I has a dilemma...

A friend of mine has a husband and 2 kids. They're on a tight budget already due to hubby not earning much - don't even get me started on that, it's through his choice not lack of capability. She tries so hard to keep them going well financially, but he spends all their money, to the point where she just doesn't eat sometimes. She makes sure there's always enough for the kids, but sometimes that means there's not enough for her.

Things she's tried -

*Sitting him down and showing him the incomings/outgoings to try and get him to understand - didn't work

*Taking away his access to the bank account so he can't spend it - he's memorized their credit card number (which is always maxed, coz as soon as she gets it down a bit he spends it again) and buys online. He also has access to a lot of cash in his job and uses it to buy stuff at the deli. The boss doesn't care as long as everythings back in the box by the end of the fortnight. Last fortnight she had to pay $200 to this box :o

*Giving him pocket money and saying once it's gone it's gone - also didn't work, refer above.

*Threatening divorce - didn't work, he doesn't believe it and she doesn't have the money to leave. She can't get money from Centrelink as he earns just over their threshhold, and she can't be separated but living with him because he won't sign the papers.

Somebody have any other ideas? Despite everything I've said above, if you were to take that out, he's actually not too bad. He doesn't do it deliberately, as a manipulative thing, it's more of a self esteem issue he has. If this one thing in their marriage could be resolved, I don't think she'd want to divorce him, but financial worries are the biggest relationshhip killer.

Please help!

She can report the credit card lost and get the bank to give her a new one with a different number.
Get his wages paid into her account and not give him access.

But those kind of measures are only treating the symptoms not the disease which is that he is too self-centered to step-up and take responsibility as a father and husband to ensure his families' financial health. Can she get a pastor or similar who her husband will respect to have a word with him about manning up?

Tough one.

Could she apply for a new credit card to transfer the balance. Make sure he doesn't know the new number or have access to the card (cut it up if she has to) and cancel the one he's memorised. Or alternatively, I know that the banks won't let you cancel a card until it's paid off but maybe she could get a freeze on it or something?

Could she talk to his boss to try to restrict the cash access?

Your poor friend. That's horrid.

Would a prefessional help? Would he be more likely to listen to them, than her? There are services who can pay your bills etc and put money in savings etc and give you pocket money. They take a percentage, but maybe that's better than the constant stress.

What about a reponsible adult he respects. I know my DH seems to notice when his own brother is being a cool Dad and seems to be a cooler Dad for a while too! It's not the same thing, but sometimes other people seem to be able to get through better than the 'other half'.

Goals? Do they have any? Or is it just too hard trying to get by? Maybe if he could save for a small goal - a thing he wants. Then a bigger thing, like a holiday etc. It's addictive, saving for treats.

Money can and will ruin relationships. It sounds like he doesn't respect her or the family unit very much, to put himself ahead of them.

How about drastic measures, like selling his car and replacing it with a bike, explaining to him that they can't afford the running costs of the car anymore etc.
I just feel like he needs to be shocked into understanding the situation. Because she manages to make it work, he thinks they are fine. He needs to go hungry.
I know, so much easier said than done. It sounds so horrible. I really feel for your friend, I hope he snaps out of his self absorbed money wasting attitude.

Sounds like an awful situation for your friend. I'm pretty sure that some local councils or community centres run education courses on budgeting and managing finances, could she enroll him in something like that? I'm not sure of the situation, but by the sounds of things it seems like a problem with understanding (and he's not alone, financial literacy is a huge problem in Australia) rather than a low care factor iykwim.

I think that if it's to do with self-esteem that a Psych or someone of the like may work.
I have a very close friend who just spends and spends to make herself feel better. It has got them into a lot of trouble before. She goes to see a Psych who helps her deal with her issues and she does have blowouts every now and then but most of the time she is in control.

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She can report the credit card lost and get the bank to give her a new one with a different number.
Get his wages paid into her account and not give him access.

