To smack or not to smack

[Inertia]

Smacking a crying child doesn't make them stop crying...

On another note. Why does everyone always assume people smack their children because they are angry/frustrated/upset/'out of control'? Always been the most curious thing to me.

My response to

is, no you're not OK 'cause you think its alright to hit a child.
Having said that I'm not OK as I have hit DS1 when I was angry and then spent the rest of the day appologising to him as to me its not right to hit anyone and I don't want him thinking it is.


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Always wondered where this left the "I was smacked as a child and so I don't smack" people. because they are ok... right?
Can we really have it both ways?

[Arcadia]

On another note. Why does everyone always assume people smack their children because they are angry/frustrated/upset/'out of control'? Always been the most curious thing

I suppose because my rational mind says physically hurting another person deliberately is unacceptable behavior, so I find it hard to sanction that anyone would smack as a deliberate mode of discipline.

I think I just accept we all have the potential to smack, because it is easy to do when pushed to the limit, but it takes great self control not to smack (thus the out of control argument)

Fwiw...I have never seen anyone smack when they are not angry. If there is not the force of anger behind it, what's the point? It's even less likely to get a reaction you want....isn't it?

[Beach Mama]

Neither DH nor I believe in smacking as discipline but having said that we have used it as a threat and have smacked out kids, feeling horrible afterwards and apologised to them for it as well. It is really really tough and yep we both know it's not the way we want to parent but last straw etc. I tend to blow up, I can feel my blood pressure rising and then yell and it is an adult tantrum for sure, today I was borderline with DD - after an hour of mucking around did NOT want to go to sleep - problem is I know if she skips her nap when already tired, all hell will break loose at around 5pm. Anyway I took a deep breath, gave her the biggest hug and whispered - hard to yell when you whisper and she relaxed, i told her I would like her to hold my hand while we slept and less than 10 minutes later she was out for 2 hours. Taught me a HUGE lesson and I really hope I keep remembering that sometimes I can get further with them with a calm cool head than a fiery temper and a smack.

I absolutely know that it isn't effective, that it shows more about me as a parent etc. but would never, ever judge someone because I have been there, have been in that space where I feel like I have no other option and am willing to try anything to try and get them to cooperate.

[delphmoon]

I agree with everyone- sure makes me wonder where the smackers are though as I have seen plenty of parent smacking their children at the shops.

I think by smacking your teaching your children bad habits when it comes to dealing with things. They learn that when they get mad to go smack someone like mum or dad did.

I also think alot of the older generations would describe smacking as 'discipline' rather than violence. In fact, in my discussions with older generations (70+) commonly, they blame lack of smacking (discipline) in todays society for the large amount of teenage social problems these days.

I am not in any way for smacking- just interesting to hear the different viewpots from different generations.

[Beach Mama]

I agree with everyone- sure makes me wonder where the smackers are though as I have seen plenty of parent smacking their children at the shops.

Probably here but too shy and wary of the judgment and outcry if they choose it as a way of discipline I would say.

I see a difference in smacking/violence/hitting, yes a smack is hitting, but for us it's controlled, on the bum/thigh, flat hand etc. Yes I realise many people wouldn't and don't distinguish the difference and say violence is violence, but to those who do and have smacked, I'm sure would see it differently. Have I felt bad and realised it made no difference to my kids afterwards?? You bet. Did I regret it and apologise to make my children realise that I am human and am HUGELY sorry once I have smacked them? You bet and I know I am far from perfect and luckily it doesn't happen all that often.

FWIW I know people/friends who say the most horrible things to their kids at times, in front of others, damaging horrible stuff I would NEVER say to or about my kids, and personally feel it is more damaging than a tap on the bum that is then apologised for. I would never judge them though, never say anything about their parenting and feel that we are all dealing with our kids in the best way we see fit. Again I know some see little difference between smacking and abuse - I for one disagree and know others will disagree with me, lucky it's a free country

[delphmoon]

Well put


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[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I didn't have a problem with a smack pre-DS. After all, do I want my child to learn running into the road hurts for the first time when a car hits him? I'd rather sort him out with a smack earlier.

