Can't deal with my 4yo anymore

[Lulu]

O gots me one a dem!

The tanties are hard to deal with - especially when its about anything and everything

I made a pact with dp that we had to jump on each and every tanty or screaming demand (a 'shock and awe' campaign if you will). When he starts up - off to his room. Each and every time - no 2nd chances. Because he knows that not the way to do things.
It was/is very tiring but it gets the point across and he will pull himself in.
He has sensory issues so I can see a meltdown on the way and deal with that in a different way, but the fact remains he must still learn to be a member of the family and society in general...

You know how we were talking about fighting with our brains to stay where we shouldn't be? I think DD does the same (I know ds did), because it's sort of her 'natural' state and even though she doesn't get what she wants or seem happier when she does, she feels more comfortable in that state.
I will send you something to remedy that - it worked for ds, broke the cycle. I nearly cried one day when he skipped past and said "hey mummy - I'm happy!"

I really really like Lara's idea of the timer. You might even do some sort of chart with the routine on it and maybe hands of the clock pointing the time out of when the activity etc starts.

Something else that is working around here recently is asking ds to be a good example, cos he is a BIG boy now, and dd is LITTLE. Lately both kids have been taking pleasure in singing "poos, wees, gina and doodles" or inserting any of those words into normal conversation. Now I just ignore it but it drives dp nuts and he made a big issue of it, therefore cementing the action .
I took ds aside and said I hope he would be a gentleman and ignore it when dd started, to show her how to be grown up like he is. It's working! It also give me a chance to praise him each time he does it.

will get some remedy in the mail to you soon xoxoxo

[Astrid]

Ok, time to update.

Have not had much of a chance to implement much due to illness. DD1 was ill, bubs has been ill, now I am ill. The weekend after I posted, we took her to the shop with her coins and she got to buy what she wanted. So she finally got to see the reward of all her good behaviour. Also started with telling her a lot more about what was going to be happening over the following days, thankfully it was a busy time, it seemed to help her, but was offset by constant questions about the things were were doing. There is only so many times you can be asked the same question about a party before you crack it and tell her to be quiet. So now I remember why we stopped telling her about things, even the constants in life like playgroup and childcare require 20 questions in the days leading up to them. Really need to find coping strategies with all the questions or a way to get through to her that so many questions is not needed.

From a life coping point of view I just cannot have the days or the weeks too planned out. This is for many reasons. Main one is that the universe has a way of biting me in the arse when I try to be more organised, guaranteed some disaster big or small will thrown in the way (this really needs its own thread). It just creates more stress for me, which gets me cranky and less able to deal with the demands of DD1. DD2 has her needs, she cannot deal with a full on organised day. Basically we can do one major thing a day, so whether that is playgroup, supermarket shopping, visiting etc, that is it. The rest of the day needs to be spent at home. To much in one day = pure hell.

So I can be organised as such to have one thing a day, then minor things for the rest of the day, but no guarantee they will be done. EG playgroup in morning, then baking in arvo followed by cooking dinner. If I try to throw in some cleaning or gardening, then it will just crash and burn.

Now the food stuff. Just a bit of background. I do basically believe in feeding a child when they are hungry, but the reality of it, especially with DD1, makes if difficult. I used to feed DD1 when she asked and often what she was asking for. I found myself constantly in the kitchen, the food was barely being touched, there was so much wastage and the rest of the house was a disaster along with the kitchen as I had little time for anything else. Also the more I gave her what she wanted the more unhappy she became. So that is why I have become stricter about what she can eat and when. I am not an ala carte restaurant, nor do I have the unlimited budget in order to feed her what ever her heart desires, also I doubt the planet could continue to cope with the amount of waste generated. Currently she does get a certain amount of choice with her food, she can choose her breakfast, often does have a choice of snacks. The rule of fruit generally kicks in when she has had 3 or 4 snacks already, after barely touching her breakfast of choice. I am not ignoring her needs, it is just that I don't believe anymore that she really is that hungry, I think there is something else going on that is causing this. Part of it could be thirst, I often have to remind her to drink. I am an emotional snacker, so I suspect she is too. I have done the whole fruit stick/faces thing, really is just a bandaid, works one or twice, but does not help with the overall issue.

