"Privileged" Education

[krisp]

Following on from another thread regarding private v's public eductaion I thought I'd share a recent experience.

I recently attended a black tie function that is an annual event held by one of Australias top 10 private schools. I won't say which school other than it was here in Melbourne. We were invited as my husbands company is involved with the school.

I was seated next to a fellow I had never met. He was introduced to me as "this is xxxxxxxx and he is a Rhodes Scholar". My initial thought was OK, nothing more nothing less. Anyway, one of the first things this man said to me was "so, what school did you go to?" I was a little surprised, I left school 22 years ago so why is it relevant? I didn't of course say that I merely told him I went to a very small public school in Newcastle that he would not have heard of. I also asked him why he wanted to know. To my shock and horror he replied something along the lines of the school I attended would give him an idea of my socio-economic status!!! I couldn't believe it!! He was actually deciding if I was important enough financially to be bothered with.

I am the daughter of a steel worker, who's mother was a SAHM, I went to the local public primary and high school (as did my 2 sisters and brother). I consider myself to be articulate, well spoken, intellegent and quite an interesting person, I have travelled to many exotic and interesting places and I have post-grad tertiary education. But someone please tell me why the school I went to or the financial status of my parents has any bearing on me as an adult.

So, I am left pondering...

Does the school you went to matter?
Does private schooling afford you priviledges that would otherwise not be open to you?
Does it play a role in your future eg job selection, lifestyle choices etc?
Does it shape the person/adult you become?

[Persephone1]

Personally, I think your upbringing plays a more crucial role. My siblings and are are all publically-school educated, and I went to a small regional University to study Law. The only people who cared about which University I went to were the w@nkers who went to a sandstone University and base their judgements on that.

My DH and I have talked about this a lot. We believe, quite strongly, that we will choose a school for our children based on it's ability to foster well-rounded individuals. Whether that's private or public won't have much weight - because as we see it, the school is not responsible for raising our children, we are. We would like the school/s to share our values, but if they don't, or we find them lacking in a particular area, then it is for US to fill that gap.

Take, for example, religion. DH and I are not religious. We would like our children to learn about all sorts of religions, and don't want them to be preached at whilst they're at school. But if they are only taught one religion at school, then it is up to us to fill the gap by teaching them about other religions and faiths. DTMS?

FWIW, my friends are both privately and publically educated. But their good qualities, IMO, are more to do with their upbringing and life experience than which school they went to.

[Marlene]

because as we see it, the school is not responsible for raising our children, we are.

exactly!!!!!

[HotI]

I think it can depend on whether you take on the 'culture' of the school or not. If you attend an exclusive school, and take on an air of exclusion then this can affect the rest of your life. Different schools can open your eyes to different careers, lifestyles etc and give people the confidence to follow different pathways. Attending a private school may make it more challenging if someone wants to work at a music store or become a monk or something, where as kids who attend less priveleged public schools may face more challenged if they want to do law..

However, i do think the guy you spoke to was a bit of a twat if he is still hung up on what school you went to

[onthefly]

This happened to my DH when we were living overseas. Another kiwi struck up a conversation, found out they were from teh same city, then wanted to know what school he went to. DH was in his 30s for pete's sake! Maybe it was the highlight of this guy's life, I dunno.
Anyway, I don't think it's important. It does seem that some graduates of private schools seem to think it's important - maybe it's drilled into them at the school - but I really can't see how it could possibly matter.

[krisp]

However, i do think the guy you spoke to was a bit of a twat if he is still hung up on what school you went to

Kate07 - you are so right!

The introduction should have been... "This is xxxxxx and he is a twat!!"

[Bathsheba]

Hmmm, that fellow seems to verge on the mentally ill. I would not consider him typical of somebody who has attended a private/independent school. I've also been to many such functions and never encountered anyone like him at all! He actually sounds quite insecure.

I'm not sure how to answer your questions in the context of what that fellow said... incase it sounds like I support him... which i dont!

HOWEVER. The school you attend can influence your life in ways you have mentioned... for the positive, it's true. If I am to be honest I have to admit that I have heard things said by various people (outside of the education sector) that imply that students who attend private schools often are better placed to be interviewed for certain professional roles simply because they attended a private school. But I am talking about a narrow field of careers: banking/law/corporate sector. Specifically the argument is that students from these schools are GENERALLY more comfortable with all the business etiquette that is expected of them. I know I know.... not always the case... generally speaking. Plus they generally are less "daunted" by authority/power/money etc. Specific example: the bank my DH works for prefers their graduate bankers to have a private education history because they have found that these students more likely have the skills to talk to high net worth clients in a professional manner... and have, generally, a higher standard of grooming and speech patterns. I'm not saying this is right... but the attitude is out there... unwritten... but it exists.

