Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

[Bathsheba]

You'd think there'd be quite a significant number of pregnant women in developed countries that drink milk fresh from cows... especially in Europe (France). And to be honest... if I lived in a French village I probably would too... and be waaaay more concerned about a bottle of pasturised milk that been left out all day which i wouldn't touch. Japanse women might not consume sushi every day but rice would still be their staple... do pregnant women there avoid using rice if it has cooled down and been kept for a day? I think I'm sounding argumentative LOL I suspect deep down I'm a food purist... who can easily imagine a time when we all may have to 'resort' to living off their own locally available and grown foods (yay!). If society crumbled tomorrow and we couldn't get our wide choice of safe foods then there's going to be helluva lot of scared women. Even if we had to sustain a long blackout (like they did in SE QLD recently)... if pregnant women can't bring food to boiling point then there could be mass alarm. I guess what I'm saying is that YES the foods on the Best Avoided list are there for a reason, I don't think it should necessarily cause a sleepless night if a woman inadvertantly injests an "Avoid" food.

[Inanna]

I totally agree Bath - it shouldn't cause emotional distress - but it usually does - especially when one has experienced loss. It does make one hypervigilant - for better or for worse!

I too am a purist - however we cannot avoid the reality that listeriosis is a caause for fetal death and we can choose if we will risk it or not understanding the risk... I hope that made sense!

[Kaydee]

You'd think there'd be quite a significant number of pregnant women in developed countries that drink milk fresh from cows... especially in Europe (France).

My mother-in-law was brought up on a German (mainly dairy) farm. They would only drink the milk straight from the cow. Her mother and brother's family (DH's Oma) still live on that same farm, and the family STILL drink the milk like that. I was so careful everytime (during pregnancy) I visited the farm and made sure i had nothing with milk in it.
Funnily enough - Oma had 8 kids (i think) and almost all of them are lactose and wheat intolerant. only finding out in their late teens/adulthood.

[MantaRay]

Bath, when I lived in Japan, the rice was cooked daily. I don't think I ever saw rice reheated. It never lasted that long TBH, they ate a lot of rice! So it would be kept warm in the rice cooker and served as needed. Then another batch cooked, probaby 2 -3 times a day.

[sushee]

I don't know about Japan, but we have never keep rice overnight either. My mum has probably never even heard of listeria but whenever I was pg I was only allowed to eat rice piping hot too. She would have a fit if I ate cold rice. Even now she insists that her younger grandchildren cannot eat rice that been left sitting until it's gone cold (as compared to cooled after being served hot).

[Inanna]

Hoobley, I aim every day to not cause harm - be it emotional or physical... It appears that I have caused you pain by my response to your post. I wanted to "speak" to you publicly as to me it's important for others to understand my stance.

I need to be honest - for it is not my responsibility to be dishonest in order to save your pain either. I feel your comments were insensitive because before we speak we need to think of who is hearing our words and how they will be processed. As a speaker that is our responsibility - hence my responsibility is to now be clearer about my response!

If you were responding to a post that was in regard to infertility and that eating pork increases the risk of infertility... In this thread women that were suffering infertility were replying. I came along and said: "well I'm growing increasingly tired of this post and I have suffered from infertility but I still ate pork and look I have a baby... It is my belief that some women just can't have babies..." ( I know your words were different - I am trying to paint the picture) How would that be heard?

Okay all of that would be true and valid - but would it be appropriate? I believe it would not.

Infertility is painful - women don't want it brought up that "some women just can't have babies"... When you are trying to keep the faith - for some women hearing that just sucks... Miscarriage and loss is painful - holding a dead baby in your arms is gut wrenching - having someone tell you "it's just not meant to be" sucks.

As you well know M & L is my "baby" - I protect my "cubs" with a passion - and the other night I responded quickly and swiftly and the way I couched my response clearly hurt you. I was propelled by my inbox, by the fact that I had just spent 2 hours with a woman who had just discovered her 16week old fetus was dead... So we all come from our own place when we respond - however I am responsible for my words and my intent wasn't to harm you. Rather it was to quickly and swiftly point out that your words were heard in a hurtful manner.

I think you B are a legend - I can think something you said was not okay without thinking you are not okay. Does that make sense? I will not and cannot agree with you always - or anyone. But, honestly stating my Truth I believe is important. However, clearly I should have been less quick to respond and kinder in my language.

