Do you use an "H" harness with your booster?

**OceanPrincess** · May 5th, 2014, 01:58 PM

Did you know that VicRoads recommends you don't? If your car has a lap-sash seatbelt, the one that goes from shoulder to opposite hip, with a lap belt as well, then they recommend not using any sort of additional child safety harness.

Are child safety harnesses recommended?
No. A child safety harness is difficult to use and fit correctly and is commonly misused. Incorrect use of the child safety harness can cause the seatbelt to ride up into the child's stomach area, which may cause injury or death to a child in a crash.

Do not use a child safety harness where a lap-sash seatbelt is available. Research recommends using a child safety harness only in situations where it is not possible to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt.

If you are not able to replace your lap-only seatbelt with a lap-sash seatbelt you will need to use a child safety harness with a booster seat. In this case, it is recommended to use a booster seat with an anti-submarining feature to hold the lap part of the seatbelt down low on the child’s hips.

From VicRoads - Child Safety Harnesses

We've currently got them on DD's Boston Hipod. Think I might be removing them...

**CoNNiE_Melb** · May 5th, 2014, 02:07 PM

I read that a while ago and removed it. It was always a PIA to get on and off him each time, so I didn't need too much convincing.

**~clover~** · May 5th, 2014, 02:09 PM

I did use one when DS was younger. I agree, I hated using it, but thought it the best option. Glad they make seats for older kids now with the 5 point harness.

**MummyNaomi** · May 5th, 2014, 09:09 PM

Hmmm, we do, for both kids, the lap seatbelt bit does ride up a bit too, will have a look tomorrow to see where they sit on the kids

**feeb** · May 5th, 2014, 09:31 PM

Used for DS1 until he was 5. DS2 has been in a booster since he was 4 and a bit with H harness but lots of fiddling to sit right on him as he doesn't seem to be as broad across shoulders as DS1 was at same age so if not right slides if shoulders.

**wysiwyg** · May 5th, 2014, 10:29 PM

I have been looking at car seats all day and now I am totally and completely confused. If they have a convertible booster can they stay in the harness? Or once their shoulders hit the top of the change to booster marker is it safest to move them to the lap-sash belt. Or is it a combination of this plus a weight rating? If you have to move them once they hit the booster marker it seems odd to have such a young child in a lap sash belt only (DS is almost at the middle of the change to booster marker in DD's seat and isn't 3 yet).

**wysiwyg** · May 5th, 2014, 10:36 PM

double post

**~clover~** · May 6th, 2014, 09:49 AM

I'll be keeping dd in the 5 point harness as long as I can. She'll be 4 in October, but is quite small, so I should be able to pull it off for longer.

It was only a few years ago my 3/4 year old was sitting on the seat with just a lap sash belt & now I'm trying to keep dd in her booster til she's 10!

**~ Zarava Flutterby ~** · May 6th, 2014, 11:27 AM

I've just put a post on the Britax page - we have the maxi-riders for both the girls and both are above 18kg - I just assumed while they were within the height of the 5 point harness that that would be the safest option... Oops.
I think we might be swapping them to the lap sash - I wont be buying the H Harness as I had also heard (and thanks for the reminder) that it was safer to just use the lap sash only with these boosters.

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 12:33 PM

I've just put a post on the Britax page - we have the maxi-riders for both the girls and both are above 18kg - I just assumed while they were within the height of the 5 point harness that that would be the safest option... Oops.
I think we might be swapping them to the lap sash - I wont be buying the H Harness as I had also heard (and thanks for the reminder) that it was safer to just use the lap sash only with these boosters.

I wish had never looked into this - looking at Britax reply on your FB - I am loosing faith in any of the info out there. Infasecure have stopped selling their harness due to the VicRoads guidelines - but Britax seem to still be promoting their Protecta Harness - unless their is something special about theirs?

**black_rose** · May 6th, 2014, 11:34 AM

Both my girls where in them after outgrowing their 5 point harnesses, they would escape a normal seatbelt too easily. With ds the new boosters with higher shoulder slots for the 5 point harness he is still in it at almost 4, he should still be in it for a while as he still has one more slot to go much prefer that to the H harness.

