Honesty and openness about motherhood

Since becoming a mum, I have realised I am perhaps more honest and open about my feelings and experiences than other people. As time has passed, I have found this reticence on the part of other mothers to be a little bit isolating. For example I was talking to another new mummy about feelings of frustration etc in the middle of the night when you're super tired and the baby is crying for the umpteenth time and you've just fed them and you just want to scream "Shut Up!"...and her eyes kinda glazed over and I actually stopped talking because I couldn't work out if I was hitting a nerve or she had no idea where I was coming from.

In fact I have found the most sympathetic ears to be among those women who don't have babies...

What is it about motherhood that makes us all a little bit less willing to discuss the raw and sometimes yukky things? Is it because it is all too close to home? I know I am not the only one who feels these things (thanks to BB), but why can't women IRL be more open and honest with each other?

Has anyone else experienced this?

:hug: Isn't it awful when that happens!? When you have an honest disclosure and it's met with a "what the"?

I guess it has to be remembered that we all have very very different experiences. With my first I was just like you - I couldn't get why everyone seemed to think motherhood was fabulous - when for me it was mostly horrible. When I had my second, because I had my first experience I was so besotted that I smiled when he woke me in the night. I really really loved it... I have to say it was the same with all the others. Yes, there are times that I just want to screech "SHUDDUP"!!! However it's just not the same as the first time.

I think its socially unacceptable to have anything except loving and positive emotions towards our children. This is why we get the glassed over eyes... When that happens we know "yep we've crossed that line in the sand"... The line that only delinquent mothers cross! :D

I want to affirm you as being completely normal & rational. I also want to applaud your honesty and frankness. Without that honesty there would be a lot of mothers wondering what the hell they were thinking with procreating!

Thanks so much for the reply FC. I really appreciate your kind and wise words.

The funny thing is I LOVE being a mummy, but I have found it to be really challenging - in the same way that I found university or a new job is challenging because it is so, so new and I feel like I am muddling through a little bit. I just haven't heard anyone else talk about it in these terms...and I am sure not everyone breezes through the experience...

Thanks for giving me the space to air these thoughts...I love BB!

I've totally had that experience too - a friend of mine said "Ohhh we should have had a baby sooner, this is just great why did we wait" and all I could think was "Thank god we waited, I don't know how I would have coped if we did this when I was younger". I was a teeny bit jealous she felt that way too.

In my experience motherhood scores a 10 out of 10 for wonderful while also scoring a 10 out of 10 for bloody hard too. Maybe if it were less hard it would be less wonderful? Sorry off topic a bit.

I think it is a shame that people, especially other mothers can't be more honest. I always end up feeling guilty that I'm "not doing it right". It's also sad that the second you're having a less than positive feeling that it's interpreted as regret for having a baby. I was having a vent one day that I was tired and the reply was (from a friend) "Well you wanted him". Yes I did want him, and I love him very dearly but this has not negated my need for more than 4 hours sleep per night.....!

Maybe as flowerchild says it has to do with their experiences. I'm yet to meet anyone IRL who has a baby who is as bull in a china shop as my DS is ;) But I'm in good company on BB hehe.

Tish

Even the very best of jobs are hard work. It took me a long time to really love being a mother. I felt protective, primal and devoted. But I didn't love it - I had a rough time though and a baby that just never settled (she has been diagnosed with aspergers so this explains much). I remember putting thepillow over my head just hoping that I was imagining I was awake again! I remember having to sit on the back stairs in a mass of tears and sobs as I just didn't know how I was going to get through the rest of the day. It's really really hard sometimes and Women who seem to have it all together make it seem like we who don't have it all together are failing.

