Is this child abuse?

[Lana]

Hard situation, kids are so darn persistent at doing things they know they shouldn't. You almost needed to have the fence built the other way around so that the cross bars are on the outside and all you can see is the up and down of the pailings so he has nothing to climb. Would putting something like a tarp over the fence so he can't get a hand/foot hold work? Remove the bottom rail - don't know if a fence can be structurally sound with out it but you did say you were desperate!

[Indadhanu]

My parents did it. We had livestock, but the fence was as much for them as for us. My sister and I. We lived on a large dairy farm, different to a station but still dangerous. We had a river 100m from the house and dams dotted all over the preoprty. My parents fenced and electric fenced the house block, so that we couldn't get to the dam or river. We learnt how to get around it, but if you string it right it goves you a time buffer of him actually having to get around the fence before he is outside of the house block at least. If you feel his life could end within minutes of getting outside the fence, I for one wouldn't judge you for taking drastic action like an electric fence.

Another option could be a sensor alarm? Either rigging an alarm to detect motion in a ceratin area, so you know if he is getting out, or is out. Or a sensor thing on a necklace, anklet or wristband which will tell you if he goes near or outside of a certain area.

[krystals]

*hugs* I can totally see that you're at the end of your tether...

There are a lot of suggestions here, one I haven't seen, and I don't know if it's possible, but have you seen the kangaroo farm fencing? It's kind of on an angle so they can't get out. I'm obviously not comparing your DS to a kangaroo! But perhaps an angled fence is an option? I have no idea how expensive they are.

The main point of my contribution was the hugs

[kitten2b]

I was thinking the alarms as well, mum says they use the in the nursing homes to tell when people have escaped their beds at night etc, might be useful for your doors, ie put it inside before the outside door so that you have some warning before his escape.

[Cranky Kitten]

Deadbolt chain at the top of the doors maybe - one of the metal ones?

For the windows maybe spend the cash you would've spent on the fence on secure mesh covers in place of the normal flywire. That way you can still open the windows for air but the little beggar can't climb through them.

I'm not sure about the yard fencing, but I don't think the electric fence is the right answer. Not just because of the less than pleasant connotations but also because longterm it's not going to solve the problem. Teaching your son to stay where it's safe and not go off exploring the yards without company is going to ultimately serve to ease the need to turn your house into an escapeproof bunker.

All the best hun and hope you get a break soon

[beckoes]

its a hard situation for you to be in. I personally would shudder at the thought of containing my child with elictrical fence, so i can see why you have had some negative comments, but i dont live where you live and have the dangers around me that you do. its a whole different set of challenges and basically, a shocked child is better than a dead one. i think if the fence is the only way to stop him running off then thats your option. id try adding some new locks on the doors and maybe getting that crimsafe fly wire stuff! the stuff made of metal that you cant kick in! so he cant do a runner at night! hopefully he will start to understand WHY he shouldnt run off. i hope you work it out soon!!

ETA: i was just chatting with my DH about your situation. interesting to get a different point of view. He recons he sounds like a really smart little man who just wants to be out doing what the other men are doing. DH was a pretty naughty kid and he says the only thing that stopped him doing ridiculous stuff was basically being out smarted by his parents. DH had his own tool bench, cubby house. bike track with jumps.
we have lived out in the country for about 6 months (nothing like you) and i find it hard to entertain DD at times, is he bored?

[sconeonamission]

I personally wouldn't use the electric fence idea, although I can see how stressed you are.

What about those latch thingies, that have a D-shaped thing you put the flappy thing over and put a padlock through the D-shape thing right at the top of the doors? (or similiar if the door wont take one? Keep the key in it, but have it right at the top of the door? And move all climbing implements?

dowl in the window groove? It stops the window from opening, maybe it'll trick him for a little while?

Someone suggested a sensor (like the sensor mats in nursing homes)... Those little old people are freaking quick! By the time you get to where the sensor is going off, they are further than you realise!

Best of luck!

[Mother Goose]

the most effective and non-invasive sensors used in nursing homes are an alarm that goes off when the barrier is breached. You can add them to windows and doors. OR you can put a little bracelet on DS and when he gets too close to the sensor, it alarms. It's a horrid sound. Loud and shrill! It also requires you to press a button to abort the sound.

If you feel that the electric fence is your final option, then what choice do you have? But there are some good suggestions here. I'd be disinclined to use the electric fence for personal reasons. And I would be concerned that the current may be enough to send his heart into an altered rhythm (but don't know enough about the electrical currents in the fences such as voltage to justify that concern).

I was going to suggest training a dog to round him up when he tries to escape but I imagine he would quickly learn how to circumvent that too!