Please don't shoot this messenger... only passing on what I have heard.

BUT at the end of the day not all kids actually WANT to be graduate bankers LOL so really, maybe it's all really irrelevant!

ETA: actually what IS drilled into them at most private schools (the ones that I have sent my daughter to and worked at) is that, as a student, you are damned fortunate to be there and not to take your situation for granted! To this ends students are expected to do alot more community work (eg in nursing homes) than most public schools I know of.

ETA: Rouge's post below also reminded me that my private banker DH attended a very vanilla flavoured country public school and it didn't stop him from entering the world I described above.

[Rouge]

I will never send my children to a certain school for notoriety. Never. They go to the school they do because I love it. It's private but it's definitely NOT prestigious. I've got enough friends who've taken that route and pulled their kids out or wished they had not due to finances but due to the mentality and the way it shaped their children. They and I can't stress enough that the education in most cases is more focused than others, but that isn't everything and sometimes that in itself is damaging.

I look at my husband and all the children in his family. They went to good catholic schools, not prestigious ones and they got where they are with brains and hard work and I am proud of that way more than I would be if it was due to name dropping *shakes head*

[Miss.September]

Oh my goodness, I can't believe he said that to you!

I went to public primary and public secondary schools. I had friends leave the secondary school - one to go to another public school with different subject choices on offer, one to go private because she also wanted different subjects but she believed it would look better on her resume. Wonder if it did in the end?

For me, I think that different subjects would have made the difference. We had from one extreme to the other - from high maths and science classes, to literature and computer classes. If you wanted a decent score to get into uni (which I did), you had to do the tough subjects, there was no other choice. So I did the tough ones and failed dismally. So I decided to give up on wanting to go to uni, and found a TAFE course I really liked and did that instead. But a bad teacher at TAFE made me not pursue where I wanted to be.

Soooo, overall, if my subject choice had have been broader, I would have probably gotten into uni and then become a publishing editor like I wanted to.

Does the school you went to matter? Not anymore.
Does private schooling afford you priviledges that would otherwise not be open to you? I think it would have at the time.
Does it play a role in your future eg job selection, lifestyle choices etc? My public schooling left me with limited choices as far as tertiary education did.
Does it shape the person/adult you become? It made me acknowledge what I wasn't good at and made me comfortable with that. I learned that I am probably the best judge of what I am capable of and that teachers are just people too who aren't necessarily the "experts" on life. (I say this too because my private-school DH was told that he'd never amount to anything, he was hopeless at everything and he'd never be his dream of an electrician. PFFT to that teacher!!!!!! He's been an electrician for 12 years now and runs his own business SO THERE!! - Okay, I'll grow up now...)

[Amity]

Ok this is my personal belief. Shoot me if you want. My parents are both teachers, and brought up four of us on those wages. My Mum was a SAHM for 13 years during our childhood. I was awarded a full scholarship to my private secondary school. My brother was awarded a half scholarship. My younger siblings were full-fee paying students. My parents didn't finish paying off their education until my youngest sibling was well into her 20s. We didn't have overseas holidays. Our holidays were visiting friends and family interstate, via car. My children have already had more plane trips than I had before I turned 25.

I also think it depends on where you live. Sydney and Melbourne "care" more about private school education than Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane.

So here's my personal opinion:

Does the school you went to matter?
Primary school? No. Secondary school? Yes.

Does private schooling afford you privileges that would otherwise not be open to you?
Yes. I got my first job because of the school I went to. One of the main questions in my field, when I was applying for employment post-degree was "what school did you go to". I know some of the big law firms will only consider applicants from private schools in their "weeding out applicants" phase - I know this because I helped out with the "weeding out".

Does it play a role in your future eg job selection, lifestyle choices etc?

From my friendship group at high school we have: 2x nurses, teacher, psychologist, architect, barrister, banker, research scientist, brothel manager. I don't think my private school education made me who I am today, but it certainly helped in my secondary education to achieve such a high mark for university. We were taught differently from my friends at the local (very prestigious) state high school. We were taught in a way which helped us understand the questions for the exams - and our teachers were always available for questions. I think it also makes a difference when you know your parents are paying godzillion dollars for your education - you appreciate the education more. The students who are negative influences, who "don't want to be at school" are soon gone, and those who appreciate what their parents are sacrificing for them stay.

Does it shape the person/adult you become?
It's not the sole influence, but I do believe it has some influence. My school celebrated its centenary whilst I was in attendance, and this made me appreciate those who have previously been at the school. I am very proud to be an Old Collegian.

