Ultrasound. Are women so out of touch?

[Tanya]

Amber, I had some trouble feeling comfortable with pregnancy this time around esp since my previous pregnancy ended early because my baby died and I was not aware it had happened. So I don't believe that I am so in tune with my body that I know if something is wrong (I wouldn't have had any scans if that were the case). I am simply questioning the reasons for the medical profession to disregard a woman's LMP date and replace it with their own because these dates "can be so wrong". I just think it's a shame that women are questioned and not believed when they protest to know when they are or will be 40 weeks.

[Willow]

I've never had that experience Tanya and I agree it sounds like rubbish. Unfortunately all of the early scans I've had have been due to bleeding and a fear of m/c - especially after we lost our second babe at 12weeks. If not for those 'viability' scans (hate that term) the only routine scans I've ever been told about is the NT scan (which has always been explained to me as being optional) and then the morphology scan at 18-20 weeks.

With my last pregnancy, we did do a dating scan because we had absolutely no idea when the pregnancy had occurred. I was b'feeding, only had one period and thought I was infertile so wasn't paying much attention to my cycle.

[Arcadia]

I am beginning to question ultrasounds entirely. They are expensive, time consuming, and for me, didn't tell me anything I didn't know. They used to be unsual, not the norm.

The dating scan irks me when you know your LMP...I cant help feeling its to ensure they have a record of 'their' dates so they can induce you when they decide baby's ready

[maz]

. So I don't believe that I am so in tune with my body that I know if something is wrong.

wonder if he was the same idiot that told me Tank was a girl 3 times in a row....and told me that nothing was wrong with my baby at the last u/s at 37weeks when I knew there was then proceeded to tell me my pink bundle was infact a blue one and then argued with me that he had told me all along it was a boy. He couldnt even tell me that the umbilical cord was wrapped around Tanks neck 3 times and that the blood flow had detiriated!! I knew something was wrong...my body was telling me with the way I was swelling and my heart rate was through the roof..but no I was just being an over reactive pg woman grrrr dont get me started!!

the tool's dont realise how much mental stress they put on mum's to be either with the continuous u/s'. The stress leading up to it that everything will be alright, the stress if something is slightly wrong..the stress when THEY ARE WRONG!!!!

[jackrose]

I am simply questioning the reasons for the medical profession to disregard a woman's LMP date and replace it with their own because these dates "can be so wrong". I just think it's a shame that women are questioned and not believed when they protest to know when they are or will be 40 weeks.

I had a similar experience to you Tanya and I was left feeling just as frustrated and quite disillusioned with the 'system'.

I had been trying to get pg for a bit and had a very firm handle on my dates. I knew exactly when I became pg, and I knew I had a longer than usual luteal phase which would affect the dates.

I told the technician this at my scan and he dismissed my dates, saying the longer luteal phase doesn't matter and my dates are most likely inaccurate . Sure enough, his scan came up with a date 10 days out from mine... (At a time I couldn't have possibly become pg based on our BDing!)

(BTW My personal calculations for my first pg were spot on too)

It was so infuriating to be dismissed in such a manner when machines cannot possibly be calibrated to take into consideration different people's variations. They can only give an estimate by their very nature!

A person who works in the industry told me that the ultrasound software has a number of different figures it can use depending on the person they are scanning, ie data based on different cultures so that if an Asian woman is being scanned, they can use data from her race rather than using the data from an African race. He said that most people don't even know how to change this variable so the same tends to get used for everyone.

But, it is the delivery of the opinion which is most offensive. To just dismiss women when they tell what is going on in their body is not cool.

I was so relieved when I had an appointment with my IM and we discussed dates, I told her about my dates and she accepted without question. When I mentioned my longer luteal phase she said "Oh, well that makes a difference" and adjusted the date accordingly. I feel very satisfied!! (My ticker reflects my dates not the ultrasound!!)

One other last offence, during my 20 week scan, I asked if the technician could tell me where the placenta was. He completely fobbed me off and said, "Oh, don't worry about that, there are a lot worse things that can happen than having an anterior palcenta" When I explained that I realised that, but I needed to know as I was having a VBAC so it was important for me to know whether there was a risk it was around the scar area he decided it was ok to look for that and let me know Then later in the scan decided to question me on the safety of a VBAC!!!! "So your doctor is happy about you having a VBAC? Interesting"

I just ignored him.

How dare he make a comment! I am sure I am more up to date on the reading and research regarding VBAC than he!

Sorry to hijack a bit there Tanya, I just feel your frustration at the disempowerment (is that a word!?!) of women by the medicalisation of birth!

[Visitor8]

wow I haven't ever had a bad experience!

Even this time, I was measuring small for my dates I gave but they went with my dates not the scan

[westy]

I have always had all the routine scans (dating,NT scan and 20 week scan) .....this pregnancy however i have had alot of extra scans but they were due to issues with the cord.

[Eenee]

gosh this annoys me when "medical professionals" treat people like this, FFS we have choices and reasons for our choices and we shouldn't be talked to in that manner. And in a way it makes you feel stupid when they question you like this. Tanya sorry that you had to go through that and be treated that way.

