When does the baby's soul enter the body?

[milly5]

I just wondered if anyone else had read "Spirit Babies" by Walter Makichen?

[Nettie]

I believe the divine spirit or the energy of the universe resides in our DNA which is why I cannot bring myself to approve of DNA testing, mapping the genome, etc.

Therefore the 'soul' begins when the cells first split and DNA is formed. This is when the spirit that is choosing you as it's Mummy, begins to reside in those cells. I hope this makes sense - it's a hard concept to explain!

I hope I never get arrested for a suspected crime and get asked to provide my DNA because I would refuse on spiritual grounds. I completely understand the value in solving crimes - but I don't want my divine spark being analysed. It would feel like spiritual rape to me

[AnyDream]

Possums, I would love to get the chance to observe what happens energetically with an IVF conception...a couple of my friends have fallen pregnant this way but naturally have only shared teh news once the pregnancy is well established.

muminalice - definitely agree that young children are much more perceptive, some probably more than others. My eldest DD was born with noticeable marks on her third eye and her incarnation chakra (that's the one at the back of your neck, at the base of your skull...the very last exit point when you die) and when she was younger she used to make all sorts of freaky pronouncements, especially about my deceased grandmother, astral travelling, and even past life info. My youngest DD is much more physically grounded and has never talked about those sorts of things.

Rurumummy, thanks for sharing. I didn't know that was the Islamic belief, but I find it very interesting. Does Islam have any teachings about miscarriage or terminations that make a distinction based on the 40 days? The Christian church teaches that the soul blinks into existence at conception, and there is no consensus about what this means for the souls of miscarried or aborted babies. Not sure how the other major religions respond to that question either.

Nettie, that is a really interesting perspective regarding the DNA. My own belief (and observation which is now born out by medical science) is that DNA is not static...it can both degrade (as in diseases like cancers, etc) and also be repaired, and I believe can also evolve within a single person's lifetime. Do you have any thoughts about that?

ETA Milly no I haven't heard of it, what is it about?

[Nettie]

MD - our souls don't stay static and can degrade or evolve also. The enigma of DNA is the mystery of magic.. it will never be sufficiently explained or be able to be completely replicated or successfully cloned as it comes direct from the divine. Hope that all makes sense!

Sorry to hijack Possums We can start a new topic if MD wants to keep discussing it

[rurumummy]

Rurumummy, thanks for sharing. I didn't know that was the Islamic belief, but I find it very interesting. Does Islam have any teachings about miscarriage or terminations that make a distinction based on the 40 days? The Christian church teaches that the soul blinks into existence at conception, and there is no consensus about what this means for the souls of miscarried or aborted babies. Not sure how the other major religions respond to that question either.

Yes in islam if the baby is miscarried after the 40 days it is to have a proper islamic funeral as it is considered a human with a soul
also although abortion is forbidden in islam if it had to be done for reasons like rape,extreme health reasons etc.. then it is to be done as soon as possible like before the 40 days as it is still only a forming mass and not a human yet with a soul and heart beat.

[Indadhanu]

I believe that it occurs at conception - at the moment where the sperm and the egg meet, the energy that makes the cells 'combine' (so technical I know) and become the first cells of the baby, is the 'soul' or spirit. It follows my belief in one of the law of physics - conservation of energy: energy is neither created nor destroyed. I believe that the energy it takes to create a baby from a sperm and an egg comes from the spirit.

It's interesting reading everyone's thoughts and beliefs.

[Cassius2]

for me, i have a strong belief that the soul of our children are in existence before egg meets sperm. that like PP have mentioned, they come and go. attach - detach. go on to grow in our wombs or leave. that they can come back.

i'll explain briefly parts of my journey that bring this belief. almost 10 years ago i had a miscarriage. i was 8ish weeks pg and didnt know it, and then the loss happened. the emotion and connection to that soul that i experienced was immense. it stayed with me for years. many years. i could never forget her. in my dreams, in my decisions. then i had Leila (DD1). but the soul i lost wasnt her. Leila is a gorgeous happy go lucky kid with a psychic penchant...annoying when you are trying to 'surprise' her for her birthday lol! but she is a different soul to the baby i lost almost 10 years ago. leila is a young soul...on a fast learning curve spiritually.