[AnyDream]

OW, I understand what a serious issue this is, especially given the dangers of living on a station.

But personally I feel deeply uncomfortable about resorting to the use of an electric fence, it just doesn't sit right with me.

HOWEVER I think you could do more about your locks etc. My DH is by no means a handy man and he has fitted key-locks to every window, it only takes drilling and screwing. You can add additional holes so the windows can be locked in a partially open position too, in case you need it for ventilation etc. It cost us no more than $100 or so dollars to do every window in the house. If you choose the locks with the same number it means they will all open with the same key, and you can concentrate on keeping that key in a secure place.

Also, you might have to compromise regarding the dead locks, maybe you could put a hook up above the door (ie out of reach even if he stands on a chair) and keep a key up there permanently against the fire risk, or think about putting a sliding bolt up at the top of the door(s).

Also - if the issue is about him wandering around out of bed, perhaps think about putting a privacy lock on his bedroom door with the latch facing outwards, and fitting a good lock onto his bedroom window. If you check on him often, and can hear into his room (use a monitor for peace of mind) and his room is properly child-proofed (ie no uncovered electricity sockets, shelves & drawers bracketed to the walls so they can't tip if he climbs, no small toys or bits he could choke on) then you could lock the door while he (and you) are sleeping.

The other tack is to think about why it is that he's so keen to escape. Is he bored? Is he looking for something or someone? I don't think this level of escapism is entirely normal so it might be worth checking out the behavioural side of things in case there are some strategies you could be using there.

HTH

[nothing2lose]

It is definitely wrong to use an electric fence to contain your child. No matter what your motives, Child Protection would have massive problems with it. It would be tantamount to tying a child down in a suburban house to make sure they dont touch the fireplace or stick forks into a power point. I am going to be blunt here, and probably upset some people (unintentionally) but at that age your child should be constantly supervised (this is what child protection guidelines in each State will tell you and that's the standard any investigation they make will be measured against). That means you (or your DH or another adult over 18) needs to watch him at all times. I dont mean to sound harsh, and I know that it's hard to do this but, parenting is hard, and, as you point out, it's better than your little boy being hit by a truck or bitten by a snake, etc.

I hope you solve the problem and your little boy remains safe and well.

take care

n2l

[fionas]

I just want to give you my sympathies. We recently moved from the city to a bigger block. It's less than an acre but I constantly worry about DD getting out so I know that feeling where you just can't relax.

I really don't think it's child abuse - you are doing it to keep your child safe and anyone who makes you feel bad about that is being very simplistic. Yep, look into other options but if an electric fence is what it takes, so be it.

[AndiE]

I DON'T want to wake up one morning and find William floating in the nearest well..
I DON'T want him to be bitten by a snake in an area I CANNOT control, or CANNOT see, so he can be given antivenom.
I DON'T want a DEAD KID!

Exactly, so while I'm not in love with the idea of an electric fence (and I'm sure you don't like it much either) ... and it's the ONLY option available to you - then it's a better alternative to what you've written above. Just please investigate it thoroughly before you do anything as the first thing he'd do would be to close a fist around a wire as he went to climb it. You want to keep him safe, not zap him till he cooks!

Sheesh, when I read that you have trucks and a gyrocopter outside the house fence I thought "OMG - a child loose in that environment could be a catastrophe".

I grew up in a farming area - electric fences everywhere, kids everywhere. I suspect many properties would have had electric fences around the houses for the practicality of it, though I can't be certain. We had barb wire fences around some of our house ....

I also agree that a child of your DS's age should be watched ... however with an active son the same age as yours, I know that just isn't possible ALL the time. Particularly once a new baby arrives! And personally, I don't see a correlation between having a low-voltage electric fence around your house to stop your son walking in front of a truck and "tying a child down". Sorry - don't get that at all. My opinion only, please understand.

Good luck - at this age they really do test their boundaries (literally) so you've got a tough issue to deal with.

[OutbackWoman]

Wow, so many great suggestions Thanks!

I don't think DS is bored, he has plenty to play with inside and outside including his own quad bike and mini tractor (push pedal thing) A water maze activity set and the list goes on... He escapes because he likes to feed the working dogs... once he lets the working dogs out he then takes them for a walk...
The other reason he escapes is because he can see things going on over at the work shed and wants to 'help' He has gotten as far once almost starting a tractor ( a real one!)
He's just an outdoor boy,
He went out with DP one day on a water run (where you check all the stock water and troughs etc) and DP was trying to put a fan belt on a lister motor, he had his eyes off him for about 20 seconds, turned around and saw William sitting on TOP of a tank playing in the water!

