To smack or not to smack

[Smoke Jaguar]

Never ok. Here's my biggest reference for anti-punishment, anti-smacking:
Punitive Damages
I also DO care if other parents smack. Those are the kids who tend to grow up feeling entitled to disempower and manipulate people around them because of how they were taught to 'negotiate'. We've all worked with people like that - maybe not all of us, but I know for a fact that a great many of us here on BB have, from what I've read over the years of work and people experiences, let alone how our kids come home from childcare and school! I care, because it affects the world I live in and the world my kids will live in with their smacked peers. I care about other kids' welfare.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I'm not saying I don't snap - I have done. But I don't tell my son off for being upset when I've snapped. Instead I say sorry, give him a cuddle (even when I've had so much physical touch it is painful for me - lack of it is painful for DS and I can regulate better) and ask him to cry quietly while I finish what I'm doing. It works.

Even when I sit back and think "what happened" I still know that if my actions lead to my child crying I should apologise, just as I expect Liebling to apologise when I am hurt by his actions.

[Rouge]

But the fact is you have management techniques. And you can see the detriment. Some people can't. And it's not because they are bad people, or because they don't care. It's because they've never thought of it that way, and have never been shown an alternative.

That is why these discussions are SOOOOOO important. Not to point fingers, cast judgement or be condescending (and I'm not saying you are doing that, but sometimes these discussions can deteriorate in that way) but to share our own experiences and hopefully that helps someone. KWIM? Just as many times in the past I have gained SOOOOO much perspective and great coping techniques.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Bonus of being a thoughtful child to an abusive parent - I have spent lots of time thinking how my mother should do her job better, so therefore had some ideas when I became a parent - which were partly shaped by discussions here, I will not deny that. But I do agree with you - this is something that can (should) be done through chatting rather than through bad examples.

[forshelby]

I haven't read the other replies, so apologies if I repeat anything.

DS obviously isn't old enough to be disciplined at all, really. But, DP and I were both smacked as kids. My mum had a special bamboo stick with 'heat for the seat' and flames printed on it. Yes, it was designed for smacking children. DP's Dad from what I've heard was a b*stard, and would not only smack the kids, but his wife on occasion too. As a result of this I'm ok, but DP on the other hand has a whole other attitude. He thinks it's ok to smack your kids if they're misbehaving. I disagree.

IMO, smacking doesn't teach the child to respect you, it teaches them to fear your wrath. It only escalates the situation and adds violence into the mix. And, what do you do if the reason for smacking the child is because they behaved violently or hit another child? "We don't hit" *smack* (but I can hit you). What does that say to the child? It's all too confusing.

The only time I would physically discipline my child (anything more than a tap on the hand to get his attention, that is) would be if he was doing something seriously dangerous. But it'd have to be pretty shocking to make me hit him.

[Beach Mama]

Rouge and TFB - thanks for your discussion, I have seriously thought about so much about my own parenting tonight thanks to your posts. Rouge yours in particular about being present/disconnected and then wondering why the kids are feral is totally where I am at at times, nothing to do with smacking but parenting in general and my reaction to these little folk!

[Jennifer13]

Forshelby, your example of smacking for hitting a child is exactly what always comes to mind when I think of why smacking is ineffective. If i have to correct her behaviour in that instance, then logically how can i do the same thing she would be in trouble for? For me, parenting is also about setting the best possible example I can as an adult.

So that includes not yelling, swearing, hitting, insulting, manipulating, putting down, etc, etc, etc. And apologising when I make a mistake, whether that was to my child, partner, or anyone.

[Tegam]

I don't like smacking, I don't smack. I don't respect people who do it and I do judge others that do!

It's sickening, it violence, it bullying and pathetic. There is just NO excuse!

[*Danni*]

Thanks Mayaness for posting that link, it was an interesting read.

I could never ever hit my son. I personally dont believe in smacking at all. Prior to having a child, I actually thought yes that smacking was perfectly fine and thought that maybe more children should be smacked if it would teach them a thing or two and put them into line! Omg how absolutely off and wrong I was! Not having a child I didn't understand the love, connection, responsibility & trust between a parent and child. I could never ever use physical force against my son, my heart just couldn't do it plus it is so obvious why it is ineffective (all it causes the child is to fear, feel unsafe and resent/withdrawal or become more defiant). To me it is abuse. And it is very bad role modelling too. Parents need to lead by example and smacking is no different.