But those kind of measures are only treating the symptoms not the disease which is that he is too self-centered to step-up and take responsibility as a father and husband to ensure his families' financial health. Can she get a pastor or similar who her husband will respect to have a word with him about manning up?

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Agree with all of Onyx's suggestions.

Could she wait until the end of the fortnight and withhold the money needed to pay the box at work back? Perhaps the wrath of his boss PLUS the hit to his manly pride might knock a bit of sense into him. Plus, really, $200 at the deli??? In a fortnight?? Are you sure he doesn't have a food/gambling/alcohol/hooker addiction as well?

I would also consider letting the phone and internet bills go unpaid, get herself a secret pre-paid mobile for use in emergencies - then he won't be able to buy stuff online??

Like Onyx points out, there is an underlying problem here. You can't say "the marriage is good except for ..." because this problem by very definition is about a fundamental lack of respect for her needs, her personal power, her personal boundaries. She is going without food...this isn't just disrespect, it's ABUSIVE.

My sister had a similar issue with her husband, she hung in there for the sake of the relationship, sacrificed good years of her life throwing everything she had to keep them barely afloat, used ever clever strategy in the book, but in the end, he didn't change and didn't want to change. In the end she left with nothing but his debt, but realised the longer she stayed, the bigger the debt would be that she had to walk away with. A year or two on she's doing really well for herself, in all areas of her life as well as financially.

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She can report the credit card lost and get the bank to give her a new one with a different number.
Get his wages paid into her account and not give him access.

But those kind of measures are only treating the symptoms not the disease which is that he is too self-centered to step-up and take responsibility as a father and husband to ensure his families' financial health. Can she get a pastor or similar who her husband will respect to have a word with him about manning up?

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Oh, I didn't know she could do that, that's a great idea about changing the card number!

His sister is the only person he listens to, and she's spoken to him a few times about this. He's good for a few days, maybe a week, but then he slides again in a big way. For instance, he works for a family company, he's the only employee. The boss was going away over christmas, and gave him 3 or 4 weeks pay upfront. That combined with the Chidlcare rebate they got back meant they had a bit over $3k in their account, which looked good but of course was all accounted for, they'd just gotten it all in one lump sum. So he went out and spent $600 on stuff for his ute that's been off the road for 3 years, didn't even spend it on the car they use.

I've tried being diplomatic with him before, and once I even lost it at him and told him he needed to man up or he was gonna lose everything. He used to earn $100k pa on the mines, but he refuses to go back because he doesn't wanna be away from his kids. Fair enough, but I told him he was risking screwing his kids up for life by raising them to not respect their mother and unable to care for their own finances. He really annoys the heck outta me, I wanna shake him! There's a perfect scripture for it, but he's not a JW, and wouldn't listen :wall:

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Could she talk to his boss to try to restrict the cash access?

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I'm sure she could try, I'll suggest it to her :)

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Would a prefessional help? Would he be more likely to listen to them, than her? There are services who can pay your bills etc and put money in savings etc and give you pocket money. They take a percentage, but maybe that's better than the constant stress.

Goals? Do they have any? Or is it just too hard trying to get by? Maybe if he could save for a small goal - a thing he wants. Then a bigger thing, like a holiday etc. It's addictive, saving for treats.

Money can and will ruin relationships. It sounds like he doesn't respect her or the family unit very much, to put himself ahead of them.

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She approached a certain foxy financial company, and they told her she wasn't in enough debt for them to help. This was around when her first bub was born - I told her to get her credit card and extend the limit while they could, and buy everything she needed and wanted for bub, and then they'd actually be better off because of the help they'd receive. But she couldn't bring herself to do it - not that it was a fabulous idea to begin with!

Yeah, he's going away in September for a fishing trip. I told her to make him his own bank account and tell him to save his own money, but I really think she's given up on it. I wouldn't be surprised if she took that opportunity to change the locks or something.