You are doing great honey - :hug:

Hi anna :)

Personally, I love a good discussion about the ugly bits ofmothering- the bits hardly anyone talks about. the sleep deprivation, the frustrations, the trivialities, the isolation... I find it empowering to talk about. There seems to be this myth in our society of the perfect mother, who juggles everyhting and never feels like she might be losing it, and I love the way talking about imperfections contradicts that. There are no perfect mothers. but not being perfect doesn't mean you're not doing a very good job ;)

I understand some people find it confronting to talk about, or that they just don't get it. I guess there are some people who did have a fantastic mothering experience the first time round ( and more power to them- I only wish mine had been better). But I am not one of those people, and like I said i find it refreshing and empowering when people are honest about their feelings and experiences.

There's a realy brilliant book I read along these lines a couple of years (though it might be hard to find a copy now). PM me if you want the details :)

I agree I think it's to do with the "must appear to be a super-mum" mentality.

If I'm tired.. i'll say I'm tired, if the kids are ticking me off.. I'll say so LOL. If people want to see that as me regretting having kids.. meh.. I don't care. Altho I do care on the occassions it is DH saying I have to suck it up coz I wanted the kids! :rolleyes:

I certainly don't lie and say what great sleepers my babies are.. LOL. I quite proudly tell everyone how my babies are NORMAL and wake through the night! hahaha.

I do find there is always some competition with most mums.. if it's not who has the best sleeper, it's who has the worst sleeper! I don't like it when conversations turn into "poor me" sessions, because there is an element of truth in "suck it up.. you wanted kids" LOL. You gotta take the good with the bad with this parenting gig.

I do find tho that discussing things on here and discussing them IRL is very different and I find I can't talk the same way IRL. I always feel like I'm treading on people's toes. For instance I don't find giving breastfeeding advice IRL as easy as it is here. I dunno... probably not really related to this thread, but probably contributes to my current 'openness' and it not being received too well IRL. hehe. It's a different forum here.. people are here to give & receive advice and to learn.. whereas IRL that assumption cant be made.. so I have to watch I'm not giving unwanted advice or information about myself! does that make sense?

I think it depends on the company. I am sure that all mums feel that way at times - I sure have. But there are a lot of mums who will be too worried to admit that in case they are judged. This is why BB is such a great place - we can be honest without fear of judgement. It's not often you get that IRL. That's one reason why I loved my local ABA group - it was the one place where I could be me, bf and talk about the ups and downs, without any disapproving looks.

TBH I think the lack of a supportive network, where parents help each other and are open about the hard times, is part of why parenting is hard. So many mums feel pressure to have clean houses and full social calendars when they are barely surviving on a minimal amount of sleep. Or they feel socially isolated because leaving the house with a baby and a toddler with different sleep patterns just seems too hard. But who do they ask for help from? And would they get it if they asked? I think we are really lacking a true sense of community, and it's really only when you have your first baby that you realise it.

I think it's hard to say those things to people that you don't know eg. people in your Mothers Group because they basically don't know you from a bar of soap and the only frame of reference at first is the mothering thing. I found it difficult NOT to jump to conclusions about what sort of person someone was just from a couple of throwaway comments.

I think with friends it's easier - I mean I certainly wouldn't think one of my friends was a bad mum if she complained about the sleep deprivation because we've shared lots of experiences and I know she's a good person IYKWIM.

TBH, I think I had really low expectations of motherhood as most of what I've read in the 'thinking' mainstream press (eg. The Age) and women's mags such as Marie Claire emphasised just how hard motherhood is. So that has probably tempered my attitude ... I expected it to bloody hard because I hadn't read anything that said how wonderful it can be.

Its hard to admit that not everything is going so well, I guess. I find too that when times are harder than usual and I feel a bit flat, I tend to keep it in rather than say "I'm a bit flat" as what are people IRL going to say? They're generally going through the same thing and its hard to have DMs over crying babies, toddlers who want attention and the myriad of attention sappers that that interupt mothers conversations.

Thank goodness the BB girls will give you a 'chin up, tiger' and a hug!

Thanks everyone for the replies. This thread has certainly opened up my persepctive and re-affirmed (yet again) why I lurve BB!

Tish - You're always great company on BB!

LoriRae - Thanks for the post - I will PM you about the book!

