20 minutes of sobbing 'helps put baby to sleep'

[Smoke Jaguar]

Ergh, how depressing

[Marlene]

This was on the Today show this morning and caused arguments in my house already, LOL. Why do some people believe everything they see on TV because its said by a so called "expert"? DH believes in CC....and I don't...lucky I am the one who has to deal with the baby then, huh?
Its hard when every time Jack wont sleep DH just turns around and says "let him cry"...makes me more determined to be gentle, HAHAHA.
I do let Jack have a whinge (as GothMum said sometimes a whinge can help them wind down) but I will NOT let him cry, I don't care what DH thinks about it!!!

[bon]

I saw this on the Today show too. I was slightly annoyed by the doctor's comments that babies can start 'manipulating' us from birth. Sure. And if we give in to them they will grow up to be 'self absorbed'. Hmmmm.

[Smoke Jaguar]

I don't know why they bother quoting doctors and the AMA...I think a cross section of pyschologists, child and adult, would be more appropriate! Doctors aren't the ones who study cortisol and adrenalin levels related to stress in kids and adults
Also, manipulation and self-absorption are tendencies of kids whose needs are NOT met, who are 'punished' and 'rewarded', NOT of kids who are unconditionally loved and their needs respected and met.
But, this is what parents want to hear - they want to hear that life can go back to normal for them (and thus remain in denial that they ever had kids)...ARGH!

[Glamourcide]

I was slightly annoyed by the doctor's comments that babies can start 'manipulating' us from birth. Sure. And if we give in to them they will grow up to be 'self absorbed'. Hmmmm.

That kind of stuff bothers me, too. What, so there is absolutely no way on earth a bad habit or behaviour pattern can be broken once a child gets away with it a few times?? God, I'm in big trouble then lol It's a moot argument, imo - there are always ways to establish new patterns and behaviours - not every little thing you allow your child to do is going to affect them long-term, kwim??

[Kitt3n]

IMO there is no such thing as "controlled crying" - if they are crying you are not controlling the situation!!!

This is the most critical stage for a child to develop empathy - leaving them to cry/scream (IMO!!) is more likely to result in a psychopathic adult!!

[Toomanytoomany]

"ASHLEY Thonemann realised it was time to change her routine when baby Bailey, eight months, refused to go to sleep without being rocked or being given a bottle...The family were exhausted, and decided to try controlled crying."

It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to work out that these are not the only two alternatives.

""Eighty-five per cent of parents who used it said their relationship with their child was better, and none said worse," she said."

To quote a well worn phrase - well, they would say that, wouldn't they? It's still a logical fallacy - they may be relating to their child better because they are getting more sleep. But who knows what the outcome would have been if they had achieved that result in a different way? Again, there is more than one answer to disrupted sleeping habits than "controlled" crying.

I don't even let my five year old cry for twenty minutes without offering comfort, no matter what the cause of the crying is. And if I am crying and no-one in my family pays attention, I find it absolutely devastating, regardless of how justified or otherwise my tears are.

[misty]

With DD I had no choice but to let her cry herself to sleep otherwise she wouldn't sleep but would still be crying nonstop anyway. - she would originally cry for at least 20-30mins, in the end there was no crying just sleep. But she was a dreadful crier - if she was awake she was crying. She had dreadful reflux and nothing else would work, she would usually wake up happy. That is not to say I never comforted her, but if nothing was working and it was a choice between her crying herself to sleep or me holding her whilst she still screamed her lungs out and going quietly insane, well it wasn't much of a choice...

With DS, he rarely ever cried - so when he did there was no way I would just leave him to cry it out - he needed comfort, and would calm down when he received it.

With this third one, it will depend on what works best.

I guess my point is "horses for courses". What works for one baby will not work for another.

[Eugenia]

"ASHLEY Thonemann realised it was time to change her routine when baby Bailey, eight months, refused to go to sleep without being rocked or being given a bottle...The family were exhausted, and decided to try controlled crying."

It doesn't take a great deal of imagination to work out that these are not the only two alternatives.

So true, our 3 year old currently gets sung to or her daddy plays guitar for her until she falls asleep, our son gets patted to sleep. It only takes 15 minutes out of our day and both children fall asleep knowing mummy and daddy care for them and are always there for them. We had issues with DD waking up at night when she was ounger but we never left her to cry, if she did cry there was always someone there holding her until she calmed down.

I know that long-term sleep deprivation really knocks you areound but people have to be realistic, being a parent means that life will change a lot, including the amount of sleep you get, and if you don't want it to change then don't have kids. It's that simple.

[Glamourcide]

^ I think it's a bit narrow-minded to say things like 'If you like your sleep, don't have a family'... every situation is different and what works great for some mums and bubs, doesn't work so well for others.
I'm sure everybody who has, or intends upon having, kids is well aware of the fact that they will lose a LOT of sleep - and that's fine, we're prepared for that, but there are so many circumstances in which an overtired parent can actually do more harm than good for their child.