Then I had my DS. A boy who LOVES having his bottom smacked - so much so it's a game in this house. I started doing it when he was just a few months old, a lovely old lady mentioned that she used to do it to soothe babies. I gave it a go, needed to use enough force for DS to feel it through a cloth nappy, and he settled and loved it straight away. Not to hurt, but then the aim of a smack is a shock rather than to bruise/cause severe pain, right? He usually gets a "smack" when he is running around naked, refusing to get dressed. I chase him to his room trying to get his bottom - him in laughter, but it works, and no harm to the relationship or the child. (And I have no illusions that he's going to grow up OK, don't worry. A parent's job is to screw up their child though.)

However, my son also responds best to words and real demonstrations. So he knows about the oven being hot because I've opened the oven when it is on and he has stood in front of it, he knows it is too hot to touch. With a car, we talk about how much it hurts to run into a wall - it is more painful if the wall was running too (walking slowly into a wall doesn't hurt much, after all) so cars REALLY hurt. May not work for all, but he didn't (and doesn't) run across roads without looking for cars after that chat.

What will I do with another child? Well, I hope to not use smacking, or have it as a game. I suppose having such a good relationship with my son means I would not want a relationship based on fear with another child. But you can achieve fear without smacking - DH's overuse of the time-out means DS is less keen on Daddy time these days. And I don't remember being scared of a smack from my mother - just her opening her mouth would do it (a copped quite a bit of verbal abuse over the years).

[Fleur]

We smacked DD1 - DH mostly and we had some doozy arguments about it. (So in answer to the question 'what do you do when you don't agree' in our case back then the answer was, we argued, big time).

DS1 was smacked much less and DS2 hardly ever.

DD2 has never been smacked and I do not think ever will be. (although DH has threatened to. Which I also don't agree with, because I think if you're going to threaten something you should be prepared to follow through - and I don't think he is these days, nor do I want him to).

What other people do is up to them. I'm not of the opinion that smacking is tantamount to child abuse (that is, just a basic smack). I do think it's hypocritical of me to teach my child that it's not nice to hit and yet I do it to them? I want to teach her that it's not okay for anyone to hurt her, ever.

I also, as I've gotten older & further along in life, in my parenting, have recognised that smacking for me (or wanting to) is a lashing out when I don't know what else to do. It's a fall-back method of discipline. I'm not saying that is the case for everyone but it is true for me.

FWIW I know people/friends who say the most horrible things to their kids at times, in front of others, damaging horrible stuff I would NEVER say to or about my kids, and personally feel it is more damaging than a tap on the bum that is then apologised for. I would never judge them though, never say anything about their parenting and feel that we are all dealing with our kids in the best way we see fit. Again I know some see little difference between smacking and abuse - I for one disagree and know others will disagree with me, lucky it's a free country

I agree with this also. I was smacked as a child and while I wouldn't say 'I'm fine' lol, I do think I have been affected more by what was said to me, and the way people in my life behaved in general. So I try to be equally mindful about the words I say to my children.

[onthefly]

Tanstar you're right. And I would say neither of those things is ok.
If we want to teach our children to be considerate and respectful of others, then i think we have to be considerate and respectful of them.

[Rouge]

I have never smacked, nor have I ever belittled my children with threats or language. I have lost my temper and yelled but I am always accountable for my actions. My kids are pretty normal kids, they have they moments sure but they respect us as parents and their boundaries, as do we them and theirs.

I have no judgement to those that smack, I have my own baggage sure. And like others have said screaming and belittling is just as damaging IMO.

I think if you don't want to smack you can do it. Just as I think you can parent respectfully without yelling and still have children that aren't bouncing off the walls. There are lots of threads around about coping techniques and boundaries. There isn't a quick fix, to me it's part of a whole parenting system. I know that sounds bizarre. And with every stage that system changes, as well as when my life changes. The more stressful my life is the harder it is to be a parent and sometimes bad days for me coincide with difficult stages, which is when it's easy to then question your own parenting styles.

As hard as it is and I will say it is a lot more time consuming to not smack, the keys are patience, taking the time to connect and follow through with consequences. Sometimes certain lifestyles don't allow for this. I was lucky because for both children I was able to stay home till school age. But I know now that I've been working almost full time for the past month it has been REALLY hard. I'm not saying it's not doable, it is but I just need to change tactics iykwim?

I'm rambling, but I'm trying to think of all the things that have impacted on our parenting journey.

ETA: And please let me clarify, I'm not saying that working parents can't parent effectively. I was using that as an example for myself, in that it raised my stress levels which decreased my patience. PLEASE don't think I'm saying the latter, because that's not true at all. And the lifestyles I mean, are the stressful ones vs. the less stressful ones. And for the majority my life when my kids were smaller was pretty stress free.