How do I see the world? Well, I believe that we all come into this life from a past one (unless we are very unucky) and I think we have lessons, I think we have Karma attatched to our Being. I don't think someone is driving our car so to speak. I don't believe in God in the sense that religions do.. I actually do believe "that all is just how it should be". But that does not mean I have no control at all over my path. There are many roads to the end of our journey's - sometimes we choose the tough path and sometimes when we listen to our intuition and our Guidance we can make it a little easier. The lessons are the same - just how we learn them may be different. Had I listened to my intuition I would not have said Goodbye so many times...

There is an Arabic proverb that says something to the effect of: "Trust in Allah - but tie up your horse first"...

So, I hope that this explains myself to you - again you do not need to "reinstate" anything. I can disagree with you without disliking you. They are not the same thing!

So, Hoobley (and anyone else that felt my response was OT) thankyou for the lesson in waiting and not responding quickly! Thankyou for valuing me enough to take time to write to me. Thankyou for being the wonderful BB member of my Village that you are!

Merry Christmas to you Hoobs - and know I send you love and hugs across the waves...

ETA: Sam is right I am approachable!..

[paradise lost]

Flowerchild!

You know, i had unsubscribed, thank GOODness i was surfing and saw you'd posted again!

I really liked this:

If you were responding to a post that was in regard to infertility and that eating pork increases the risk of infertility... In this thread women that were suffering infertility were replying. I came along and said: "well I'm growing increasingly tired of this post and I have suffered from infertility but I still ate pork and look I have a baby... It is my belief that some women just can't have babies..." ( I know your words were different - I am trying to paint the picture) How would that be heard?

Because even though the example is different, it does illustrate the reason for your hurt so much more clearly, thankyou! It is sometimes so hard to delineate, isn't it, between personal and general feelings. I was so wrapped up in trying to explain why i had the attitude i did, i didn't think for a second that someone who was NOT in or about to come from the place i'm at could actually be tripped up and really hurt by my unintentional insensitivity! Sometimes i really need to pull my head out of my...well, you know! One of my parents had a very "you might be hurt but i never meant to hurt you so it's your problem" attitude at times and it's something i can fall victim to myself, speaking loudly before thinking about how it will be taken by others. Especially ridiculous when you consider their advice following my second loss ("at least you know you can get pregnant") was so incredibly painful for me.

This also is gold:

There is an Arabic proverb that says something to the effect of: "Trust in Allah - but tie up your horse first"...

And it reminded me of my maternal grandmother. Nana was a very plain-speaking woman, and i can remember once her neighbour, who my nana sort of tolerated in that strained polite-but-hating-it-and-looking-down-her-nose kind of way that the previous generations did, dropped her lit cigarette into her own lap and when she saw the sparks begin to glimmer in her skirt fabric screamed "Jesus help me!" and my nana tossed her cup of lukewarm tea onto her lap and said grimly "Jesus helps those that help themselves!".

I'm glad you responded quickly, even if i was upset because haste made you sharper than you intended, because imagine all those women who emailed or PM'd you hurting and hurting and feeling there was no-one in their corner. I'd rather have a cry that them cry, because my words hurt them, however unintentional it was, those SHOULD be my tears, not theirs. To all those women i hurt, i'm so sorry my thoughtlessness caused you pain, especially at this time of year. We all respond to the pain of loss differently but whatever i decided to do with it, i have felt that pain and i should know better than to post thoughtlessly as i did.

That poor woman you spoke of. I can't imagine what she must be going through. And i can definitely see how that would have hastened your reaction to my unthinking idiocy. I agree completely that one can think someone has DONE wrong without them BEING wrong across the board, and i actually find more value in talking to those who feel differently to me. It's comforting to find support and challenging to find opposition but what value has the unquestioned belief?

Thank you Deb, for this, and for my love and hugs. I'm sending you a fresh-baked batch right back. I am so so glad i wrote to you. Of COURSE i value you. Part of my devastation was that i'd hurt someone i didn't know well but respected so hugely.

It's Christmas Eve as i write this, and i'm about to tuck DD up and tell her one last time about how santa will come and fill her tights (don't ask - couldn't get a stocking!) with presents. You're all about to get up and begin your Christmas Days. Merry Christmas Deb, I hope santa stuffed your tights FULL.

Love

Bx