Liz - I know what you mean about "poor me" sessions, because I certainly don't like that - I am just missing a rational and frank dicussion about how I feel sometimes, without it being couched in humour or exaggeration...but I think sometimes people respond better to an over the top "woe is me" kinda tone iykwim? And I agree about the "treading on people's toes" factor IRL...it makes it hard.

MR - I am an ABA member, so maybe I should try and get along to some more sessions (in fact I am hosting one very soon!)

fionas - I totally agree about the Mother's Group thing, and I have stopped going, because I felt I wasn't being understood. I think I had zero expectations about motherhood - and in a way its just been a shock to the system.

Willow - that is so, so true about women IRL being too busy to really talk. My SIL and I always try and have D&Ms, only to be interrupted a zillion times by our babies (and her toddlers).

Thanks again everyone!

I find that people I am making friends with are the ones who can be honest about parenting. So for me, I find that the difficulty in talking about being a parent depends on the other persons personality. There are some who I just open up more naturally to and others who I automatically put on the brave face. Have to admit as much as I love a good conversation about parenting in today's society, I do sometimes get that glazed look depending on who is talking. That person though is normally the one who loves the good whinge, but does not seem to be interested in what others have to say.

Im quite honest about it all. But people expect me to be frazzled and not coping with 3 boys 15mths apart :rofl: I think the reason why Im coping better than people expect is because I expected bad days, heck even bad weeks. I totally right off the first 6mths after my bubs are born as just-survive time. I remind myself that they grow up fast so I dont want to miss out on now but keep in mind that in 5 years life will have shifted completely.

I have days where I couldnt imagine my life any different and then others where I have the "Why did I?" moments. I think its perfectly normal, parenting has to be about the hardest job there is to do and its never ending - no holidays, sick leave, overtime pay, 12hr shifts. If you worked your 9-5 job 24/7 for years you'd burn out and get sick of it occasionally too.

I find alot of people dont want to face reality so they all put on brave faces. Me, Im a honesty-is-best-live-in-the-real-world kinda person so I cant pretend everything is peachy keen if it isnt.

Having second thoughts about motherhood, or even bad times where you wonder why and dont cope very well doesnt mean you hate your kids, hate being a mother, hate your life - it means your human.

Hi Anna

Great topic - like you one of the reasons I love BB!

Personally, I tend not to be open about my experience of motherhood because it has been nothing but a huggies commercial for me. Like all of us I have had days where I have yelled at my boys, burnt them or bumped their heads accidentally, given them lollies to keep them quiet, felt guilty about this or that or generally been too tired to respond to their cries sometimes, but on the whole it has been absolutely marvellous for me. I didn't suffer from PND, found breastfeeding to be like falling off a log, had great briths and pregnancies with both, have a supportive husband who is home full time with them while I maintain a successful and interesting career and my mother is a great help as well (plus it helps that both boys were robust and healthy and never suffered from colic). I honestly feel like I have cheated I have it that good. :redface: I know it sounds like I am being arrogant but I actually think I am extreeeeemely lucky and so that's why I don't really talk about my experiences much. Just a different angle :)

Yeah see thats the thing Rory, sometimes no one wants to hear if your journey has been pretty good. Its like a competition amongst women, who can do it better lol They want people to say "Oh IM not coping, how about you" so they can fib and say "Oh fabulous" but secretly think Oh thankgod, her kids have xxx more tanties than mine, sleep xxxx amount of time less..........et al" :rofl:

I often get people saying "Oh it isnt fair you make having 3 kids so close look easy" and "Oh can I have advice about xxxxxxxx cause your like a mothering guru, your kids are so good" blah blah blah. I remind them that they only see my kids 1/4 of the time, the rest of the time they are just a normally naughty and horrible as everyone else's. As for being wise, I can only give comment on whats worked for myself which is not what might work for everyone else. Like you Ive been veeeeeeery lucky to get pretty good babies/kids; so its been a tad bit easier to deal with the moments of chaos.