[Beach Mama]

The more stressful my life is the harder it is to be a parent and sometimes bad days for me coincide with difficult stages, which is when it's easy to then question your own parenting styles.

So so so true.

The more I take time out for me, do yoga, go running, find a place where my anxiety issues are under control etc. the more capable I am of having the patience I need to parent in the way I want and to be a more "present" parent rather than being reactive.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Sorry, Rouge, but I'm going to have to disagree.

Sometimes certain lifestyles don't allow for this.

I've worked full-time and my lifestyle DOES allow for not smacking, not name-calling, not belittling. Yes, it's hard - but since when was parenting supposed to be all sunshine and lollipops? (Lollipops without sunshine generally lead to hyper children trashing the house anyway.) I find it easier to have fun with DS after a day away from him anyway, going to work improved my parenting as I get hot coffee at work. I've also stayed away from my home, stayed with my mother for up to a month at a time, and still managed to treat my son with respect and love, despite what my mother was doing behind my back. (Usually infantalising him: before you say it isn't a problem with a pre-schooler, I know she still tries to do it to me, so it is a problem.)

Can you EVER think of a time when it's OK to say "my lifestyle meant I had to abuse my child"? (And no, smacking isn't abuse, I'm just taking Rouge's suggestion to extremes as this is the internet so that's what we do here.)

[Rouge]

Just added this post to my previous one, so not to upset anyone else. Sorry Ryn I worded it badly. I'm a dufus. xx

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

S'OK lovely, I know you're not having a go. But I do think "my lifestyle means I'm a crap parent" just isn't an excuse. It's one my own mother has tried to use to garner sympathy. I have very little for her - she made her lifestyle stressful, she took on too much, she chose to take it out on me. I have chosen a job that can be stressful - but that's not an excuse to be a bad parent to my son, who didn't choose for me to be in a bad mood.

[Rouge]

Yes but you do things to fix that. I think sometimes you can get wrapped up in your own life to notice it's having an effect on other relationships including that which you have with your children. I'm not saying it's an excuse I'm saying that sometimes it's a cause and people don't realise. Doesn't mean you can remove the stress, but when you are aware of it you are more likely to monitor your own reactions in life. KWIM?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I see what you're saying - but I still can't comprehend how you can get soooo wrapped up in your own life you'll be cruel to your child, then crueller still when you see you have upset them with your words and actions. Maybe I'm just too wonderful and perfect in my parenting (LOL).

[onthefly]

I think that makes sense. It's all about the personal resources that we have - we're all different and need different things to help and support us.

[Rouge]

Hahahahahaha!

Sometimes it can happen.

For example. You have a 4 year old that is quite repetitive in story telling to the point of annoying. And they often wait till a moment it's not appropriate, you're on the phone, you're trying to do something that requires lots of attention etc. But today they got hurt by another child at kinder and they want to tell you because this child is quite a bully and it's been effecting them a lot and they haven't had the courage to say anything. They start bugging you at a point when you can't give them your full attention, you drop something or do something because you are distracted that upsets you and then your immediate reaction because you are stressed is to lash out verbally to your child and tell them to shutup or go away or worse you swear at them. The child then runs away crying, because you're stressed instead of asking if they are ok you scream at them to stop crying like a baby. In your mind your actions are justified, you have absolutely NO IDEA your child is suffering emotionally and needs you. In doing that they start to think things are their fault. And guilt kicks in.

No it's not up there with putting out a cigarette on a child's arm, but it is detrimental.

Or better yet you are so tired you just want 5 minutes peace, you aren't as engaged as usual and the kids pick up on it and start playing up, doing things that they normally couldn't do because they have read your body language and lack of engagement as permission. You finally realise and snap and start screaming. They have no idea what they've done wrong because in their little minds they think when you didn't stop them from doing xyz when you normally would that it was going to be one of those magical days where they could do whatever they want. The reality is you were tired, and distracted and didn't notice. But they don't know that. And in your mind you see their behaviour as a personal attack, a total disregard to you. When it's not.

What I'm saying is do I think these things are abusive? No. But they do lead to a parenting relationship that is completely off the rails when instead of it being a rarity it becomes normal. And then you are left sitting back and wondering WTF happened. I'm not really talking about abuse here, I'm talking about ways to parent without smacking.