Neither child has a day sleep, and haven't for a long time. On the rare occasion they do (in the car), then bedtime is way later.

DD was 21 months when DS was born. Feeding to sleep had stopped working during the pregnancy, and we had moved to cuddles on the couch to then DD falling asleep in her bed with one of us sitting next to her or laying next to her. We were also able to leave for a few minutes and come back and then extend the gap and eventually she was asleep. Over time, and as the baby needed more assistance at 'bedtime', DD more often fell asleep out on the couch where i was helping DS. She also began feeding to sleep again, which was a lovely way to reconnect, when days were a bit tough with a refluxy/colicky little brother.

If DS doesn't stir her up, she is ok with cuddles on the couch then head to bed and we read a few books. She will keep telling us that she is not tired, (we are working on relaxation methods with her) but is ok with DH saying he is just going to make a cuppa and will come back. She is less accomodating with me leaving, but getting there. She got a 'chapter book' (one of the faraway tree books) for christmas, and as they have few pictures i ask her to lie down while i read or i will have to stop reading. She doesn't fall asleep while i read, but it does help to get her calm. It still takes her over an hour to fall asleep after we go to the bedroom.

DS also stopped breastfeeding to sleep during my pregnancy, although he still likes to have a drink of water when getting ready for sleep. He shares a room with DD. He still comes into our room to sleep for the second half of the night around 80% of the time (another thing that will be difficult with #3). He weaned completely during the pregnancy, and has some food intolerances (dairy) and eczema and some gut issues , but much improved since he was a baby. On the nights i have tried to get him to sleep by himself in his bed, i read books and then sit next to his bed. He then jumps around and kicks the walls .... I moved to the door, sat on the floor and said i would come back when he had settled down. He jumped for awhile, then came over to me and signed "come with me". I went over and he got back in bed but then started the wiggling/jumping again. I moved back to the door. After another 5 minutes, he yawned, signed "come" again, and then lay down on his bed and with me sitting next to him he fell asleep. So again, at least an hour from going to the room to sleep.
DH will pat him to sleep on the bed, and this will help him to sleep quicker, but i find that quite difficult (low bed, and it hurts my hands) and i don't think i will be able to do that every time when i have a newborn, particularly if the baby is high needs, as the other two have been.

When i try to combine the two kids in their beds, there is chaos. I have tried reading to both on one bed, which sometimes will work (if book engages DS) but often they kick, hit, cuddle... each other. Trying to get them to stay on their own beds, just leads to disharmony and it's not how i want them to go to sleep, and doesn't leave me relaxed, which is kinda the whole point of trying to get them to sleep.

DD would love for DS to sleep in her bed, but i don't think DS is keen. He much prefers mum and dad s bed.

I have been reluctant to introduce electrical audio tools at bedtime (tried when DD was young and it seemed to spark her up), but maybe one on a timer would be worth trying for DD now.

I wonder whether i need to work on DD alone, and just suck it up with DS needing us for a bit longer. Last night, was trying both kids at one time with DH and i tagging in, but keeping both kids in the bedroom. I read books and then lay on the floor (i was tired ok ). My theory was as long as they were in their room, eventually they would go to their beds, and once they realised it wasn't that rough they might start to enjoy it. Eventually, however i got jack of it and said they didn't have to go to sleep, but they had to stay in their room, and i headed out to lounge. Cue crying.... children wandering out to hall. DH took them back and got them to bed, but was also tired and not up to it last night. Comes back to to get drink, and both kids come back. Both taken back to bed. DD stays in bed with threats, but DS crying in hall. Doesn't want DH, only Mum. I walk him back to bed and he lies down. I sit on floor with head on bed until i think he is asleep (20 mins?). Walk back to lounge. He wanders out again. I give up and he crawls up on couch and falls asleep with his head on my leg (5 mins?). DH then carries him down to bed.

Oh yeah, i am not meant to be carrying either child at the moment due to tummy issues (muscle separation and hernia), which has been another motivator to get them to fall asleep in their own beds rather than on the couch.

I think about trying to just focus on DD, but i can't just leave DS or suspend him. I know DD will (should) be more tired when she starts kinder, and hopefully this will help with her falling asleep. If she is calm in bed, i can then work on DS in his bed too.

It was nice to see posts to see that i am not alone, and i found many similarities in your stories.