Using better nutrition to help with depression & mental health - need advice! please?

[Conundrum]

Hi everyone,

ETA: I am a current member of BB, but have decided to create an alias to keep my mental health issues private - which I'm sure you understand in this day and age anyone searching the internet can find out a lot of information about you, and this very personal side of my life i choose to be very selective of who i tell. Thanks for your understanding. This has been cleared with the mods.

I have a few questions, which are all a bit jumbled in my head, so bear with me whilst i try and get them all out. I current suffer from severe major depression. I am on high levels on anti-depressant medication (effexor). I have just started with a new psychiatrist, who believes my depression is under treated, or i may have bipolar, and wants to start me on a mood stabiliser, sodium valproate (sold as Epilim), as i have still quite unstable depression, with mood swings.

I have so many issues underlying my depression (abusive childhood etc), but i also have real issues with eating and looking after myself. I do want to change this though, and that's why I'm putting myself through this.

My psychologist gave me a book to read "Optimum Nutrition for the Mind" by Patrick Holford, which was a very interesting read. I have a science degree, and I have to say quite skeptical of the 'health and well-being industry' in general, as i feel they pray on people's ignorance and don't back up their claims with scientific evidence.

This book was referenced with a lot of decent studies, about the effects on mental illness and your mind that optimal nutrition can do. I have come to discover some of this myself. I know if i skip 2 meals in a row I am a mess mood wise, it plummets very very quickly (in minutes almost) and I'm on the couch sobbing having terrible thoughts. I have real problems eating regularly, and even though I'm 20kg overweight after having 2 children and being on medication with side effects, i believe i could very easily have an eating disorder if only i had more self control! I don't trust myself that i care about my body in anyway, and would have no problems damaging it severely being anorexic or bulimic given the opportunity and self control).

I have very bad sugar cravings, and typical junk food (fried fatty food) when emotional. I know i emotionally eat, or not eat, and i would like some help working on that.

I am currently not taking any vitamins and minerals. I spoke to my dieitician, who i haven't seen over 10 months due to other problems in my life it took a back role, but i was trying to work with her on a better attitude to food, and how to eat better (for me and the whole family). I wanted her to make me a meal plan (i am not well enough to make it for myself, unless i have what to eat written down for me i just sit here and eat nothing, or snack, because I'm so overwhelmed by preparing food).

I also mentioned that i wanted all my vitamins and mineral levels tested, so i could choose an appropriate multi-vitamin. She said go to my GP and come and see her with the results. The only ones she said to test for were:
- Zinc
- Vit D
- Iron
- Folic Acid

I figured if i was getting it done anyway, I might as well get everything tested. So, question 1 is - what can they test for? What is common to have tested other than this?

Also, in the book the mentioned other things for people with some of my symptoms to supplement. As a scientist, i know that vitamins and mineral supplements only work if you a deficient in that item, and there are side effects from pumping huge amounts of these things through your body, and you shouldn't just be taking these that are 400x the RDI without guidance. The book says that people with mental illness or other problems can have up to a 5x higher need for certain minerals, vitamins etc, than normal people, but qn 2 is 'how can i tell what my requirement is - i don't want toi take huge levels of things (some of these are not just excreted, they are stored and can be toxic"

The other vitamins/minerals the author recommends monitoring are:

- B group vitamins
- B 12
- Vit C
- Magnesium
- Manganese
- Calcium
- Chromium
- Essential fatty acids
- Trytophan
- Tyrosine

And to take a supplement with

- beta carotene (is this part of the B group vitamins)
- Vitamin E
- Selenium
- glutathione
- anthocyanidins
- lipoic acid
- co enyme Q


Are these testable? I don't like the idea of just taking them without finding out that I need them. And the second list, how common are they to find in supplements?

He also recommends a neurotransmitter screening test, to find out if your are deficient in some neurotransmitters, and a hair mineral analysis, to check for heavy metals in your system Qn 3 - Do they do this here (the book is English)? Where do i go to get it done.

He also talks about food allergies playing a major role in behavior and mood. I have eczema and asthma, and have had the patch testing for my eczema, but it was mainly plant and chemicals that i was tested for (all negative). Qn 4 - Do they do patch testing for food allergies? Who do i ask for a referral for to test me for food allergies An elimination diet is too hard for me (realistically) and my mood is so variable anyway it would be hard for the results to be conclusively put down to my diet.

