Hi girls
Was wondering if aanyone read her book or used her? she's called the baby whisperer and has a book called Dream Baby Guide
TIA!
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Hi girls
Was wondering if aanyone read her book or used her? she's called the baby whisperer and has a book called Dream Baby Guide
TIA!
i believe its similar to the crap TH has put out...
I have it, but currently do not have time to work through 700page book lol...apparently she is good. I agree with her way of working out sleep issues, that fixing sleep is about what happens during the day not about the sleeping at night.
Yup same as TH and NOT categorised as gentle parenting - they say they have their 'differences' but they are much of a muchness if you ask me.
TH??
I personally can't say that I like her. She was on ummm Sunrise I think it was the other morning. She's very anti co-sleeping which I'd never realised until then! I was rather shocked. I p/t co-sleep and I have Elijah right next to me in our room and in fact Oskar only just moved himself out of our room into his own (new room and bed all in one go lol) about a month ago. He too p/t co-slept. He learnt to settle on his own as he got older and I believe as he got to be aware that he was not in fact alone. ... anyway, sorry gone off on a tangent, but yeah, personally not for me.
Tizzy Hall...evil "make baby scream to sleep" trainer
this is my personal opinion not the opininon of the BB ;)
Ooooh, I looked her up on the advice of an aquaintance when Jazz was in her wake every two hour stage. I havent read her book but her method its a bit... odd ... to me.
I wasn't heartbroken by it, not like TH methods. But some of it just seemed really OTT. Theres a LOT of information to wade. It seemed to me like she knows parents think the more information you give them, the better the advice IYKWIM.
In all honesty, her plans seem to be a lot like the NCSS, except with crying (although she does claim to not be an advocate for traditional CIO methods, she does something she call 'listening to cries' and responsding 'accordingly' which is probably just a form of CIO, depending on how YOU respond), and uses bigger words which I think if the website is anything to go by, would make the book more like a uni textbook than a book for sleep-deprived parents.
I think, if you're looking for something like this, that goes through 'wind down' time, and environment, and cues etc, I'd recommend the NCSS. Its easier to understand, and writen/devised by someone who is a mum. I also emailed Elizabeth Pantley, a few times, and have gotten some amazing feedback on when things weren't working.
thanks girls..
i tried to look up info on her but nothing says she's got kids etc. so was a little suss. think i might pass!
p.s. what's NCSS?
thanks again girls
No cry sleep solution.
Good luck
Ps. I found the best thing for us was to work with the advice for a little while (in our case contented little baby book) until you figure out what works for you. Routine was key for us, but we figured out where we could be flexible and never followed her advice for solids, for example.
You don't need to take their word as gospel (especially if they don't even have kids - that would set off alarm bells for me too), but some of it can be helpful if you don't know where or how to start.
HTH
Thanks... oh and I am of the same opinion. Don't get me started on making a poor little baby scream themselves to sleep, breaks my heart :(:
Hi, just stumbled across this conversation.
4 Yrs ago Sheyne stayed with us. Our 11 month old went from no day sleeps and crazy interupted sleeps to sleeping 11-12 hrs at night and 2-3 hr day sleep, big change in 1 day with minimal tears. (very different to sleep schools!) I purchased her book this year as my 6 month old was up to similar tricks. In fact I was having to feed her every 40 mins thru night. First night on new routine she slept the full night.
Yes the book is daunting but i think that is because you cant fix these probs fully without the full info. these things take effort, Also Sheyne is not a mother. Nor is my midwife but she was excellent. In fact I dont believe my physio has ever sprained her ankle but she fixed mine ok. Also she doesn't mind co sleeping if it is working for you.
in my opinion Sheyne is the best (if not the only) person that offers a sensitive and comprehensive solution for babies with real sleep issues and she is the real deal. Hope this helps those with difficult sleepers out there. Good luck!!
thanks bec.
tho it is my personal preference to go for someone who's a mother themselves..
Bec, TBH it would be very very rare that a routine could be changed in ONE night.