Without tooting my own horn, DS is a very intelligent child who is very advanced both intellectually and physically... unfortunately his perception of danger is not so advanced...

I honestly think what I am trying to do it a little bit different to tying a child down to stop him touching something dangerous! I am trying to protect him from the dangers of what is outside the fence, not physically restraining him to the chair...

The electric fences I have looked at come in several different voltages, the one I am looking at says on the box that it is SAFE for children and pets, The voltage of such fences is similiar to a medium setting on a TENS machine.. so there you have it, it's not going to hurt him, but it might be uncomfortable whilst he is trying to move it to get over the fence...

In saying that though, I caught DS one day with the working dog training collar once, holding it against his tummy and pressing the button on the remote! He thought it was hilarious!

Addition: We do have some more child safety locks coming, slide bolts and what not, so that should keep him inside... so hopefully that is going to help a bit!

[christy]

Um... okay. Firstly I have to say for those who have not been through this themselves, this is not about a neglegant parent. This isn't about a parent who wants to spend time NOT looking after her child, this is about being able to do basic functions like urinate.

I had an 18 month old that would scale fences as well. Somedays I would have to hold my bladder for 10 hours to wait for my husband to come home in order to urinate. I understand your predicament because I have been through it, only in the suburbs. When I was 8 months pregnant, I decided that my daughter would be able to handle it if I had a shower, I locked her in my bedroom and hung the key on the hook above the door (we had locks on everything and the keys hung on hooks above the door). I kept the door open to the ensuite so I could be there for her, gave her snacks and drinks and toys and jumped in the shower. We had two locks on every window that had to be opened together, so I thought we'd be okay. I jumped in (she had vomitted all over me an hour previously.... I stunk). I quickly washed off, and jumped out, maybe 2 minutes tops? She was gone. She moved a chair up to the door, unlocked the door, ran down the hallway, used another chair to unlock our back door, climbed the verandah fence (there was a padlock on the verandah fence gate) and climbed our 6 foot fence. She was 2 years, 3 months. I ran down the street covered by a towel (remember the 8 months pregnant bit??) and found her at the house behind us with the builders who were building a new house... I had to drag her kicking and screaming home showing the world most of my pregnant body on a busy road.... oh yeah the joys of showering?

I used to have to put a monkey harness on her to go to the toilet because by the time she was 2 years 8 months she figured out how to jump out the windows by unlocking the windows with a pen on the top lock and holding the bottom lock open with her foot while leaning on the window to open it.

When she was 11 months, she pushed a chair to the back door of a friends house and climbed up trying to open the door.

She ran out of shops and onto roads after getting out of a 5 point harness in the pram, she took herself to the train station in Brisbane's south bank because she didn't like that we didn't take the train in.... she was gone for 15 minutes before a stranger found her. I was with police and hysterical.

Matilda was diagnosed with Autism when she was 5 and at that time I was told it was a common thing for these kids and that there are special things that Child Protective services could help us with like extra locks etc....

I suggest that you call them yourself and ask to speak with someone about the safety of your child who is an escape artist. It is serious and this is how kids wind up in horrible situations. Its not BAD parenting and I dare ANYONE to say that to my face after what I have been through.

[AndiE]

In saying that though, I caught DS one day with the working dog training collar once, holding it against his tummy and pressing the button on the remote! He thought it was hilarious!

First I laughed when I read this, and then I've started to wonder if your fence WILL work like you hope it will. Sorry, don't mean to be negative ... but if he's the sort of kid who shrugs off injury/pain (my DS1 is tonka tough like that - nothing much seems to hurt him physically!) then a low volt shock may not be much of a concern to him. As I said in my previous post - good luck, this is a tough one!

ETA - should have added that it sounds to me like you've done your research well! Good for you : )

[~Stoked~]

The electric fences I have looked at come in several different voltages, the one I am looking at says on the box that it is SAFE for children and pets, The voltage of such fences is similiar to a medium setting on a TENS machine.. so there you have it, it's not going to hurt him, but it might be uncomfortable whilst he is trying to move it to get over the fence...

In saying that though, I caught DS one day with the working dog training collar once, holding it against his tummy and pressing the button on the remote! He thought it was hilarious!

I was going to say before that I think people must not be very familiar with electric fences to think that it would be child abuse, or comparing him to a cow, or comparing it to tying your child up. A low voltage electric fence feels like a little tingle, more of a fright than a pain or real 'shock'.. It's more of an unpleasant sensation.
Which is why I see no problems with it at all!

[LimeSlice]

Christy.

[Kazbah]

Oh hun, I hope you find a solution, DS1 escaped our house once and fell down a set of concrete stairs, and we spent the night in casualty.