Sleep deprivation has been repeatedly proven to cause, or exacerbate, physical and mental illness, and in extreme cases can lead to severe mental breakdowns or even death (again, I said 'extreme' cases). I'm not suggesting that we all leave our kids to sob themeslves to sleep every night, but I know that a lot of mothers have health issues, such as PND, which are adversely affected by a severe lack of sleep and happy mums = happy babies, so suggesting that a parent 'just put up with it' doesn't help.

I know that everybody's situation is different, but myself personally, well let's just say that if I don't get a decent night's sleep, DD is the one who suffers the next day because I simply cannot muster the energy to crack a smile, let alone run around in the backyard with her, read her endless storybooks, and interact with her on the level she deserves. I also find that if she wakes during the night, going to her and picking her up only tells her 'it's morning, playtime!!' and she refuses to go back to sleep - meaning I'm then up for hours, trying to keep DD quiet so as not to wake the rest of the household, and I don't catch up on that sleep during the day because I have housework to do. If I leave her to settle herself (which she usually does in less than three minutes), the house is soon quiet and everybody can continue sleeping uninterrupted. And the next day, I'm able to be the mother DD deserves - energetic, fun to be around, and much more patient and tolerant of the inevitable tantrums and mischief.
I do not feel that this in any way impacts on my relationship with DD - it's a trust issue. She knows that if it's important, I am there for her in seconds, but if she's woken up for 'no good reason', she has the coping skills to shrug it off and go back to sleep without my help. I'm not saying my way is any better than your way, but it works for us, whereas it might not work for you and your kids, the way your methods might not work for me and my kids, etc.

I also consider myself very lucky in that I have the support of my parents - if DD is having a bad few days and I'm at my wits' end I know that my parents will gladly take DD for the night and allow me to catch up on sleep and get my head together. Other women may not have that support, and it's not just they who suffer for it - it's their children as well.

Sorry for the long ramble, but yeah... sometimes things just aren't as simple and easy as, 'Suck it up, you big lug'.

[~Saram~]

firstly, I don't mean to be harsh and I agree different things work for different people but coming from a mum who is mourning the fact she isn't having any more babies I don't understand people who control cry - I don't mean people who sit with a crying baby - I agree sometimes kids need a cry to let out tension but I don't understand why you want a baby of 6mth to "learn to sleep by themselves" i just don't get it???? I LOVE snuggling up with my kids at bedtime - yes it's a pain when we are entertaining and i need to excuse myself to read to them and lie with them until they fall asleep but wow what a blissful time we have in there - in fact my hubby and I now argue over who gets to put the kids to sleep :-)

Not once have i ever had a problem with my kids coming out of their rooms, asking for water, procrastinating or hating going to bed, everyone loves bedtime it is such a gentle time to sit in the dark and be with each other after a busy day. When my babies were little I would rock or pat or cuddle or just sit with them, now they are too big so we lie down together until my youngest falls asleep. My eldest tells me he doesn't need me to stay anymore but I should stay until his sister falls asleep and if I need to get up for any reason he gets into bed with her and they snuggle together.

I know parents are busy and life is stressful especially when they are little but enjoy the blissful sleeping time because 10 yrs from now they won't need you to rock or cuddle them to sleep and you will miss it desperately. We only have them little for such a short amount of time, don't rush them to "grow up" or become "independant" too fast

PS - after attachemnt parenting both my kids I have to say in comparison to my nephews and nieces my two have less seperation anxiety, are less clingy and more independant - and sleep better :-)

Sorry for the rant JMO

[Inertia]

Never going to happen.

Last time I let some stupid MCHN talk me into "controlled crying", Angie was still sobbing as she slept! That to me was so very wrong and could not possibly have been healthy on a mental level.

IMO, if someone doesn't want to be woken up by a crying baby - don't have a baby. They eat, sleep, poop and cry. That much is not a national secret.

[Just Me]

I got to the point of letting my DD cry herself to sleep when she was about 9 months old - she had been teething and all her good sleep patterns had gone and I was completely exhausted (I read earlier it doesn't take imagination to do something different, but I didn't have any other info and I saw one of those 'baby whisperer' interview with their magic fix and I was feeling desperate). It did absolutely no good at all. She would scream and try to climb back up my arm as I put her down in the cot to sleep. She became terrified of her own bed. We started rocking her to sleep again after only 2 days of trying cc but she would sleep with one eye open and wake the second she was put down and start her terrified screaming again. She would eventually settle but as soon as we opened the door to leave the room it would start again. It was a nightmare. Eventually we went back to using the Tweedle method (which we had used when she was very young) and sitting next to her bed and patting her to sleep. It took 2 months to reverse the damage of 2 days.

The other thing we found it that if she ever did fall asleep while crying, she would wake herself up again with sobbing. It was horrible.

We have tried nothing of the sort with DS and had no real sleep issues with him. I also think that I have adjusted to being a parent a little better now that I had when I had my first baby.