Pitbulls

[Butterfly Dawn]

I have met a pit bull that was submissive to a Jack russell.
And like I said earlier- the "lock jaw" is a terrier thing, jack russells are terriers.
I think any dog that is mistreated (and you can mistreat a dog by just not walking it every day, or treating it like its human not just beating it etc) has the potential to hurt or attempt a kill.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Agreed, there needs to be a wider and more serious discussion about taking ALL dog ownership and responsibility seriously. Any dog can be dangerous. From what I've read over the years, the non-dangerous dogs that attack and kill are 'family pets' who snapped. They were already in the home and I'm not sure what you do about that on a wider scale. The reason the dangerous dogs are listed as such is because of the unprovoked attacks where no-one's been able to take them off their victim and they go LOOKING for an outlet for aggression. I think that's the key difference, and it's not JUST a case of blinkered vision.
Any dog, without compassionate training, is going to have the propensity to do damage. I've seen my dog with possums and chickens - he is a DOG with them and gets into a frenzy. He CAN leave off when commanded, and that's critical. I'm not afraid to intervene in a fight he's involved in with a smaller dog (it's always him being the victim, anyway! 7 years and he's never instigated an attack!). If he ever hurt someone they would have to have really provoked him. Then again, some of us can say these things with confidence because we ARE responsible pet owners. The ones who aren't and say they're dogs are ok need to be identified and disallowed from pet ownership!

[Artechim]

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear in my earlier post - I would always register a dog with the council, I was only saying I would register as a similar but non-restricted breed if my dog was a pit bull.

I would like to see some sort of enforced training when acquiring a dog so people can learn about basic training and the social structure a dog needs. Unfortunately it will never happen - there will always be people the expect their dog to magically train itself, or who don't realize what they are doing around the house that elevates a dog to a higher position than the people.

[Miss.September]

I think any dog that is mistreated (and you can mistreat a dog by just not walking it every day, or treating it like its human not just beating it etc) has the potential to hurt or attempt a kill.

And this is the problem right here. Not every dog that is vicious has been mistreated. Sometimes it's just in them. And sometimes, no matter what you do, you simply can't get it out of them. Why run the risk?

[christy]

I agree, all dogs have the potential. If 1/3 of their make up has to do with environment and that is all you have control over.... than all dogs have that potential.

One of our dogs was covered with cigarette burns when we became her foster parents. She was 8 months, so we only had control over 1/3 of her behaviour. We worked hard with her as we were trying to rehome her, but after 2 weeks decided to keep her. She is now 13 yrs old. I didn't trust her for 12 years and now she's becoming senile, I still don't trust her. She has NEVER bitten anyone. But after working with dogs for 13 years, I kind of know..... I know not to trust her.

[peanutter]

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear in my earlier post - I would always register a dog with the council, I was only saying I would register as a similar but non-restricted breed if my dog was a pit bull.

I really don't understand your position. I've read your previous posts, I've read all the rest of the thread, and I'm still at a loss.

Doing what you suggest is dishonest, illegal, and putting your dog's life in immediate jeopardy. I don't understand why you (who from my previous experience believe to be an intelligent, articulate, honest and loving mother and dog-lover) have this view.

I just don't get it.

[Kazzo]

Our local council and a neighbouring council are having surrender your restricted breed for free no questions asked for the next month. It will be very intersesting to see what types and how many dogs get surrended.

[PumpkinZulu]

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear in my earlier post - I would always register a dog with the council, I was only saying I would register as a similar but non-restricted breed if my dog was a pit bull.

Without coming across as too much of a self-righteous cow, if you were to do that I would sincerely hope a neighbour would report you and your animal were to be taken and destroyed. There are rules and regulations in place for a reason, they aren't there for poops and giggles, or to annoy people who seem to be far too hellbent on adamantly owning one of the very few dangerous breeds over the 100's of allowed breeds. But that's just my opinion (which is not the only one, nor necessarily the right one), I'd hate to come across as acting like I was better than what I am.

Kazzo I think that's a great idea (reminds me of a surrender your knife day a while back) but I doubt many people will turn up. I guess the heart of the issue is, that generally these dangerous dogs are still somebodies loved pet If people simply didn't decide to choose a dangerous breed in the first place, this problem would be far less prominent.