Errrr I have to strongly disagree with this. Babies don't actually NEED a routine or plan - babies have needs and many 'solutions' out there shape them to suit our lifestyle and make them convenient. There are many tips and different things we can try which can be very successful and very gentle.:
Yes sometimes mothers and families get sleep deprived and tired and desperately need help. But there is no community, no wisdom being passed on, no extra hands... and the wisdom that is out there and available are in the form of some great books and parenting experts (who are parents themselves and know the emotion and hormones involved with that mother baby connection, like what it feels like when your heart breaks in two to hear your baby cry) who teach us that we are the experts, and most of us have normal babies, not babies with a problem. It's identifying those books and telling others about them against the big marketing dollars of other books. How is that the real deal?
yes, i was going to add that too, im not sure a bub/toddler could sleep through the night after just one night of 'help':
we were in Tresillian for a week and only 2 out of the 5 kids sleep through the night, well most nights.
Yeah, but the thing is an ankle is an ankle, pretty much always the same, so I'm sure it's possible to learn to fix one without actually spraining your own. Children are unique, individual human beings (as are their parents) so the idea you can apply a one-size-fits-all approach to parenting doesn't really sense. Someone who's had children (and particularly someone who's had several) will know this.:
Bec, have other mums you know have had the same success with her?
Hi Prama,
I have known at least 2 other mum's who have had Shayne in their homes and they did nothing but benefit from her. I have also bought her new book. Whilst not reading it from cover to cover as it is rather thick, I looked for the sections that were appropriate to our issues and it made a whole lot of sense to me and my DH. We used some of her techniques when DD was not settling to sleep easily, and within 5 days there was a massive turn around. Sometimes you just need a little helpful guidance or a new idea and her's have truly worked for us. ;)
I have to 2nd the positive praise for Sheyne! I think her philosopy is gold. My DD is now 17mo and a different child because of her advice. I can't praise her holistic approach highly enough. I realise all babies/ toddlers are different but her ideas are logical and sensible and I believe would apply to most children.
I must have read near 50 books on sleeping and her philosphy is the only holistic approach i.e. tackles sleep in relation to the rest of a child's day - eating, behaviour etc I bought the 'No Cry' books and the 'Save Our Sleep' (more routine focused books). To be honest, I got jack of the no cry/ gentle stuff. It just didn't work for my LO. A more structured approach was key. I don't believe in CC (as does Sheyne). Rather I believe in really listening to a baby's cries and interpreting them correctly. I know when my LO is crying out of the desire to have company or because she's over-tired versus when she's sick or has a genuine emotional need. Because she doesn't wake very often I know that when she does, it's out of a genunine need. Sheyne's philosophy helped me grasp this with confidence. I now get the sleep I need to be a better mum to my DD. My DD is also a healthier, happier child.
In the end we're all going to disagree, but I can only say what worked for me and I have no hesitations recommending her book to anyone. She is the reason I'm now pregnant with number 2...I thought my DD was going to be an only child!
Hi Prama,
To answer your question, Sheyne has a 99 percent success rate for her personal visits. Obviously reading the book is very different to having her there. As far as babys needing routines, well I agree each baby is different and some just go with the flow and some don't (mine unfortunatley). All I can say is my kids have been so much happier after being on the routines. Some of the previous comments have made it sound like I wanted the routines so i could go out clubbing or something (errr) but was searching for someone with answers, and for me and lots of others she was the only one that worked. I'm certainly not saying that it is the only solution but people often come to Sheyne after they have tried everything else. And yes it is common with Sheynes method for babies to sleep thru first night. i've been to sleep school and certainly not the case there (i'm still racked with guilt after going there I can assure you).
Just thought it might help someont to know she helped me. You can contact sheyne on her web site but if you are stuggling then let her know as she does prioritise.
Again, hope this helps. please, no judgments for trying to do the best for my family.
As a mother to a 10 month old DD with serious sleep issues and a physio I have to put my 2 cents in!!!
We call this book the bible at Mum's group, it really helped our family get on track. I don't have to follow the routines religiously now, I am more able to allow DD to find her own groove, but when she gets lost or overstimulated and tired I am able to use the same reliable winding down technique to give her the sleep she needs.