[Glamourcide]

Wow, your hospital's awesome! I mean, the bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired, but I think it's great that they are using the technology they have to help mothers if they choose to take advantage of it - my local hospital will only give two scans, and they would rather only do the 20-week scan but to know when an expectant mum is at 20 weeks they need to have already done a dating scan - they'd skip that first one entirely if they could get away with it. I had to ring the hospital no less than FOUR times to get a dating scan with DD2, and I was outright refused the opportunity to have an NT scan ('you're too young, it's a waste of resources' they told me repeatedly), and a good friend of mine told me the other day that the new managing director of the hospital has disallowed u/s techs from revealing the baby's gender to parents at the 20-week scan - apparently s/he is afraid parents will try to terminate if it's not the gender they want?! Umm, yeah, because a TOP at 20-odd weeks is SO easy to access, especially for such a frivolous reason, what a douche.

But yeah, even when I had threatened miscarriages, bleeding, pain, lack of movement towards the end of pg etc etc, I was denied ultrasounds every time, told it was a waste of resources, if I was losing my baby an ultrasound wasn't going to fix it so why bother? I wasn't trying to abuse the system (although I jump at any chance I'm given to look at my baby and make sure everything's okay in there), I just wanted to be able to use the equipment my tax dollars are paying for, when I had good reason to use it!

Yes, your doctor was a bit of a twat in the way he spoke to you about not wanting more scans than you deem necessary, I don't agree with his manner at all. But I think it is great that you are at least offered the chance to have more scans than my local hospital deems 'necessary'.

[LimeSlice]

Perhaps it is because so many women DON'T know their bodies, DON'T know their cycles, and have no idea when they ovulate - and believe theat everyone has 28 day cycles.
So yeah, your LMP date can be out by quite aways.

I'm not sure I am seeing your issue - you know when you are due and you didn't have a dating scan which is the 'norm' and is generally considered to be the most accurate scan in terms of deterining age.

Also, as mentioned above, most women have it to ensure a viable prenancy and to see their babies - and there is nothing worng with that.
If you know your dates, why does it matter what someone who is trained to deal with the lowest common denominator think? Smile, nod, answer his questions and be on your way, knowing you are one of a select froup of women who have an understanding of their own bodies.

[*Beema*]

I was hoping to only have the NT and Morphology scans this pregnancy, but due to a raft of complications, large bright red bleeds, discovery that I was losing a twin, concerns with my cervix length..... I had 5 scans by the time I was ten weeks not what I wanted, but it is how it ended up going.

What upset me more was the second scan I had at the WCH, the Sonographer was rude as he didn't believe me that there was a second sac, that had ruptured (it had ruptured the night before, and he was doing an external US, and it was clearly visibly on the internal scans I had prior to after and about a week further on it was visible more on the external and the partial sac was still present just over 1 week ago. It is horrible when they question your knowledge, it is your body and you know what you have been going through. He had to get his boss to be present for the internal scan and, she had a quick look, said I wouldn't make it to full term and walked out the door again... she didn't fill me with any form of confidence at all

Unfortunately I will be having quite a few more scans, to monitor my cerivix length, growth scans on bub as we have had a reduciton in growth and checking all the bleeds and clotting that is left, although it was breaking down and hopefully it will be reabsorbed. This isn't what I would prefer, but my OB is keeping a close eye on everything to try to prolong the pregnancy as long as possible. And for that reason alone for me and for this pregnancy I am happy to do what we have to do....

With our first pregnancy we did chose to get a 3D scan done at 29 weeks, but we aren't planning to do it this time.

It was very rude how you were treated and it was your decision to chose what scans you wanted, not for them to dictate, I lvoe how your dates were almost identical to the scan, a bit of a nah nah nah nah nah

[Smoke Jaguar]

Exactly, Trill - even when you think you're in tune with yourself, ther's someone with a framed certificate saying you couldn't possibly be. My MW changed the EDD when I 'went over' because I told her when implantation occurred. Had I told a GP how I knew they would have insisted I go by something more 'reliable' like LMP (which was proving UNreliable!) or a scan. It was very reassuring to have this discussion with my MW and to then have my baby about 2 days after the 'new' EDD
We HAVE, in general, lost how to intuit our bodies because of the prevailing culture of consultation, specialists and scanning. So, my answer to the OP question is 'yes, women are out of touch with themselves a lot of the time, for various reasons and now we just take it for granted that this is the case and distrust women who are taking it back'. Medicare rebates for health professionals are the sweeter for it, too.
ETA: My comments are separate from the women who are curious to see their babies again. I know women who just wouldn't have a clue about their cycles, and absolutely clueless about what's going on with their bodies - it's not so much an indictment on them, personally, but on our culture.

[Mad Scientist]

There comes a point where we have to accept that all our decisions will not find approval with every other human being. It doesn't feel nice when we bear the brunt of this disapproval but we need to be strong in our decision and know that what we are doing is right. In the end, it really is the mother's choice as to whether they have numerous scans or not. For whatever reasons. Just like it is their choice to be having a baby. Sure there are some people who may not be in tune with their bodies, but so what? I think we are lucky to have the option of a dating scan. I chose to just let my body work and not worry about when I was ovulating etc. I did know when my AF was supposed to be due and I knew that they were pretty regular, but I had no idea if that meant that I would give birth on a particular date. Babies come when they want anyway, regardless of whether your dates are right or not.
I'm sorry you weren't treated nicely by your sonographer. A lot of the time, they haven't received the right training in dealing with patients especially when it comes to the sensitive nature of pregnancy. I had fantastic experiences with most of my scans but that's because I paid a fair bit for private after bad experiences with the public system.
At the end of the day, it's wonderful news that everything was good with your scan. Best of luck for the rest of your pregnancy xx