right i am going from memory) his motility is excellent something like 87% and after 1 hour and wash test it was still about 60%-70% motility so they said the amount DH has and the motility makes up for the lower morphology.
Your DH having 92% abnormal leaves 8% normal which is normal from SIVF standards it depends on the total count after wash and the motility if your DH is considered ok or not if his count was 62 million total count well thats not real bad either the FS like to see anything above 20 million per mil.
What mildez said is based on the WHO criteria which states 15% or above to be normal but sydney IVF lab use a grading system that gives you a score and between 2% and 6% and in their lab it is considered normal my DH was 4% right in the middle.
Where westmead IVF use a different grading system and they consider 15% or above normal so if your doctor is not worried then don't be mine told me the amout DH has and his motility we should have no problems getting pregnant but yet here we are still trying so i don't know what to believe
I have put my DH on SPERM MAX ( alice for you also) to see if that helps but to be honest my new FS wasnt even fussed to get DH tested again she isn't worried said we had great fertilisation results before and we fell pregnant before with Abbi so not to worry about it.
And my Naturopath Catherine Chan (famous for getting older ladies pregnant and been on TV) was not worried with DH results was more concerned with DNA damage from our fragmented embryos due to DNA in the sperm so i am at a loss who to believe.

Alice/mathewsmum-I have read somewhere that women with blocked tubes have trouble with embryos sticking because the blocked tubes can secreat a fluid into the uterus that can prevent embryos sticking have you heard that?

Alice-I would have done the same i shop in a different suburb so i don't run into my horrible step SIL and her baby that i still havn't seen he is 8 months old now and i have absolutely no desire to do so.
So i decided to do what is best for me and the best way for me to cope is avoidance.

Crafty-how did you go?
AFM-5 days until AF due so getting excited to finally start this IVF god i hope i make it onto the june list but knowing the luck i have had with this whole ttc nightmare i won't get to start until july i hope this time i get to have a little luck on my side surely it has to change sooner or later when i look back on the last 15 months we have not had one thing go our way.
I brought a 3pkt of 1st response hpt today so if AF doesn't turn up tuesday i will test then but i am 99% sure its a lost cause my body has failed me again at least i can bet money on the fact that i can have as much unpretected sex as i want and not fall pregnant

Ferrals, thanks for that info, it is really helpful, especially as I am getting DHs full pathology posted to me from our FS (you got me motivated to do this when you got all your papers from SIVF). And just to add a note to your comments, my TCM practitioner says the only trustworthy place to have sperm analysed in Sydney is through SIVF so I'd be going with whatever they say 'cause they are they have the best technology apparently and their results are the most reliable.

Yes, I have heard about that and have also heard that some FSs operate to take away the remaining blocked tube to ensure this doesn't happen. My TCM practitioner says it is the main thing stopping me falling pg which is why she strongly recommends antibiotics and is giving me heaps of herbs to try and dry out the tube. The fluid you are referring to Ferrals is from having a hypersalpinx (or something like that) and it's when the blocked tube fills with fluid and is released during your cycle. It was because of that symptom (I would get an unexpected rush of water/fluid in the middle of my cycle) that I kept going back to my GP to tell her something was wrong. Well she thought I was being an anxious TTCer and said it was nothing - turns out it was the sign of hypersalpinx and the reason we couldn't fall pg (the tube basically blocked then turned itself inside out due to the amount of fluid in there). I had it removed with my endo operation but he was reluctant to take out the other blocked tube for obvious reasons but maybe it's better out. Sorry for the ramble.

Yah, 5 days - hope you get on that list! You deserve a break Ferrals, I know you're probably sick of reading that but you do and i hope it's getting onto that list. Fingers crossed. And if not, then I hope it's getting UTD next cycle.:hug:

Sunbeam- wonderful news!! I know that wonderful feeling of just staring at those two lines!



to everyone else, thanks so much for the warm welcome. You are a lovely group. The year long break was hard, but I was so ill at first I knew it was for the best. I hated it at the start and was depressed, but looking back I can see that the break did me good, and not just physically- I had just had so much loss and issues and the break made me regain a life outside TTC and gave me time to heal emotionally and regroup somewhat (as best you can when you still long for a baby).
I will need clexane injections when I am pregnant again, and will be considered high risk with constant monitoring. First hurdle is to get there...my remaining tube is evidently in bad shape, which is why we were sent to IVF in the first place, but it has worked once before, so you never know!