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How about drastic measures, like selling his car and replacing it with a bike, explaining to him that they can't afford the running costs of the car anymore etc.
I just feel like he needs to be shocked into understanding the situation. Because she manages to make it work, he thinks they are fine. He needs to go hungry.
I know, so much easier said than done. It sounds so horrible. I really feel for your friend, I hope he snaps out of his self absorbed money wasting attitude.

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Yup, I've told her that. If they don't have enough money to eat, it shouldn't be just her that's not eating. But she doesn't do it, I think in some ways she'd rather martyr herself than stand up to him in that way :wall:

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I think that if it's to do with self-esteem that a Psych or someone of the like may work.
I have a very close friend who just spends and spends to make herself feel better. It has got them into a lot of trouble before. She goes to see a Psych who helps her deal with her issues and she does have blowouts every now and then but most of the time she is in control.

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That goes back to his sister, she's actually a counsellor. I'd love for them to speak to her on a regular basis, but as soon as it becomes a counselling thing rather than sisterly advice, he shuts off :wall:

He really annoys me, he can provide for his family but he CHOOSES not to. Growing up, my Dad was on a pension and in chronic pain, and yet he still supplemented our family income by being a school bus driver. I remember he would only miss work if he was in so much pain that he was crying - next to him, this guy just looks like nothing. I just don't understand it :wall:

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Agree with all of Onyx's suggestions.

Could she wait until the end of the fortnight and withhold the money needed to pay the box at work back? Perhaps the wrath of his boss PLUS the hit to his manly pride might knock a bit of sense into him. Plus, really, $200 at the deli??? In a fortnight?? Are you sure he doesn't have a food/gambling/alcohol/hooker addiction as well?

I would also consider letting the phone and internet bills go unpaid, get herself a secret pre-paid mobile for use in emergencies - then he won't be able to buy stuff online??

Like Onyx points out, there is an underlying problem here. You can't say "the marriage is good except for ..." because this problem by very definition is about a fundamental lack of respect for her needs, her personal power, her personal boundaries. She is going without food...this isn't just disrespect, it's ABUSIVE.

My sister had a similar issue with her husband, she hung in there for the sake of the relationship, sacrificed good years of her life throwing everything she had to keep them barely afloat, used ever clever strategy in the book, but in the end, he didn't change and didn't want to change. In the end she left with nothing but his debt, but realised the longer she stayed, the bigger the debt would be that she had to walk away with. A year or two on she's doing really well for herself, in all areas of her life as well as financially.

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You're so right Marydean. What I mean to say is that he is not a deliberately abusive person, and he does take a lot of crap from her as well. But I wonder how much crap she'd give him if this wasn't such an issue? Perhaps things would be more balanced for her. That's interesting what you suggested about him having an addiction, while it would surprise me, it is ringing alarm bells isn't it. DH and I were on the poverty line for our first couple of years, and we've tried to help them as much as possible, to the point where I've taken her shopping a few times and told her to load up the trolley and I've paid for it. But we've got where we are through going without a lot and learning new budgeting skills - he just doesn't have the desire. He's still living like a miner on a tradies wage :shakehead:

She may have given up on herself and her situation. I know you will be a friend and stand up strong and be there when she needs it. It sounds like it might be happening sooner rather than later.

I had a friend in a similar circumstance (JW, btw). It got to the point that she was very close to divorce - talked to her pastor and everything.

Turns out her DH was depressed and has ADD. The spending is self-esteem related. It's a vicious circle - spend, feel guilty about it, get depressed, spend to make it feel better, etc.

Chronic spending is also common in people with bipolar.

The thing that fixed it was him getting a decent job, which improved his self-seteem. They sold all the big items he kept buying, like motorbikes, car etc, she took control of the budget and access to the cash. They moved to a cheaper area as well.

You've mentioned she's a martyr to this. She needs counselling herself, or she'll just end up behaving like a victim. Make sure you're not enabling her rather than supporting her. Rescuing people who want to be seen as a victim doesn't encourage them to pick themselves up and get on with things. Give her links to resources that will help but stop bailing them out.