And thats what it all comes down too - LUCK lol

Some really great points so far :) I'm not sure I have much to add!
I too have been a bit bothered by the lack of warts-and-all discussion on parenting, pregnancy/birth etc that I've experienced with my friends. Maybe on BB we are more comfortable with the 'TMI' because it's more anonymous, or maybe I just have a circle of friends who are more 'stiff-upper-lip' than I would like them to be at times. I find that when we do get around to the frank discussion on the bad bits of being a mum, it seems to turn into that old competition about who's got it worse, which I don't like. I don't care that so-and-so feels they have a harder job than I, I just want to know that someone else is going through it and can commiserate, not compete, kwim?

It could just be because I'm a chronic motormouth - I have zero qualms about laying bare all the joys, challenges AND the frustrations of being a mum. I don't at all buy into this 'supermum' bs, it's a lie. We have good days, we have bad days - and depending which day you catch me on, motherhood is either the most supremely awesome invention ever, or it's a living nightmare from which I have no hope of escape! I'm not ashamed to say it out loud and be proud that I can admit to the struggles as well as the wins.

For me, talking about all this stuff depends on who I'm talking to - for instance, if it's a friend who is expecting or TTC, I try to steer away from the negative aspects or at least gloss them over so it doesn't come across like I'm trying to scare them; if it's a friend who has kids older than mine, it's more, 'Oh my goodness wth is wrong with these kids?! Did yours do this?! HELP MEEEE!!!' And with any scenario, the worst thing is when they get that 'shut-down' glaze in their eyes, like I'm betraying generations of women before us by admitting to faults or that kids aren't always angels. It's like, come ON, be real here - mine can be little terrors and I KNOW yours are too!

I so hear you Anna ... i for sometime thought there must be some secret code amongst Mothers and i felt so out of it ... like am i the ODD one here :rolleyes:

Couple of times i left my Mother's Group meetup going home in almost tears as i could clearly see not a person appeared to be on my planet of thinking. But as time went by the cracks came undone with others Mother's whom turned out to be ' thinking ' some of the same things as i.

Anna ... i think perhaps for people like you & i we are just that much more open & outward in our thoughts & speaking out a loud. I say shame on those that gave you ' the look ' when they were thinking the same but didn't want to admit to it and therefore made you feel uncomfortable ... i for one was disappointed that the Mum's i was in contact with were not as supportive as i thought but as time went by i have since found like-minded Mother's HAPPY to admit openly of their thoughts & feelings and therefore help and support each other ;)

... and as you mentioned Anna it's so true no one wants to look like they are not coping or appear to be the best Mother who walked the earth ... BUT i found when everyone's lovely children turned the big ' 2 ' WOW did everyone OPEN UP then, LOL ;)

Just wanted to add I saw a little bit of an Oprah episode a couple of months back (was interrupted by motherly duties!) about this. There was a book on there 2 friends wrote about this..some thing like "I'd swap my husband for a housekeeper"

Wow, I am loving the responses!

AnnaT - I love your attitude and I wish someone had told me the first 6 months were about survival...because that's all I was doing and I kept wondering why everyone else seemed to have it all together and I was just muddling on through.

Glamouricide - I think I am perhaps on the talkative end of the scale too (:lol:) so perhaps those same people would glaze over no matter what because I just keep talking and talking and talking :lol:

Your post also got me thinking about how to talk about these things with the next generation of mummies. I mean I don't want to scare anyone, but I also don't want to put on a brave face so the person doesn't open up...so far I just validate EVERYTHING as normal.

"My baby wakes 10 times a night sometimes" - normal. "My baby feeds 2 hourly" - normal. "Still not crawing at x months - normal". The list goes on!

Do you think perhaps it is easier for some people not to say anything, because in the end it is ALL actually normal??? *Clouds part moment*

i would recomend a book called the mask of motherhood...
you might find it very interesting

Wow, I thought so much about this, great topic.