Crafty-Come on girl we are waiting hurry up and feed those kiddies and get on line.

Possums-I know what you mean about being high risk and need constant monitoring as soon as we get our BFP i need to ring westmead hospital head genetisist and let them know so they can organise the genetic testing then i need to ring royal north shore fetal medicine unit to organise with the professor to have an early dating scan as it is very important that i get my dates exactly on the dot then they book me in for a cvs at 11-12 weeks and i have to wait a week for the results to see if bub is affected with SLO if it comes back negative i still have to be monitored as the cvs is not 100% it is pretty close but sometimes the test for faulty genes fails to detect it unlikely but possible so after an early morphology scan at 16 weeks we should be all clear and hopefully i wont have to have an amnio that hurt's.
So i know the feeling of a pregnancy being more of a medical condition rather than an enjoyable condition.
I hope the 12 month break has done you good and you get your healthy bub soon.

oh dear :( Crafty, I hope it wasn't bad news and hope you've just had a super busy night with your little ones. Thinking of you x

No Crafty Yet?

Alice- thats interesting about the hydrosalpinx, I haven't heard of that before. You and your Dh sound like you are very disciplined with diets etc so hopefully that and the antibiotics will do the trick! xx
Ferals- hope you get onto the June list, or even better get a bfp first! xx
sunbeam- hope everything is feeling good with you xx
Crafty- hope all went well xx
afm- visited a friend w a new baby yesterday which was fine but as I was leaving she started asking me about ivf and offering 'advice' ( this is a friend who gets UTD veeeery easily) so by the time I ran out the door and got to my car I was crying and bawled my eyes out all the way to the blood test I was going to,grrrr so annoyed with myself and don't even know why I got upset.
Off to work in a minute, hope everyone has a great weekend! xx

:( Saffy, I know it's terribly hard - I'm sure your friend means well but she just has no idea. It can be very hard for women who have no problems TTC to understand the complexity of the problems we face - if only relaxing would grow back or unblock our tubes, or unstick our ovaries, or fix our low egg reserve, or push our biological clocks backwards, or give us the extra $$ we need for IVF, or fix our DH's sperm, or stop our immune systems attacking our embies, or our blood from clotting, or the million other things we all face in here. it is so upsetting and so damn frustrating! If it was that easy, don't they think we might have already tried it???!!! I hope your day at work is OK, :hug:

Crafty...hoping to hear from you soon x

hi all, saffy-hugs,you were brave going to see her in the 1st place...alice-you need to do what is best for your heart,i've hid & avoided pregnant ladies,it is just too hard sometimes,maybe write down some responses on paper before the call...ferral-yes,i've heard about fluid leaking out,gyno & fs didn't seem to think this would be the case with me,i've got to speak to ivf nurse today,i think i'll ask her opinion as well...crafty-wondering??.afm-worrying about embie thawing tomorrow,heard some stories of people getting phone calls half way to clinic,told none have survived

MatthewsMum - thanks, I've had time to think it through now so feeling OK about it. My FS is likewise not concerned about there being fluid in the remaining blocked tube...I really don't know about it as other FS remove to avoid possibility of low level infections. I'd be careful asking the nurse coordinator as the nurses told me my grade 1 blasties didn't make it past day 3 because of the quality of my DHs sperm and when I told FS that he was categorical in saying that it wasn't correct...but because my DH still smokes, it really upset me to hear it, so sometimes it can just be confusing. Maybe better getting a second opinion from a different FS, which is something I've never done.