Other books and techniques I've tried (and I've tried them all!!!!!:rolleyes:) left me physically ill. But this book makes you role play for a week first and work on communicating with your baby so that when it comes time for "sleep training" it's not such a shock to bub. Honestly, there was MUCH less crying for us using this method than with attachment parenting, CIO, NCSS, babywise or tresilian(3 times). I never wanted DD to sleep I just wanted her to be happy when she was awake, for everyone's sake!
DD develops very strong sleep associations and would wake every 20 minutes if I rocked, fed etc to sleep. It got to the point that even she had worked it out and work scream and push me away when she woke. But on the other end of the spectrum she would not cry to sleep and it broke my heart trying:cry::cry::cry:
Sheyne's main message is don't fix what's not broken, so you don't have to use a routine unless you need to. She is also pushing the balance in the day affecting night, and this really rings true with us, if DD doesn't eat well (solids and BM) she doesn't sleep well and if she doesn't sleep well she doesn't eat well etc etc etc.
Yes, every baby is different, but actually so is every ankle. Each ankle has a different mechanism of injury, different capacity, endurance, needs to do different things (ie granny vs elite athlete).The difference is a baby is dynamic and ever changing and growing. At least this book recognises that.
I don't claim to be the best physio because I've sprained my ankle (and physio didn't work, I needed a recon) and I also don't claim to be the best mother just because I've had one baby! My point here is sometimes you need to refer on in order to get the best outcome. If you do your research (as you are now!) you'll prob find Sheyne has spent a lot of time with a lot of different bubs, and that's good enough for me. I was at the point where I would try anything and I'm so glad I did.
I find this technique doesn't lock us into a set routine for age scenario, as DD needs much less sleep than your average bub. It certainly hasn't got us sleeping through. But, that wasn't what we were looking for. All I wanted was a happy baby and that's what this method achieved for us. I'm not saying it will for you... But maybe if you've tried everything else and nothing has worked it's worth a shot if it makes your family happier all around?
In a nut shell I'm sold and it was much gentler than ANY other advice, book, method I have tried. Geez I should ask for some sort of commission for this promo!!! I am passionate because it changed my life big time and turned 2 screaming messes (me and DD) into happy laughing silly happy people.
Also, is it necessary to crucify one another on our opinions. I would assume most people asking questions on here are looking for help from people in similar situations. Shouldn't we be able to respect other people's opinions and support those looking for help? I thought that was the point? After all we're all struggling blindly through motherhood, where's the comeraderie?
Preparing self for onslaught of abuse now!
I had to say..."well said Lily's mum"! Very happy for you that you found something that worked.
I had forgotten all the stuff on communication. Sheyne is very big on this. And it does honestly make a difference. Just yesterday I left DD with HB without saying goodbye and she cried and cried. If I'm honest with her and say goodbye it's not nearly as dramatic. This is just one example of what Sheyne recommends with communication. It's now 2nd nature in our house (most of the time!) but it took a while to get there.
Anyway...all the best everyone. In the end we're all going to parent the way that works for us...I've learnt not to whinge about something unless I'm prepared to take on other people's suggestions and try...so if you're happy with the way things are, like Lily's mum said, why fix what's not broken? But for those looking for change...Sheyne really made a difference in our house :-)
Hi guys,
Just reading through this thread, and I felt compelled to toss my hat in the ring in support of Sheyne Rowley's Dream Baby Guide.
I tried seven different sleep schools/ systems in my 14 month odyssey to get my daughter sleeping, including Ngala, which is the WA government-endorsed mothercraft centre (where they seem to advocate only for crying it out, except they tell you that's not what it's called- sticking my screaming baby in a cot in a strange place and walking out for three hours sounds pretty much like crying it out to me).
Anyway! My daughter was until a fortnight ago breastfeeding eight times a night, and still co-sleeping, though I was keen to transition her to her own cot. I've gone back to work in the last couple of months and I was dying from exhaustion- we just couldn't keep going like we were. I found the Dream Baby Guide after a friend of my mother's reported magical one-day results, and after I read through Sheyne's (very extensive) discussion of her philopsophy on her website, I decided that her approach fitted well with me. It's all about teaching your child to accept your guidance, and showing them what you expect of them before you even put them in the cot by doing role playing with a teddy/ having fun play sessions to show them the cot is a safe place/ etc.