My children attend the local Primary school which is fabulous. However, I am in an upper-middle-class area and the school itself is the best in the district. I will, however, be sending them to private for secondary school. Not because I don't like the state secondary school, in fact it is academically very good. I just appreciate and value the private education I had, and wish my children to have the same opportunities that I did. Academically, socially and economically.

[Bathsheba]

Interesting post Divvy. DH has also participated in the "weeding out" process you describe... he actually wanted to hire a public schooled graduate at first... until he realised that... well, it wasn't going to work in THIS situation. However I'm sure that there are many situations where a public education might serve a child better... everything depends on the child... and yes, the parenting. There is no perfect school... only perfect MATCHES between school and child.

[Jas]

Well my only comment is the school this guy went to seem to have a negative effect on him, what a pig!

[Phteven]

My goodness, is there anything sadder than a middle aged man who hasn't lived enough to stop defining himself by the school he went to.

Have you ever read Freakonomics? They have written a number of essays about school choice and they often have more about it in their blog (maybe because they're parents with school age children). More Evidence on the (Lack of) Impact of School Choice - NYTimes.com
Better Schools, or Better Teachers? - NYTimes.com

From a statistical point of view your children are more likely to have a tertiary qualification if you do regardless of which school you choose to send them to. They are more likely to succeed if you have lots of books in the house and if you join the P&C. Not because these things seep in by osmosis but because parents with lots of books who get involved in their children's school tend to care about their education.

Soooo IMO....

Does the school matter? Not as much as your parents.
Does private schooling afford you more privileges/opportunities? Not if you are lacking in parental support or have a low EQ. If money is tight after paying for private school bills it could deny you opportunities to participate in extra-curricular activities that you might be able to afford if you were at a public school.
Does it play a role in future? Probably. Is there any guarantee that that role will be positive? No.
Does it shape the person/adult you become? Hmmm you arrive at high school after 12 years of being shaped by your home and primary school. You spend 5 or 6 years there. 5 or 6 years in which you are at the mercy of massive hormonal/physical changes and then you leave. 5 or 6 years isn't much especially when one considers that by the time you arrive your attitude towards schooling and education has already been shaped by primary and pre school.

I went to a few schools, mainly very expensive elite ones. DH went to a school that was called the worst school in the state on the front page of the major daily. DH is personable, capable and earns oodles of money. I'm misanphropic, messy and anti-social. I'm very well educated but I suspect that if I looked for a job I wouldn't find one.

I'm no fan of private education because my parents spent a fortune on mine and what I gained from it was the ability to tie a tie whilst running, awesome lock-picking skillz and some great drug contacts. Private school kids have access to better drugs - there's no doubt about that.

[Emma09]

This is a great thread ladies- afm- my sisters and I were educated at the local public school. They have all gone on to university and in fact 3 sisters have at least 2 degrees. My parents never attended university, but always instilled in us that we could be whatever we wanted- career wise.
I will be sending DD to a local primary school and then onto whatever secondary school suits her, whether it be public or private.
I feel that each child will learn in whatever environment, if they are engaged. In VCE, it is more important to be at a school that offers the subjects that your child wishes/needs to study.
It is far more important to me that my DD is taught by teachers who engage her, which you can find at public and private schools. My sister is one of the most dedicated teachers you will find, she was headhunted by the most prestigious school in Melbourne, but turned it down to work in a public school.
Just my opinion

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[tattoo_mama]

I have only briefly scanned the PP's but I will say this: I went to *apparently* perths top girls private school, and I have ended up a young tattooed single mum, ex drug abuser and exotic dancer, so it obviously didn't rub off on me haha. But having said that, it has always helped me get jobs cause it looks good on my resume and I know how to 'turn on' my private school side (eloquent speech etc) when need be. I do have a strong sense of knowing when to be tactful and when to be assertive but I would say thats more ingrained in me by my mother (wouldn't you agree Amanda lol )

[Junglemum]

So very true Ali. I live in a place where education is a luxury. It's so sad to see kids as young as 5 or 6 working in the vegetable garden so the family can make a living. It only costs about $60 Australian dollies a year to send a kid to primary school. But that is beyond so many families.

A friend of mine has a daughter at uni. It costs her entire wage just to send her. The husbands wage is used for the two boys to go to high school and food. They are often without food. And the worst bit is they are considered lucky because they both have jobs?! Well unfortunately due to a big stuff up on the husbands part they have both just lost their jobs. So that is the end of the education for them. Just so unfair.

[helle]

The difference between the private and public schools here was that the students at the private schools could afford the best pot. Not that I ever bought any, just saying.

My dad left school at 14, and has built up and sold a few businesses in his time. He could quite possible retire now at 48, but he's a workaholic and will work til the day he dies. Your education is what you make it, I think.