Also, i tried searching for a clinical nutritionalist who can be in charge of this area of my life, but it seems that it is different in Australia to England and that most dieiticans are nutritionalist. Qn 5 - Are dieiticians here experienced in this in depth side of things, or who should i be searching for here? I would like somebody with a scientific background and an interest in mental health in possible, and i would like them to be part of my Gp-dieitican-psychologist-psychiatrist team looking after me.

Ok, i think that's all for now. Many thanks in advance for your time and your replies.

[Junglemum]

i don't know where you are located or how you feel about naturopaths, but there is a naturopath in Croyden, Vic called Peter Alley. He is fantastic with food intolerances and allergies. If you are not near him, them perhaps you could call and ask if he recommended anyone near you. I know when his daughter was young he took her to a DR in Sydney who dealt with food intolerances. He has been great helping my family with food issues as well as depression.

I'm sorry i don't have answers to your questions. How did you go at the Drs?

ETA- PM me if you want his number.

[Cassius2]

yeah on a side note, i made a connection quite early on with my PND between my vitamin taking and my moods. took alot longer also to realise that i was also anaemic and it was playing havoc with my energy (both physical and mental).

so, in short, yep. i reckon that a healthy diet with loads of nutrition does make a difference in giving you strength and energy to recover.

to this day i ALWAYS make sure that i have good quality vits in my cabinet that are taken daily, along with triple dose iron (the latter for the anaemia though...)

[sneakysparkle]

I'm sorry I can't answer your questions, but had some thoughts to contribute...

Sorry if this is a bit jumbled! Lately I've been watching documentaries etc on wellness - mainly stuff put out by Food Matters (you can google) and one thing that struck me was when they were talking about natural medicines and "vitamin therapies." They were saying how people get so wary of using vitamins and minerals as treatment, but don't think twice about trying out manufactured drugs!
I thought it was an interesting point that we trust chemicals and synthetic materials but not things that occur naturally iykwim?

Anyway, one particular doco talked about B vitamins and Omega 3's being particularly beneficial for depression etc - so I think its worth you investigating these things!

I hope you find something that works for you, all the best.

[Tish]

Hi! I am seeing a clinical psychologist, and have recovered from (quite bad) depression and PND without ADs.

I can list for you the things I have been told to do, and also some extra things I figured out for myself.

Told to do

Proper nutrition:

Always eat breakfast, if possible include protein
Generally, make sure you are getting enough protein
Eat 5 meals a day, breakfast, morning tea, lunch, afternoon tea, dinner (supper if you need it)
Eat dinner earlier in the evening and have supper later if you need
Avoid sugar (blood sugar levels all over the place can affect moods)
Drink at least 2 litres of water a day.

Omega 3 oils 3 times a day helps with mood..

These were general nutrition tips given to me by my psych.

Exercise:

Do something at least 3 times a week, even if it is only walking. Getting the blood pumping helps mood, endorphins etc.

Rest:

If you feel tired, rest. Nap if you need to but try not to do it too late in the day so it affects your sleep patterns.

Cognitive:

Practice positive thought about yourself: every day I write 5 things I have done well, or that are positive generally.

This is general stuff from me

I find sugar is addictive, and i need to go cold turkey on it. After I haven't had it for a few days it is fine (until I feel I have to comfort eat, but that's another story).

You say you feel overwhelmed by preparing food, and I do some days too. Even my psych didn't understand this, so it's nice that you do too

Good snacks that don't require any preparation I find are...

(These might sound a bit gross to others, but I think at least it's better than me eating chocolate)

A handful of nuts
Avocado and tomato on toast
Canned salmon on toast with avocado
Or just salmon out of the can if i feel really bad
Fruit, especially filling ones like banana
V8 juice - good for you no preparation
Yoghurt (especially Jalna)
A protein shake

Hopefully this has given you some ideas.

Recently I've started on not so much a "diet" but a different way of eating. Basically it involves leaving out a few food groups for a few days and then adding them back in later in smaller amounts. The good thing is that you can eat as much as you want of all the other stuff. I've probably done a bad job of explaining that, but anyway! If you'd like to know more about it PM me and I can tell you.

Basically I have a lot more energy and also hunger and food cravings are more stable if that makes sense? I did also lose weight with it, if you're interested in that.