I have a group of girlfriends who I met through my SIL who are older and have 3 or four kids each this was amazing because it gave me persmission to feel whatever I liked and to talk about it without feeling like an axe murderer.They told me that I'd say and feel horrible things about my baby (and my husband LOL) and it made such a difference.

When I met my mums group I thought, stuff this, I'm going to be completely honest and if they don't like me then I would just miss out. When they asked us what we liked about being a mum, I said that I wasn't sure I liked being a mum yet, then another girl said that she felt like selling her baby on ebay one night and that was it, we were off and I've made some really good friends who I can be honest with.

So continue to be brave, tell the truth, support other new mums to feel bad if they feel bad and if next time they love their baby to death then you'd love to hear about that too.

Hmmm, I have noticed this also, but so far mostly in discussions about the birth. I was caught a bit unawares by it, I was just chatting with my 'mummy' family and friends about how the birth had gone and after a few discussions I realised I was being much more honest than they were, or that they were used to people being. Particularly regarding how I coped with the pain - I was quite open about how I was not coping and needed an epi (even though I was trying to avoid it), but found others were much more guarded about what pain relief they had, even my SIL who had quite a difficult birth and I imagine would have needed every pain relief option under the sun the poor girl.

Its funny that this topic came up in Mothers Group today. I didn't realise that one of the mums was struggling more than she let on and found it really hard to come to mg because 'everyone else was enjoying their baby' while she wasn't. This was a quiet side discussion with just 3 of us, but interestingly all 3 of us said that it was harder than we made out but we all try to put on a brave face about it.

I'm following all your thoughts on this topic with interest as I'm not sure why we put motherhood on such a pedistal when a lot of the time its hard graft and in a very real sense of the word *****ty.

Interestingly, I typed out a dsiclaimer - ooh but don't get me wrong, I still love being a mother - but isn't that exactly what this topic is about?!

Winter I know exactly what you mean about the disclaimer! I was just about to do the same thing on another thread about things you miss since having kids, and went back and deleted it!
Why do we feel we need a disclaimer? Why can't we just talk about the negative aspects of our experience without feeling like we have to qualify it? Motherhood is bloody hard, frustrating, disgusting, painful and relentless at times, just as it is wonderful, empowering, delightful and funny at other times. Why do we feel that by talking about the bad bits people will think we don't love our children or that we regret becoming mothers?

^ I know, right? Sometimes it feels like I'm not allowed to have a whinge about the sucky parts of being a mum, especially to my own mother (which is weird, right? You would think she would understand better than anyone, especially when she sees DD1 at her worst and swears I never gave her that much trouble) - we ended up having a big fight one day because I was at the end of my rope and she got all smart with me... 'Well, you *wanted* them...!' I went off my head at her! Of course I wanted them! Does that mean I'm supposed to pretend to all and sundry that my life is now a fricking Huggies commercial (to quote a PP, good one lol :D And btw I'm really glad things are so great for you - it's wonderful that you do have a great time!) 24/7, and completely deny that I do sometimes have trouble doing things right or putting up with the crap? Just because I have bad days, doesn't mean I wish I could take my kids back and trade them for the single, carefree life. Just because I struggle to cope some days, doesn't mean I don't appreciate the days when it all falls into place and I *loooove* being a mum. Just because I wanted to have kids, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to admit that I'm not a perfect parent.

I had a similiar experience at MG - I really struggled with feeling like the odd one out. Everyone else seemed to be breezing through, I also was challenged by the competitive nature of some of the girls. I guess you are not going to mesh with everyone so it is a case of finding like minded souls perhaps? We all love our kids and wouldn't be without them but I have not ever been as challenged or tested as I have since I had my girls.

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I had a similiar experience at MG - I really struggled with feeling like the odd one out. Everyone else seemed to be breezing through, I also was challenged by the competitive nature of some of the girls. I guess you are not going to mesh with everyone so it is a case of finding like minded souls perhaps? We all love our kids and wouldn't be without them but I have not ever been as challenged or tested as I have since I had my girls.