We've spent a good couple of months putting into place the daily behavioural changes- particularly around eating and nappy changes, where we were having lots of trouble- because we didn't want to rush things. And a fortnight ago, my husband put my daughter down in her cot for the first time in eight months plus, patted her tummy (not part of the Rowley routine, but we could live with the addition since before then she'd almost never gone to sleep without breastfeeding), and she went to sleep without crying *once*, and slept straight through the night.
Honestly, I couldn't believe it. But it's exactly 11 nights later, and she's asleep in her cot right now (as every night since the first one) after putting herself out without the tummy pats. She's also been having a 2 hour nap in her cot during the day, which I couldn't even imagine before now.
Anyway! I think the other parts of the Dream Baby Guide (eating/ nappy changes etc) actually helped us more directly than the sleep part- but the whole philosophy is sound. If you teach your child what you expect, there might still be tears, but they'll only be of protest instead of real sadness.
I recently wrote a detailed blog post about all the sleep solutions we tried, and what finally worked for us. If you're interested, you can find it here.
Wow Claire! What a fantastic story and testimony to the work of Sheyne :) I quickly read your blog...great tips and it seems we've read alot of the same material. I think you nail it when you talk about RESPECT through COMMUNICATION. That's where I found Sheyne's material different from all the other 'sleep solutions'. Not to say that the other books don't have good things to say. They just don't provide as broad a picture as Dream Baby Guide.
Interpreting cries is another aspect I like about Sheyne. She doesn't say 'your baby won't cry if you try my method'. In fact, she says the opposite. There will always be crying when you're implementing something new. Humans don't naturally like change, particularly toddlers! But the key is knowing what type of cry - is it a protest or a genuine emotional need? At 19mo if my DD cries it's 90% a protest rather than genuine emotion. I found this hard to work out in the early days but Sheyne encourages stopping, listening and working this out for your bub.
Anyway, thanks for your post and all the best for the future.
Happy to say that one month after Sophie started sleeping through the night in her own cot, she's still doing it every single night. We've had maybe two or three nights in the last month where she's woken up once, and on those she's gone straight back to sleep with just a quick back pat and her verbal cues.
We've only had one night where it all went wrong and she went to sleep at 7:30, woke up three times before 10:30, and ultimately wouldn't go back to sleep without being in bed with me- but it turned out her eighth tooth had broken through her gum during that night, and the next night she slept straight through again.
Anyway! It's a very consistent, long-term miracle we're having here. I didn't mention in my original post, but Sophie was born with severe brain damage after birth asphyxia. Despite a month in intensive care and a very bad prognosis, she's been a complete miracle and today is 100% healthy and up to date with all of her milestones. Still, all that had a big impact on our willingness to let her cry- we just couldn't do it after all the trauma we/ she had been through at the start.
The nurse at Ngala, when I explained this background to her, stared at me for a minute, then asked, "Do you actually want to be here, or did your husband talk you into coming?". When I agreed to leave Sophie screaming her head off for almost a full hour, she told me that all her crying was just angry crying, and asked me why I was still upset when my baby wasn't (to me, furiously angry is just another kind of upset, something that Sheyne Rowley acknowledges and tells you how to deal with).
I can't really say enough bad things about our Ngala experience- and I still didn't get the difference in the types of cries until I got the Dream Baby Guide. A bit sad that it took a book to teach me something that an in-person clinic attendance couldn't.
Claire - Unfortunately I witnessed the same thing at a public hospital day stay when my DD was 5 weeks. Luckily it wasn't my DD but another couple (poor them). The 4-month old baby boy screamed for 4hrs before giving up out of pure exhaustion. The parents were young teenagers and honestly didn't know what to think but I can stab a guess that the 'routine' went out the window when they got home! It was sad to watch.
I recently had the priviledge of hearing Sheyne in person and she mentioned during her talk that she has submitted her work to the State Govt and they are assessing it for implementation/ roll out across the State in every Day Stay or longer-type facility. I thought this was excellent news!