Anyway, I hope this has helped a bit. If I remember any of the other stuff I've been told to do I'll post back

I hope you have found some good help that's working for you.

Cheers,
Tish

[Lulu]

Hi Conundrum,

I have a great book from my study days called Nutritional Medicine by Dr Stephen Davies and Dr Alan Stewart. I refer to it often, it has all the recommended intakes and discussed interactions of same.

I could answer all your qu's but that would require an awful lot of typing and my brain has melted.

xoxoxoox

[amy_o]

First up I am not a medical professional or even an expert. What I share is simply what I have learnt from my own many years as a Mental Health consumer.

I am on high levels on anti-depressant medication (effexor). I have just started with a new psychiatrist, who believes my depression is under treated, or i may have bipolar, and wants to start me on a mood stabiliser, sodium valproate

First up I suggest you do some serious reading in to Efexor or Efexor XR a few years ago they under went a drug recall because of the side effects. Also if it is a new med for you you will not see an improvement for around 6-8weeks as Efexor has one of the longest build up times out there. There are many newer drugs that are being used with success.

As far as Sodium Valproate goes it will only help if there is a mood disorder, if not it is a nothing. The downside is that for the first weeks when it is building up the side effects can be massive. I lost my hair!!! Literally! I would suggest making sure that there is a proper mood disorder before going down that road. Remember clinical depression can have mood swings. That doesn't make it Bipolar.

As far as the natural stuff goes, I do see a homeopath for managing the side effects of my medications. She is accredited by the national body and works in tandum with all the other people who seem to have a stake in my mental status!! I would suggest contacting the state organisation of homeopaths to see who they can recommend.

I know this is probably too little too late but I hope it can be of some help.

Amy xoxo

[toodamntired]

I suffer from severe depression, anxiety and ongoing 24 hour migraines. To try to combat this I take 375mg Effexor-XR , 60mg Oxycontin twice a day and 200 mg of Topamax twice a day.

There is an alternate to Epilim called Topamax that I currently take. I was given the option of either Epilim or Topamax.

The side effects of Epilim include weight gain (in most takers) headaches, nausea, tiredness and hair loss. Side effects of Topamax include weight loss.
To be bald and fat was definatelty not going to help my depression,so I chose the Topomax. The only effect I have found is slight tiredness with each increase of dose.
For me the Topamax has a twofold effect, it is also used as a migaraine preventitive.
Hope this helps. Don't let them bully you into the Epilim. Especially if they are old Doctors. Just because its been round for 100 years (as an anti epileptic) does not mean it is the best for this job.

[amy_o]

Although I didn't get in to the MIMS site I did have a bit of a quick read and from what I can gather topamax is NOT used in Australia yet for Bipolar/mood stabliser. As far as I know there are only the 3 drugs, Epilim, Lithium and Seroquel (even this needs authority for the high doses needed). I did read that in the states they have had limited success and the FDA are still pending approval as a mood stabliser.
I think what you are using it for toodamntired and what conundrum would be using it for are too different things. JMO though.

[luna moth]

I think that you can't go wrong with a high fibre, low-fat wholefoods diet.

And, as Tish says, exercise absolutely helps, particularly outdoor exercise. Find something you enjoy, and do it daily, even if it's only for 10 minutes, and try to add three weekly half-hour sessions. It really does make a huge difference. Walking with your partner is particularly good for your relationship.

A homeopath might be someone you want to see - they are qualified medical doctors, so have that sort of scientific backing, and generally are able to help you. I don't think you'd get a meal plan from one though. A naturopath might. My naturopath here in Brissy is also a qualified nutritionist, and would definitely do one - it would be worth scouting around for someone who does both. As a kid, I went to a homeopath, and based on physical symptoms, he could predict food cravings that I might have, and was right.

I was like you too, very uncertain about who to trust with this sort of thing, it can seem a bit airy-fairy, but there are natural medicine practitioners out there who are also qualified and not just quacking.

Check out your local library for some Rosemary Stanton cookbooks - most have a lot of great, simple information on nutrition.

[barley]

there is a lab in england which you may find helpful biolab.co.uk.

[littlelara]

I realise I'm coming in to this really late, but I discovered a vitamin called wellwoman from the uk that has been awsome from me, and the gla's really help with my mood swings. Worth a look
Good luck, I hope you're ok