I was smacked as a child, but worse - I was physically & emotionally abused with a mother that just lashed out on me in horrible ways and punished me constantly. All it did was make me resent her, hate her, feel unloved, isolated, confused and not trust her and it completely ruined our relationship. I still can't bear to hug her and honestly can say I don't really love nor trust her, even though it has been many years and she has apologised and has shown to be a loving grandmother so far. I think it is much more damaging than what some realise. Yes smacking is not on the same level as what I went through but would still bring up the same feelings in a child, to a lesser extent maybe.

There are far more effective ways to discipline without using control and power, as that is just a lose lose situation. I'm not talking about a little smack once in a blue moon, I'm talking about using smacking as a constant discipline technique. Especially when they get too old for it, what's next? I see mothers smacking/ yelling at their children in the shops and it is just so obvious that what they are doing doesn't work, usually it will fire the child more up, cause them to continue their behaviour to get the reaction, or make them withdrawal and look so awfully disappointed. It is so so sad either way but I guess some people may not think that what they are doing is potentially harmful or plain ineffective and they are just quick to blame the child instead of question their technique. Back in the day when I was a child as well as my parents, soo many children were hit, in my family I didn't know any that werent! And for the most part it certainly didn't fix any behaviour issues. DH was hit too (belted actually) and he completely agrees with me 100% on no hitting, he can't bear the thought of it, it just doesn't even cross our mind with our son.

I just think the hardest part is finding another way that is effective enough in enforcing appropriate behaviour but in an acceptable way. I guess it's all good and true when we say hitting is not OK, but when faced with a defiant toddler at your wits end it can be an interesting situation. For me distraction and literally removing him from the situation is enough, but I know that soon its going to get a bit more complicated then that. Although I have looked into what discipline techniques I want continue to model (gentle parenting, positive reinforcement, praise etc) it isnt easy and i am sure it won't always work. There are some great books out there and Pinky McKay I have found to be quite good too.

All the very best and I really hope you find what works for you!


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[Jennifer13]

We were smacked as children and so was DP. I think my DD is much better behaved than myself and my sisters, without resorting to smacking, and she is certainly 10 times better behaved than DP was! Smacking in his household wasn't the extent of it either, his brother bullied him severely (and his brother was bullied at school) and DP's stepdad well and truly crossed the line in belting his brother. So where do you draw the line as an adult? And stopping his brother from beating up DP would have required a radical change in their parenting as well. This has affected their relationship for life.

Anyway, as I say, I think because we pay more attention to consequences and just how we deal with DD, rather than just repeating what we learnt growing up, we have a much better connection and more respect between us and DD. I didn't respect my mother much at all. As she grows up, I think that respect will be much more beneficial than shorter-term behavioural changes.

[Rouge]

The thing is our parents did a lot of things we dont do now. Doesn't mean they were crap. That was how they did things we have the awesomeness of knowledge and alternatives now that they didn't have. I was carried in a basket on the way home from hospital instead of a car seat as that was the done thing. Doesn't mean I'd not use a carseat and do the same.

[*LittleMissSummer*]

I smack, i have no problems with smacking.

[delphmoon]

I could never ever hit my son. I personally dont believe in smacking at all. Prior to having a child, I actually thought yes that smacking was perfectly fine and thought that maybe more children should be smacked if it would teach them a thing or two and put them into line! Omg how absolutely off and wrong I was! Not having a child I didn't understand the love, connection, responsibility & trust between a parent and child. I could never ever use physical force against my son, my heart just couldn't do it plus it is so obvious why it is ineffective (all it causes the child is to fear, feel unsafe and resent/withdrawal or become more defiant). To me it is abuse. And it is very bad role modelling too. Parents need to lead by example and smacking is no different.

Yep- absolutely.

I personally think it is frustration that makes a parent smack their child and not the belief that they are actually 'teaching' their child something. I also think that smacking a baby or toddler is questionable...what are you actually trying to communicate?

DH agreed that he wouldn't feel comfortable smacking any of his children and felt that maybe I expected him to because he is the 'man of the house'...This just goes to show how smacking your children can affect them later in life..DH was associating 'discipline' with smacking and smacking with 'being in control'. Anyway.. we discussed alternatives like time out, distraction techniques and foreseeing possible issues before they occur.

[Eenee]

I don't like smacking and intend never to smack any of my children.