So we can only hope that things might change...and in the meantime keep sharing our success stories with as many who want to listen :-)
I just wanted to make sure I understood this point, as I have been thinking about it and it is troubling me. So by saying this, do you mean that 90% of the time when your little one cries, it's not for a genuine or emotional need or reason, it's a 'protest' and needs to be dealt with differently?:
Aside: I am very aware that a few NEW users (who haven't even introduced themselves in the main introduction thread or posted elsewhere) are coming in here and raving and singing Sheyne's praises... this thread is being watched closely and anything seen to be promoting or pushing products will be removed.
Hi Kelly, thanks for asking for clarification :-) To be honest, my DD hardly ever cries. If she does happen to cry going down it's an over-tired cry. So I probably used the wrong terminolgy but to me she's protesting because she's tired and doesn't know how else to express herself.
If she wakes in the night (rare) I always attend because it's a rare occurence. Although I tend to wait a minute to see if she's transitioning between sleep cycles (usually just cries out rather than a real cry) or if it's a real hearty cry - I always attend this cry. Usually she's sitting up and just needs a cuddle - seems like she has the occasional bad dream.
I was really just trying to make the point that listening to cries rather than treating them all the same has really paid dividends for me. I have a DD that sleeps really well and because of that, rarely cries making it easy to work out what's going on.
Hope that helps. Sorry if I misrepresentated myself by saying that...
I was dubious when I first saw this thread pop up because of the number of rave reviews by brand new users, but have since read (some) of the book (my mum lent it to me), and so I wanted to put my two cents in..
I have found Sheyne's communication priciples really good for dealing with my toddler. He's a lot more co-operative and we have fewer tantrums because I'm communicating with him better and he knows what we're doing, what I expect, what's coming up, yada yada. I think the communication philosophy fits in well with the P.E.T stuff.
We've yet to implement the sleep stuff, because bubs is under 6 months and toddler is heading towards 3 (its recommended for 6mo-2yo). But I will give it a go with bubs when she's old enough because after 2 years of being BF'd to sleep and the last 8 months of being cuddled to sleep, the nearly-three year old still requires us to be there until he falls asleep (which we actually don't mind), and wakes up screaming if no-one is there with him (which we do mind, especiallly coz it's happening 4 times a night, and is pretty distressing for us all). It's like he can't fall asleep without us there, and I'd like to avoid that with the next bub. I have tried Sheyne's general philosphy with bub a couple of times - wrapping, rocking for a few minutes and putting her down awake, to be pleasantly surprised that it worked - 5 mins later DD is asleep (not exactly what she says to do but close enough) it never occurred to me to give her the chance to try to fall asleep on her own before, because my firstborn was so insistent on human contact to fall asleep. Other times I've found that after being put down wrapped and awake, DD will sort of talk to herself for about 10 minutes but go the other way and start to get unsettled and wriggle out of her wrap instead of settling down to sleep. I think it depends on how ready for sleep she is.. plus she's used to being fed or rocked to sleep, so I guess it's not going to work all the time at this stage and I'm really just experimenting to see what works ATM. I will give it a proper go when DD is old enough and see if it works for us.
So there's my 2 cents. If anyone has any suggestions for how to stop DS waking up screaming at this age, I'd love to hear them!
ETA: added info..
Hi Kelly,
I guess I'm one of those inconsiderate new members- I apologise, but I didn't actually realise there was a place to introduce myself. I arrived at this thread through the sitemeter on my blog- a common search term entered into Google had brought someone there and also here, so I thought I'd check it out and contribute my experience.
Like I said before, I've tried about six other sleep books/ methods, I've talked about ALL of them and what I did and didn't get out of them, and I decided to comment on this particular thread because the Dream Baby Guide is the method that worked for us in the end.
I'll go track down the introduction thread. I came across helpful BellyBelly threads heaps of times while I was pregnant and looking for information- it's a great site.
EDITED TO ADD: I can't actually find the introduction thread. Where should I be going for that?
Claire
Maybe I should make it clear that I'm in no way professionally or personally affiliated with Sheyne. Although I think she's a nice person, I don't know her from a bar of soap!
I guess when you find a method that works for your bub it gets you excited. Like many others I did a heck of alot of reading and this method was the only one that produced consistent results that didn't involve me having a breakdown in the process.