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Me too! - hence why i never went back to MG after the "official" ones which were held at the MCHN centre :) - I've since joined a play group and the girls are fantastic - we all have a whinge now and then about the stuff no-one ever mentions about motherhood which is great cause it helps me realise that im no the only one who has "bad" days :)

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Winter I know exactly what you mean about the disclaimer! I was just about to do the same thing on another thread about things you miss since having kids, and went back and deleted it!

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Funny you should say that pixie, I was just reading back through that thread, going to myself "Gee I sound a bit harsh. Maybe I should have put a disclaimer on there.." :lol: I just assume that everyone else assumes that the disclaimer is automatic- we all love our little darlings to the moon and back but I'm going to whinge anyway ;) I'm guilty of making the same mistake IRL and I kick myself after some conversations, thinking what a bad mummy I must sound like...

There's a realy brilliant book I read along these lines a couple of years (though it might be hard to find a copy now). PM me if you want the details :)[/QUOTE]

Hi I'd love to know the name of the book & author. Not too sure how to PM though.

I am so glad I found this thread, I have found motherhood to be so isolating and one of the biggest struggles. I constantly feel that I am failing, failing my little people and failing myself because I am not the mother I wanted to be for them! I tend to not talk about how desparate I feel w other's unless they make a comment or bring it up because I have always got the feeling that Im the only one who feels this way... Sometimes I feel that I could just walk away but the only reason I don't is because I know I would regret it and I wouldn't be able to come back. So I muddle along but always question what Im doing and how I do it!!!

I found a good little book called "Your a fabulous Mum - Despite the stale bread, unmade beds and guilty thoughts in your head". It's a light look at feeling like your not succeeding and two quotes I love "Guilt - maternal - illusion of wrong doing. Irrational nagging conviction that you are failing your children and would be doing so much better if you were almost anyone else! Seemingly no male equivalent" & " The joys of motherhood are never fully experienced until the children are in bed" Anon.

I guess I will continue to muddle through because I know that in my heart, no matter what, I love to distraction my little people.

"Mother is the name for God on the lips of all children".

TUP, the name of the book is Secret Mothers Business and the author is Joanne Feilding. It's an Australian book written a few years ago. Hun, I promise you that you are not failing. Parenting is the most difficult job around, and it's always a work in progress. I don't think any of us are the mothers we thought we would be (at least I'm not ;)). The older ds gets, the less of a the 'ideal mother' I am.

Big :hug: hun. Like I said, you are not failing. We're all just muddling through, doing the best we can.

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TUP, the name of the book is Secret Mothers Business and the author is Joanne Feilding. It's an Australian book written a few years ago. Hun, I promise you that you are not failing. Parenting is the most difficult job around, and it's always a work in progress. I don't think any of us are the mothers we thought we would be (at least I'm not ;)). The older ds gets, the less of a the 'ideal mother' I am.

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Thanks LoriRae :hug:

It's funny cos I work as a social worker, with high risk offenders and I am so confident in my ability to do my job yet my little people have the ability in an instant to totally undo me!!

I have had a look for that book , found it on ebay and the next one she wrote so they should be here next week. Am looking forward to reading them...

I hope everyone has had a great weekend :o

Such a great thread... bumpity bumping it out of the cobwebs :bump:

I won't be honest. I know full well that DS's "failings" are my fault and I need to behave as a childless Nanny to correct him. I know that this is the advice from about 95% of the population should I mention that I struggle, that DS doesn't sleep through (still! age three!), that I am ungrateful enough to see that some things are easier without children... so I tend to hang out with the 5% of the population who have normal children too. Hard to find them. They're not people I would like otherwise. Or even cross the road to speak to. But they have normal children, which makes them a godsend in my eyes. But you do get a lot of knockbacks in finding them.

I wonder why? OK some children are unnatural but why do mothers pretend that motherhood is like having a new and flash dolly?