However I was smacked as a child and it's hard not to have that reflex of wanting to hit, so yeah good lot smacking did me just taught me I should solve things with violence. I'm obviously not a violent person bit when DH annoys me I wack him with my hand I hare when I do it because it's not right.

To me smacking is abuse and teaching violence, like if you are a smacked how would you feel if your child hit you can't really be angry at them as that's what you have taught them!

[Miss E]

So how did you guys decide? Was there even a decision to make for some of you? What do you do if you and you partner don't agree?

I think the most important thing as parents is to be on the same page. I spend a lot of time reading about parenting techniques and asking questions here. But I also share the information I find with my DH. We talk about how we want to parent (almost on a daily basis in some shape or another) and discuss how we can/should deal with issues as they arise.

But I do think the most important thing is that my DH is willing to read an article, or a thread when I ask him to. That makes all the difference. It's not me telling him how we are going to parent. It's me engaging him in the process of us formulating our way of parenting (even though I do most of the leg work).

And it means that we're on the same page in how we go about things. We give each other pep talks and help keep one another in check.

[wrena]

I also DO care if other parents smack. Those are the kids who tend to grow up feeling entitled to disempower and manipulate people around them because of how they were taught to 'negotiate'. We've all worked with people like that - maybe not all of us, but I know for a fact that a great many of us here on BB have, from what I've read over the years of work and people experiences, let alone how our kids come home from childcare and school! I care, because it affects the world I live in and the world my kids will live in with their smacked peers. I care about other kids' welfare.

This. I don't think smacking children is acceptable and I don't think each to their own. I don't care if it's just a slap and it doesn't hurt, it's fear-based, profoundly disrespectful and ultimately ineffectual and counterproductive. Thankfully DP and I are totally on the same page and I wouldn't be with him or have a child with him if we didn't see eye to eye on this

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

The thing is our parents did a lot of things we dont do now. Doesn't mean they were crap. That was how they did things we have the awesomeness of knowledge and alternatives now that they didn't have. I was carried in a basket on the way home from hospital instead of a car seat as that was the done thing. Doesn't mean I'd not use a carseat and do the same.

Just to stir it up again - really? Honestly? They didn't have parenting books in the library, friends with other upbringings, a brain with which to think "I could try something else"? Many of the parenting philosophies have been around since before I was born. (Since before most of us were born, for that matter.)

OK, so I have parenting articles on the internet and internet friends too. Doesn't mean I can't compare them to parenting books (which I also have) and IRL friends (again, something I also have). I can say this - if my son EVER told me that he disliked the way I parented and my rules were inconsistent and unfair, I'd consider his PoV. It doesn't take a huge paradigm shift to see that children are also people and therefore have the right to an opinion. I would not punish him for MY mistakes made over many years, which finally lead to him having to say I was inconsistent and he didn't know where he stood from one day to the next. (I'd be tempted to, but I would consider his PoV.)

My parents did lots of things I'd love to do with Liebling, but I can't: increased traffic, for one example, means he can't play with his friends on the road and where we live now I wouldn't let him walk to the park on his own in a couple of years. Next house yes (no roads to cross) but this one no. I wouldn't be happy with not seeing him all day in the summer: we live in a fretful time with every worry blown over the papers. Not every parenting change is a good one.

[Rouge]

Maybe it's a cultural thing... or an era thing. But I know this because my MIL and another one of my gf's mothers often comments "I wish I knew xyz" or "I wish I didn't do xyz". I had a conversation with my gf's mother tonight who said point blank "I watch my daughters and DIL's parent and I realise how bad of a parent I was." I asked her "Did you parent differently to everyone else around you? Were you subject to people who parented like we do now" to which she said she didn't. And she was genuinely upset by the fact that she wished she'd done things the way we do now. And her daughter said to me, it's the same for her and watching her SIL parent now with things like BLS which wasn't even something she knew about when her oldest (now in highschool) was a bub and she wished she did. I don't prescribe to the idea that everyone except our generation is naive or ignorant KWIM?

And with regards to parenting books, if you look at publications from the era they talked about needing to discipline children with smacking and how spoiling children was wrong. So I don't think having access to parenting books would have necessarily helped and I have no doubt that gentle parenting books would have been looked down on as bohemian or something. KWIM? It's not an excuse. And there is a big difference between parenting in the style of the times and abuse. I say this because I was abused, emotionally and physically. And it is VERY different. I also have no doubt that when our children are having children they will iron out more kinks too. Parenting to some extent is treated very much like a science and therefore it will evolve.