P.E.T. article: Don't Children Want Authority and Limits?

[BellyBelly]

Parent Effectiveness Training: The Blog: Don't Children Want Authority and Limits?

A belief commonly held by both laypeople and professionals is that children actually want authority--they like parents to restrict their behavior by setting limits. When parents use their authority, so the argument goes, children feel more secure. Without limits, they not only will be wild and undisciplined but also insecure. An extension of this belief is that if parents do not use authority to set limits, their children will feel the parents do not care and will feel unloved.

While I suspect this belief is embraced by many because it gives them a neat justification for using power, I do not want to discredit the belief as a mere rationalization. There is some truth in the belief and so it must be examined rather carefully.

Common sense and experience strongly support the idea that children do want limits in their relationship with parents. They need to know how far they can go before their behavior will be unacceptable. Only then can they choose not to engage in such behaviors. This applies to all human relationships.

For example, I am much more secure when I know which of my behaviors are unacceptable to my wife. One that comes to mind is playing golf or going to my office to work on a day when we entertain guests. By knowing ahead of time that my absence will be unacceptable because my wife needs my help, I can choose not to play golf or go to the office and avoid her displeasure or anger and probably a conflict.

However, it is one thing for a child to want to know the "limits of her parents' acceptance" and an entirely different thing to say that she wants her parent to set those limits on her behavior. To return to the example involving my wife and me: I am helped when I know her feelings about my playing golf or going to the office on days we entertain. But I certainly will bristle and be resentful if she tries to set a limit on my behavior by some such statement as, "I cannot permit you to play golf or go to the office on days we are having guests. That's a limit. You are not to do those things."

I would not appreciate this power approach at all. It is ridiculous to suppose that my wife would even try to control and direct my behavior this way. Children respond no differently to limit setting on the part of the parent. Equally strong is their bristling and resentment when a parent unilaterally tries to set a limit on their behavior. I have never known a child who wants a parent to set a limit on her behavior like this:

"You must be in by midnight--that's my limit."
"I cannot permit you to take the car."
"You cannot play with your truck in the living room."
"We must demand that you not smoke pot."
"We have to restrict you from going with those two boys."

The reader will recognize all these communications as our familiar "sending the solution" (also, all are You-Messages).

A much sounder principle than "children want their parents to use their authority and set limits" is the following:

Children want and need information from their parents that will tell them the parent's feelings about their behavior. so that they themselves can modify behavior that might be unacceptable to the parents. However, children do not want the parent to try to limit or modify their behavior by using or threatening to use their authority. In short, children want to limit their behavior themselves if it becomes apparent to them that their behavior must be limited or modified. Children, like adults, prefer to be their own authority over their behavior.

One further point: children actually would prefer that all their behavior were acceptable to their parents, so that it would be unnecessary to limit or modify any of their behavior. I, too, would prefer that my wife would find all my behavior unconditionally acceptable. That's what I would prefer, but I know it is not only unrealistic, but impossible.

So parents should not expect, nor will their children expect of them, that they will be accepting of all behavior. What children have a right to expect, however, is that they always be told when their parents are not feeling accepting of a certain behavior (I don't like to be tugged and pulled when I'm talking to a friend"). This is quite different from wanting parents to use authority to set limits on their behavior.*

*An excerpt from Dr. Thomas Gordon's P.E.T., Parent Effectiveness Training book

Like what you are reading? By learning PET, you can make positive changes and have a more peaceful household - where your children come to you when they have a problem. The PET book is available from the BellyBelly online store HERE.

[tenar]

Taking the example for a young child: "you cannot play with your truck in the living room", how would you phrase it, or communicate that thing, in a way that would be less likely to "offend" the child (offend really isn't the right word here, I can't think how to explain better what I mean).

I guess you can, in some cases, phrase it as a positive, eg "please play with your truck in the garden". Is that better? it seems to me to be as much dictating to the child what they should do as the original.

You can express it as a personal feeling "I don't like it when you play with your truck in the living room". Is that better?

You can give a reason "when you play with your truck in the living room you are noisy and it wakes the baby up". Reasons are good. Are they always necessary?

I'm trying to brainstorm here, because the above article seems to me to be saying "don't do this" without suggesting any particular different ways for a parent to achieve their goals of guiding their childrens' behaviour or of setting sensible household rules for coexistence. I'm sure there are ways to do this, just wondering what people think those ways would be.

[skeetaboat]

Yeah I think you've hit it on the head with 'I would like you to play with the truck outside so the noise doesn't wake the baby (or whatever your reason)'.

I think reasons are good - there's no point having a rule/limit for no good reason, and children are more likely to understand the rule/limit if you explain why it's needed. If someone directs me to do something (eg a doctor), I always want to know why...and if they can't explain why I need to do what they're telling me, I disregard their directions.. I think the same applies for kids too.