then i fell pg again. the connection. immediate, scary, heady, awesome. after many many years i felt grounded again. she was back and i had this wonderful chance to meet her again. but then life and pregnancy went on and i (sort of) left her to grow. there were times when the connection would come again to the fore (which i guess might feed into MaryDean's info on the sould coming and going and coming back!). i protected this little soul with all my might. we went through a desperate loss of my Oma and how fiercely i protected her from it (especially projections from others that she was a gift from Oma...ah no, she was here well long before that people lol).
then the birth. it was a spiritual magical journey like no other. we were both so present for eachother on a level outside of this reality (best way to describe it). only now am i realising that extent as DH informs me that entire conversations that i had were not with them . we were able to talk to eachother through that process and i was able to comfort her through that as well. intense beauty like no other!

she was born with the cord around her neck, so tight. she took her first breath at one minute, but there was no fear. no one else except her and i existed in that moment and our conversation continued.

like other posters she is born with the markings (as i was and continue to have). she is an old soul. i can now see that there is a connection to Oma, but it is not Oma's to give. this baby has been around for a loonng time. i know where she has been before, i just wish Oma was here so that i could tell her...

one of the first things that i have been told by other people who have seen Marta that understand this kind of stuff is how scary intense she is with her aura. to me, she is perfect. i feel like the ying to my yang has arrived and i can breath. it's totally weird.

so to provide some of my personal insight to Possum's original post: those souls IMO are there baby! they choose when to attach and i reckon your acupuncturist is amazing in bringing your attention to your own aura and baby's. what a gift!

[LionsandBears]

like other posters she is born with the markings (as i was and continue to have). she is an old soul. i can now see that there is a connection to Oma, but it is not Oma's to give. this baby has been around for a loonng time. i know where she has been before, i just wish Oma was here so that i could tell her...

one of the first things that i have been told by other people who have seen Marta that understand this kind of stuff is how scary intense she is with her aura. to me, she is perfect. i feel like the ying to my yang has arrived and i can breath. it's totally weird.

Oh wow - I can totally see this in Marta. I thought of her marks when I read the above threads. I've thought since I met her what a remarkable little soul she is. There's something delightful about her, but it's not just a cute baby thing (though she is a cute baby!). It's something else. You know I can never resist her She's definitely an old soul.

[fi1980]

What an interesting thread!

I am really not too sure when he soul enters the body but I think it is very early, most likely at conception. It is something that my & DH have often pondered.

I believe that the souls choose to be our babies. I believe this because when I first fell pregnant with DD (we were trying but I hadn't tested positive at that stage) I had a sort of vision where something/someone came to me and told me that they had chosen to be my child and that everything would be ok. It was a very calming and positive experience. From that moment on I knew I was pregnant and that this baby was here to stay.

I'm also interested in the stalk marks. My daughter has them both on her forehead and the back of her head/base of the skull and I thought they would have disappeared by now but they haven't. Interestingly, I believe and regularly get told that she is an old soul and that she has been here before.

[nickle730]

My eldest DD was born with noticeable marks on her third eye and her incarnation chakra (that's the one at the back of your neck, at the base of your skull...the very last exit point when you die)

I don't mean to hijack, but Marydean can you elaborate? My little DD still has reddish marks on her forehead (in the middle, a sort of V-shape down to between her eyebrows) and the base of her skull (a smudge into her hairline). She was not an assisted delivery, but initially I thought they were caused by her passage through the birth canal. They are always distinguishable, but sometimes more noticeable than others. I had thought nothing of them, particularly as my DS, my DD and I all have the same smudge at the base of our skull. I am amazed at the number of people who tell me she is either 'knowing' or 'an old soul'. When she was born she delivered face up and my MW was about to turn her but DD looked at her, blinked and turned herself. The MW was astounded and said she had never seen such a deliberate act in a birthing baby. The MW was the first person to call DD an 'old soul' and kept visiting us on the ward because she said she was 'drawn' to her in a way she couldn't explain. I now look at my tiny little DD and I swear I see my great grandmother (who died about 12 years ago) in her eyes. My mother finally told me she has seen the same in my DD yesterday (she didn't want to freak me out!).

Anyway, I waffle... I just wondered at the significance of the marks?

Rurumummy, thank you for sharing the beliefs of Islam. I didn't know of that particular belief before and I'm always interested to learn new things! Is there a reason for the specific 40 days, is that stated in the Koran? Is 40 days the absolute belief of Islam or is it more specifically when the heart starts to beat?

Possums... sorry to hijack, happy to take it elsewhere if you are bothered!!