DD1 copes fine at childcare with their structured eating times and limited choices, so I am thinking that I may need to be more organised with food, rather than just thinking up of what to have for lunch on the spot.

Thankfully this month there is an extra playgroup session which is a drop off one, so that will give her more activites to do and fills in a blank in that day.

Oh, I have tried stickers in the past. She just wants them all to stick around the house or on herself, so they just create another tantrum in themselves. It is her usual thing, she gets one, so she wants another. What she gets it is never enough.

So I have a delicate balancing act to work out. It may just be a matter of surviving till next year when kinder starts, as that will mean 3 half days will be filled for her

[widdly]

When DS starts behaving like your DD is atm, I revert straight back to toddler parenting. I give him simple choices between 2 things, if he cracks it he goes straight to his room til he is ready to be nice. When he is being nice again he gets to choose between the 2 things.

Breakfast is always a bowl of whichever cereal is open at the time, no choice, its that or nothing. If he eats it all and is still hungry he gets a piece of fruit, if he eats that and is still hungry he gets a glass of milk. If he is still hungry after all that, I tell him he is not having food til later and I try and divert his attention.

Any tanties are dealt with promptly. DS is told it is his choice, either he does it my way or he goes to his bedroom. If he chooses to tanty still he goes to his bedroom and is not allowed out til he is ready to be nice. He goes through stages where he just feels plain angry. We deal with this by telling him to go to his room and punch his pillows and his bed, when he has finished feeling angry he is welcome to join us again. We have had days when he spends most of his day in his bedroom cracking it, that is his choice, I dont have guilt about it. He is at the point now where if he knows he is gonna crack it, he will just disappear to his from for a few minutes (sometimes we hear him swear quietly to himself, or tell himself its not fair, mum is horrible)but when he comes back out again he is happy, so he is learning what behaviour is acceptable.

Basically any time he is being difficult and starts going into a tanty he goes in his room and we ignore him til he comes out happy again. We have had to be VERY consistent. If he plays up when we are out somewhere, we take him straight home no matter what.

It is easy for me to say all this, but I dont have a baby to deal with as well, so our situations are very different.

Hope you find a way to work things out for your household x

[Astrid]

Ok, I officially give up. If not for DD2 I would just put her in fulltime childcare and go back to work.

This afternoon was the final straw. Made her lunch, egg sandwiches, something she is happy to eat. She even helped to make them. Well she got through 2/3's, which was pretty good, said she did not want any more. Fine, so I got her to put the plate in the kitchen, as she walked back in the lounge room she said "I'm hungry, I want something else to eat". I could have throttled her right then. I promptly told her that is she is still hungry to have more of the sandwich. She said no, she wants chocolate or an icy pole. I told her no, it is either her sandwich or an apple. Her response was "no, an apple is too cold" WTF??? An apple is too cold, but an icy pole is not? She just wants her own way, either that or she is having genuine trouble working out full and hungry feelings (mine are pretty skewed). She already had an icy pole earlier and I said she may have one later, so of course she is wanting another now. After a heap of drama, she finally blames it on missing our dog, so I explain to her that we all miss him, but it is not an excuse to be hungry all the time.

[~clover~]

Oh she sounds like fun.
My DD2 is exactly the same. 'But I'm not hungry for that. I'm hungry for this'. I rarely have any unhealthy food in the house because of this & when I do its up where they can't see it.
Almost every night mine won't eat their dinner & will be hungry just on bed time. Almost every night i fight about how they should've eaten their dinner, but I almost always give in & let them a sandwich, or apple so they'll go to bed
We have rules. If i have icy poles or something here, its one a day. Thats it.

Mine have been annoyingly hungry all the time lately too. Its finally settling down the last few days!

[widdly]

Sounds like you and her are just not getting along atm. Is there any way you can have a bit of a break from each other? Like, can DH take her away for the weekend, or you and bub go away for the weekend and leave DD1 and DH at home? Maybe DH could take her to stay over at his parents or something?? Maybe just some time away from her for 24 hours or so will help you cool down and take a step back from the situation and when she comes home you will be feeling a bit refreshed from her and you can feel stronger and try a new approach with her?