Sorry if it seems like I'm 'pushing' her product but I'm really just expressing what worked for me :-)
I also realise that allowing a baby/ toddler to cry at all really rubs some people the wrong way. I acknowledge that everyone is different and that you will parent to what you can tolerate. I don't judge my friends that parent this way and never offer advice unless asked. I guess I saw this thread as an opportunity to provide feedback on a book that is new to the market :-)
Hope that clears things up.
You can introduce yourself here.
I don't have a problem with babies crying, sometimes no matter what you do, they will cry... but what I WAS concerned at, is the 90% thing, which is why I posted. I haven't put down anyone or accused anyone here. I think it's important to clarify these things, as if someone came and read it and thought, well maybe my baby is just protesting 90% of the time, maybe I should comfort him much less etc. On the internet people tend to self-diagnose, in moments of weakness be easily influenced and take stuff on desperate for answers, and I feel a sense of responsibility for making sure things are clarified and explained as best possible to avoid distressing problems.
What I don't understand is why is the need for company not 'a genuine emotional need'????:
It certainly is for me, and if I wanted a hug but my DH decided that wasn't a genuine need I think I'd be pretty upset too.
If you want to pick up your baby when you feel the need, then by all means! I did this for quite some time and it led to sleepless nights and a very cranky baby and mum. Not to say that this is the case for all, but it was for me. I had to learn what was her just 'winding down' and her just wanting social company. Keep in mind that she's now nearly 20mo and it's more obvious at this age what the crying is about (well, I've found this). Please don't judge me...I have a happy, healthy child. I think whatever you want to do is fine! Ultimately you have to be comfortable in your own skin with your decisions.
I think I might sign out of this thread for now...it seems I might be upsetting too many people! Thanks for all the posts and to those who've been helped by Dream Baby Guide, that's great.
Hi all
I just happened across Clarie's blog a few days ago when I was searching for information about the risks of baby going over full term - ironically I read Grace's story on your blog, and also some posts by Kelly, so I can be sure that everyone is legit!! ;):
I'm expecting my first bub any day now. MIL gave me "Dream Baby" a few months ago and once I got sick of reading pregnancy books I started wading through the 750 page tome. It was fascinating reading I must say.
I think her methods make a HUGE amount of common sense, and she has so many rave reviews. For me reading it pre-bub, the 'sleep training' part of it is a minor element, hundreds of pages of the book are designed to develop such great communication with bub that you don't need to resort to any training, crying or otherwise. I LOVE the communication recommendations, and the 'respect' element.
I have done buckets of reading think it is very much the 'middle ground' between the parenting extremes (and I don't judge either 'extreme', only note that there are extremes of the spectrum!).
It is worth noting that Sheyne does not recommend any kind of routine management before bub is 6 months of age. But I'm really excited about being able to implement the techniques from an early age with my new bub to be and establishing the communication flow to help bub make relaxed transitions through the day. Role play with a teddy is a fab idea to in order to get bub comfortable with what's happening.
One issue that I may have is that I am very keen to go the baby led solids route. Although Sheyne does not address this directly I would imagine that that is not something she'd be keen on. No, I reflect on this and realise I'm wrong, it's not that she wouldn't be keen on it. She would say - firstly, if it works for you and bub then that is fine and don't change a thing; secondly, if it's not working for you then maybe you should look at changing it, and here's how you do it - communication, position, role play etc.
Yep I highly recommend the book, it is loooong and repetitive but just writing this post has made me realise that the theories have actually sunk in and can be used in all sorts of situations! Hopefully I will still be a fan in another 12 months time :P
Cheers
out of curiosity, how does the book help you distinguish the different types of cries? to an untrained person even just listening, you might think the cries mean the same thing. as a new mother, at first they all sounded the same and then slowly I learnt what they meant.
but just wanted to know how the book tells you what is what?
Maybe somebody else can answer that, I didn't dwell on that section as I hope not to need it! But she is talking about bubs over 6 months old I think it requires having gotten to know your babies sounds and cries over time.
The main thing that I noted is that she's talking about leaving them cry for only a few minutes in any event, and coming in immediately if they are in way distressed. If you don't know your babies cries well enough then her philosophy would be, I think, assume they are distressed and do not leave them to CIO.