And don't you go worrying that none of your blasties will thaw - the thawing is much better now than it used to be and I only ever lost one to thawing out of 8 so the chances are very low you would loose them all - that's just understandable nerves and fear. All will be well with your little frosties, promise x And remember what I said to MurrayCod - my doc once said to me "you could have your whole family in the freezer"! Now that's a happy thought!! Hope you've got room in the house for nine more!! :)

:cry: Well I am here but not my usual happy self to be honest my eyes are so puffy I can hardly see the screen.
Well very nice guy and his female sideline but the news is not what I wanted to hear. Basically he went through the whole process of ageing and the egg difference between a 25yr old and a 45yr old ( as if I didn't know ) He then asked me if I had thousands of dollars I didn't need to spend on getting a 2% chance of getting pregnant
instead of a 1% that I have anyway ! He said a big fat NO to IVF for my age and with me having kids anyway.
He told me I can still get pregnant if I get a good egg but if and when I get one he couldn't tell me he suggested
DH take menevit and draw a line in the sand and not waste anymore money and get used to the fact my body may
not produce a good egg and I may not get pregnant again but its not impossible as I was pregnant last sept.
He offered me counciling as he said my miscarriage has really left a huge whole in my life but there was nothing
he could do to improve what is 45yrs old and its natures way really.
He told me to draw a line in the sand and step over it and embrace my comming years and not be so obsessed
with TTC and if a miracle happens then so be it !!!
I felt like I had just gone though my mc again all the tears and the hurt and realization that this really is it I have to
get to grips with it and accept 1% chance and then 50% to 70% chance of another miscarriage so trying really hard
to get my head around this but failing miserably need more time im afraid,:hiding:

thanks alice,i've only got 6 in the freezer,we'd find room though...i was told the same regarding my day3 embies,by one of the scientiests...

Oh Crafty :( :( I'm so sorry, take as much time as you need, we are here for you no matter what :comfort: xxxoooo

oh crafty, i just want to come and give you a big hug so I'm going to send you heaps of virtual hugs and cuddles.

Hi Ladies

Saffy - I agree with Alice. It is so easy for people who don't have fertility issues to give "advise". I'm sure it's all ment with concern and a sence of trying to be supportive but you really get tired of the "advise". I had our QLD Operations manager tell me he only had to look at his wife and she got pregnant. This was just after I told him that I will be having time off for IVF and felt that as Management he needed to know. He then proceded to tell me all about his sister's fertility as well. I really don't care to hear that considering I know I have a problem. Geez.

Once we start IVF I will not be telling any family or friends about it. They ask too many questions and I found out that it is openly discussed with extended family on DH side. I'm talking about his cousin whom I really don't know and would definately NOT tell him and his wife besides the fact that he and his wife are pregnant and they feel "sorry" for us because they fell straight away. Well bully for them. Gee that turned into a bit of a story eh?

Matthews Mum - I'm sure it will all be fine. It's natural to worry. Good luck for tomorrow! I'll be checking in to see how you are.

Alice - I'm glad your feeling much better about it now. I think you needed to prepare yourself and how to react. I hope it all goes well. I'm sure you'll be sad when it's done but you are a very strong woman and we will be here for you to tough it out.

Crafty - Oh my. What a terrible thing to have to sit through and listen to. Take as much time as you need. :hug:

AFM not much. Did I mention I got a + OPK on Wednesday? Hmmm Can't remember and I can't go back a few pages lol Ahh well anywho I hope I O tonight as I usually O 2 days after a + OPK. I'm abit nervous actually cause I'm not 100% sure it was +. I'm hoping for a temp rise tomorrow to confirm but I really don't know. Doesn't matter I guess because its 3 days till our appointment.

crafty-i'm so sorry,i'd look into the councelling ,i found it helpful,thanks for coming on and letting us know,give those kids of yours huge hugs,let them give you some of their strength which they have got from you.Remember he didn't say it was impossible,huge hugs

Crafty as Alice said take as much time as you need. I think there is every chance of a miracle in there.

Saffy (((hugs)))

Crafty, it is so hard hearing things in cold hard statistics. I've often said to my DH is there anything else in life where you would spend this much money on the hope of such a small percentage of it working. But they are matters of the heart, and not so easy to quantify. I was also told I have a 50% chance of mc any pg I achieve...it is a stark fact to hear but again, inside me, I think that if it is a one in two chance then I've already had one so maybe next time will be different. Because we can't stop hoping - it is in our natures to hope. I think when miscarriage comes so close to the end our child bearing years, it has another dimension to it that makes it even harder to accept. I found counseling very helpful and I am still grieving, as you know that you are too. It will take a long time but like MatthewsMum said, hold onto those kiddies of yours, you are a beautiful mother, and let them give back to you some of the love you have given them in bringing them into the world. Thinking of you xxx

Soooo, it's time for a new thread already!