[squidipa]

Ds here is a eataholic so we never have issues with trying to get him to eat. Thatmust eb so hard. you did the right thing leaving here and wlaking out

I would love to surprise her, or just reward her for not demanding, but never get that chance. I have days where I have planned to take her somewhere, but she has ruined it by demanding it.

ds is the same asking for FOOD FOOD FOOD but we just say no and stick to it, its a shame when they rutine a great planned day been there many times, whats frustrating is in our case either everyone misses out or he gets to come anyhow.. i think it must be an age thing. We have had to do a NO TREAT ban in the house so all bland food till he sorted hims elf out a bit it worked.

She has gotten so bad with her defiance, that even when we do say yes, she does not hear it and goes straight into screaming.

Ds is 4 and does the same thing or if ya send him to his room he will scream and scream if we say you can come out now he keeps screaming let me out.. just doesn't hear anything so i can sympathies on this note.

She was terrible at the shops, always wanting toys, so we implemented a coin system. At the end of the day DH will talk to her about all the good and bad things she has done and give her a few coins accordingly. She is saving up for a toy that she really wants. We have found that this helps with the demands at the shops and she looks forward to her coints at night. The downside is if there a no coins (like yesterday), it results in a mega tantrum.

im wondering if your me and writing my story sounds so alike.... we have started the same thing we are saving for a football.. Our bribes are for not hurting his little brother by ristricting his movement and NOT helping himself to food or eating from bins or out of handbags (i keep shop treats) or eating of floor or licking flyscreans or anything else all before we wake up in morning.

It is now like the boy who cried wolf around here. Her screaming and carrying on about the slightest thing, now has us ignoring them. So if she does actually hurt herself, we can't tell and often work it out later. I had one day where she was in her room, so I changed the tv channel, I heard this almighty holler from her room, I rushed in as I really thought she was badly hurt, but not it was just due to me changing the channel on a tv that she was not even watching.

Any advice? I can't do this anymore

When ds does the whole screaming thing we put him on the back porch and let him scream till his hearts content and i continue on with my day or so he thinks really i am spying from the kitchen window.. actually the lady next door does the same thing with her little girl till she calms down. When he has calmed down he can come in and talk about whats happened.

I do trully sympathize with you as we to are going through the same thing and support wishes sending your way happy to talk more if you want

[Inertia]

Mr H is the same in some ways. He won't eat dinner. Point blank refuses to eat the food in his bowl or on his plate - but god forbid I don't actually serve any for him. Hell fire and brimstone kind of reaction to not serving him the dinner he wont eat! I serve it because one day he will. But I don't give options. I am not a restaurant, a cafe or a bistro. However, she actually sounds like one child treating you to what I go through every day with 5 kids.

I don't make different food for all of them, if they cant agree on a tv channel then I choose it and they were stuck with lifestyle. She is arguing with herself! I don't think that info is going to help a great deal really but it just sounds so familiar. Don't give an inch. Treat it like you do have 5 kids arguing. You can't give into any one demand because thats unfair on the other four, so take the choice away and make the decision. Definitely do not give into the tantrum of one because you know that if you do she'll change the goal posts on you. She does this because you have already given ground on the first demand so she can make the next bigger one until she reaches her ultimate goal. Its wearing you down so by the time she gets to what she really wants, you are likely to give in just to shut her up. Been there, done that.

Always poke your head in when she is howling and ask whats wrong. If its something silly like you changed the channel, just say - is that all, I thought you hurt yourself - and walk away. Make sure she hasn't hurt herself, and it will let her know that you are only going really respond to crying when it is for a reason.

Stop playing the game, stop letting it get to you, and definitely don't let her see it get to you. Even at the shops. When Haz is on the deck chucking a tanty I just say "I'm going now, see ya". He gets up and runs after me. Sometimes still crying but it makes shopping more bearable when I control my response to him rather than worrying about his response to my no and every nosy biddy bodies response to his tantrum. It eventually starts lessening off and now we are at the point where I can give Harry a $2 coin before we go shopping for him to put in his pocket and he loves buying his own thing coz he knows he is only getting one thing and only on shopping day.