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 11:52 AM

Both my girls where in them after outgrowing their 5 point harnesses, they would escape a normal seatbelt too easily. With ds the new boosters with higher shoulder slots for the 5 point harness he is still in it at almost 4, he should still be in it for a while as he still has one more slot to go much prefer that to the H harness.

This is the bit I don't understand at all - nearly all convertible boosters I have seen have harness slots higher than the change to booster mark - but when I asked Infasecure this was the reply

Me: Thanks, can you clear something up on the convertible booster is the change to booster just a guide or does it mean that once past the range of that mark you should definitely be changing to booster mode (irrelevant of age/weight).
2 hrs · Like

InfaSecure Hey Victoria! The marker is a guide, but we do recommend that it's followed. Our convertible booster 'change to booster' markers have gone up, recently, however, and are now at 45cm. Hope that helps!

So what does that really mean - which is safer? (I suspect their answer would be buy a new convertible booster with the 45cm marker!). Also do I need to ask all the manufacturers for each individual seat the same question. Surely it should say somewhere what the 'change to booster' really means?

It would be great if there was a site you could put your little ones age, weight and height dimensions into and be given a range of seats and including how long you could use each. They say weight is not important now, but still many of the seats are only tested within certain weight ranges so surely can not be entirely discounted?

**black_rose** · May 6th, 2014, 01:05 PM

Feeling the same! I am trying to find info on the 5 point harness for our seat which is the safety 1st custodian as ds is 18.5kg. His shoulders aren't at the marker for the seat belt but he could be at the weight limit.

**OceanPrincess** · May 6th, 2014, 02:02 PM

The protecta harness is what we have Vic. I bought the Boston Hipod, which I thought was a great bargain at only $129 or something and has the highest safety rating on the good old CREP website. And it says, in all their books and stuff, that you must use an additional harness. So I bought the protecta as well - and it's like $90. Not cheap. And now I find it's unsafe. Grr!

I need to look at the manual and see again what it says about the harness...

**wysiwyg** · May 6th, 2014, 02:24 PM

The protecta harness is what we have Vic. I bought the Boston Hipod, which I thought was a great bargain at only $129 or something and has the highest safety rating on the good old CREP website. And it says, in all their books and stuff, that you must use an additional harness. So I bought the protecta as well - and it's like $90. Not cheap. And now I find it's unsafe. Grr!

I need to look at the manual and see again what it says about the harness...

It is only actually unsafe if used incorrectly (but the chance of using it incorrectly would be pretty high for me)

This is the response I got from Britax

"Hi Victoria, our research shows when the harness is used in conjunction with the lap sash belt it maximises the upper torso support as long as this is fitted each time using the manufacturers instructions. It can also prevent a child from falling out of the sash belt whilst they are sleeping, slumping or wriggling. Without torso support your child is at risk of being flung forward in a crash which can cause serious head, abdominal and spinal injuries"

The bit in bold being key, I personally would rather after seeing the other evidence go with just the lap/sash belt on a booster because I would not be confident with fitting each time using manufacturers instructions. The above also puts me off Britax a little because they have not referred to the other evidence at all. I prefer the Infa approach of not recommending the harnesses unless have only lap belt.

**~ Zarava Flutterby ~** · May 6th, 2014, 02:37 PM

Britax have replied to me also and stated that the model I have (no height based) is rated to 18kg for 5 point harness and 26kgs for booster.
So I really need to take the straps out and start using the seat belt for the girls, they are under the booster seat limit but at a guess DD1 will only get another 1 and a bit years out of the seat and DD2 is right behind her in weight so we may be looking at other options.

**OceanPrincess** · May 6th, 2014, 03:17 PM

Yes I'm not confident fitting it myself let alone when others (ILs for example) do it. Might be time to remove it.

**Ginger** · May 6th, 2014, 06:39 PM

There is a definite gap in the market in Australia for a seat that has a 5 point harness with a weight limit over 18 kgs. There are options available overseas, but not here for some reason.