[LimeSlice]

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear in my earlier post - I would always register a dog with the council, I was only saying I would register as a similar but non-restricted breed if my dog was a pit bull.

And if did deliberately set out to mislead and break clear laws and your dog attacked my kids or me, Lord help you - I'd be coming after you myself.
Wow. I cannot even fathom how irresponsible that is!!

[Smoke Jaguar]

In the end, the dog pays for it. Lying in a registration smacks of self-interest, rather than interest in the dog's welfare in the society it lives in, or of that society and its members...more particularly, the littlest members who are like the dogs in having no agency in their destiny.
Sure, the 'search and destroy' policy is knee-jerk, and I hate it. The legislation sucks. The motivation behind it does not. That motivation is to make dogs and people safe. Subverting that, on purpose, is not helping the situation that brought about the legislation. Sometimes you have to do the hard thing to do the right thing.

[Miss.September]

I guess I agree with the search and destroy policy. Owners of these dogs have time to do the right thing. If they don't do the right thing, then they're putting everyone around them at potential risk. Want to keep the dog? Register it!

The other thing to think about is what happens in an emergency? You need an ambulance or fire brigade? Then what happens? That's also the reason why these rules are in place. In our council, the dog must be wearing a reflective collar at all times so it is recognised as being a dangerous dog from a distance away. It isn't just about having a friendly pet that is technically classified as a dangerous breed. It's about what any dog will do should someone break into your backyard - for legit purposes. A smaller dog might attack and defend, but a larger dog with the bred instinct to bite is going to cause a lot of damage to someone trying to help you. And that dog may not have shown any signs of it at all in it's entire life.

[alish]

Our local council and a neighbouring council are having surrender your restricted breed for free no questions asked for the next month. It will be very intersesting to see what types and how many dogs get surrended.

might be a bit of a stupid question - but will these dogs be getting destroyed?

will they be getting blood tests done to prove they are actually pit bull? what if they werent?

i get so angry reading this thread but i cant keep away from it.

[Artechim]

Just saying that there is no way to enforce the pit bull legislation effectively. As I said before it is only a token to make the general public feel like the issue is being addressed. It is penalizing the owners willing to tell the truth while not affecting the owners who don't bother to register and whom are more likely to have the dangerous dogs (imo). It is only a matter of opinion if a dog is an allowed american staffy cross or a pit bull and I would be choosing the easier option.

I would never have a pit bull. I don't support any back yard breeding, regardless of breed.

ETA, I am not even entirely sure of my own point lol. 9 months pregnant, two snotty sick kids and about 3 hours of sleep at night....

[Kazzo]

might be a bit of a stupid question - but will these dogs be getting destroyed?

will they be getting blood tests done to prove they are actually pit bull? what if they werent?

i get so angry reading this thread but i cant keep away from it.

Any dog that is restricted or banned and gets surrended is euthanized so yeah, they will. Anyone who does decide to surrender their dog will be told this. There is no option of rehoming.

As for testing, I don't know, but I doubt it.

[alish]

that makes me sad

[nothing2lose]

I am saving my tears for the parents who have a child who has been injured or killed by a dangerous dog. Not to mention the elderly women and men who have also been attacked and killed.

[meow]

I know putting the animals down seems full on but really, they shouldn't even be alive and living in people's homes in the first place.

This thread makes me angry too and for quite the opposite reason Alish!

[LuluHB]

While I am definitely in the anti-pitbull camp, I think what is really sad in all of this is that there are going to be some lovely dogs out there that get destroyed. They are going to be someone's pet and its going to be extremely hard for everyone. Whether they should be in the home or not, how do you explain to children that their beloved family pet has to be put to sleep? What is going to cause enormous problems is that there is no way to clearly identify which dogs are the "right" cross breeds, and some dogs who don't have a drop of pit bull blood in them could be wrongly destroyed.

As has been previously said, this problem is bigger than just pitbulls. There should be much tougher restrictions on all dog breeding, compulsory de-sexing of non-breeding dogs, compulsory training sessions etc. It will probably mean dogs and puppies will be more expensive to buy, but IMHO if you can't afford the initial purchase price then you really can't afford a dog.