[Ezz]

The interesting thing about this article is that it assumes that we each can choose the behaviour that is ok for us - that children should be able to listen to your wishes about something & then make up their mind - to be their own authority. This assumes that children have all the information & the maturity to make the appropriate decision. But there are going to be some situations where parents will need to enforce limits for safety (eg. you must walk with an adult on the road, you cannot climb on the roof) - and regardless of whether our children like it, these limits are good for them.

Further, I wonder whether this type of parenting (giving children the authority over their behaviour) is really preparing them for life in wider society? If we constantly just tell kids our wishes, without expecting them to comply, how are they going to be prepared for schooling?? (where teachers will just give instructions & exect them to be obeyed - regardless of whether the child likes it, or thinks it is a reasonable request??) We all have to submit to governing authorities (the police, government, employers, teachers). These authorities do put limits on our behaviour (speed limits, dress codes, noise restrictions, etc), and we are expected to comply.

[BellyBelly]

I dont have much time to explain, have a doctors appt... but it explains an teaches values and needs... needs as in someone 'needs' something like some quiet time to do some work and also values - things that don't affect you but you want e.g. dinner to be eaten a certain way, no playing at the table - whatever. Because we are all different and have different needs and values, so it teaches you to come to a medium with your child on values vs needs. I debated posting this article because you really need to learn the method to understand it. In the last week, I have instantly defused two blowups and I was happy as were they...

[*EJ*]

I have recently ordered a copy of this book and i'm looking forward to reading it...

Currently i would like to think i am setting some boundries for my child to prepare him for life and the situations he will come across in a very gentle way. It's the only way i know how right now. I am not all about you can't do this and you can't do that, i try to give him space to learn for himself. However when i do need to enforce something and as result get the 'blowups' i struggle to reason with him and get the outcome that i am trying to teach him v's the outcome he is damanding. This is what i find really challenging.

A few months ago i went to a council run info session on dicipline and it was a waist of time, I wanted to know the best way to deal with the challenges our children present on a daily basis in a gentle way as to not scar them for life because i maybe handled things the wrong way. Be it too forcfully or not. I'm not sure if their are answers to my questions but i'll continue to look around and try and inform myself as best as i can.

I partially understand where the article is coming from but as Bellybelly said maybe i need to maybe read the book and it all in context to completey understand.

[BellyBelly]

Thats the thing when they are having a tantrum or a blow up you just cannot reason with them. But you can hear them and understand them so they can express how they feel and 'vent'.

Example of my son's party when I noticed him looking really sad and miserable in the corner after everyone ran off to play after food time:

Me: You look really sad
Him: I don't want to go and play
Me: So you're sad because you dont want to go and play
Him: Yes, I don't want to waste my energy (he was looking reeeeeeally tired since lunch)
Me: So you don't want to play because that will use up all your energy
Him: Yes, I'm really tired
Me: Hmmm you're tired, well how about we have a bit of a cuddle; you don't have to play right now if you don't want to
(had a quick hug on my lap)
(a friend runs in and says hello to my son, then my son jumps off my lap and races off) LOL!!!

An example of my daughter cracking it at bedtime, bearing in mind she rarely talks about her feelings and we'd stopped the bedtime stories because she was acting up interrupting all the time. After we left, she was kept getting out of bed and trying to drag me back, over and over again, she was being very upset and stubborn and then I realised I had to do my PET stuff! Can't remember all of it so will do my best, but its something like this:

Me: You seem really angry
Her: I want you to finish the story
Me: So you're angry because you want me to finish the story
Her: You're so mean, you never give me anything I want
Me: So you're angry because I don't give you anything you want
Her: You don't let us play the computer game with daddy on Wednesday nights anymore (they get one night a week to play an internet game with their dad but due to internet connection probs and other things they had missed out a few weeks)
Me: So you feel upset that you can't play with daddy on Wednesday nights?
Her: Yes (really sad face)
Me: Well how about this, I will send a message to daddy right now and ask him if he can go online tomorrow night (it was Wednesday) and I will tell him its very important for you. Then in the morning I can tell you all about it.
Her: Yes please (puts herself into bed and goes to sleep).

Crisises over. Its as easy and quick as that - you can choose to fight and argue with them for hours and ruin your night/day or you can say a few things and avoid ALL that. They just want to express their emotions as we do and feel validated as we do. Arguing with them when they are upset or tantruming (like with an adult) gets nowhere but more fighting, defensiveness and you don't think straight, you say what you don't mean. But see with my daughter's example, her tantrums were covering up how she really felt, something that was really bothering her... you have to keep on validating: So you're angry because xxx until you work down to the bottom and find the real reason. I don't find it tedious as it sounds but incredible that its often not what you think causing the problem, so you can prevent future episodes.

I love PET. I shout less, I lose it with them MUCH less. I don't use time out. I don't punish. Because I don't need to. And in turn they are learning life skills on problem solving and relating to others about how they feel without yelling back.