I need your help to support families

Hi everyone,
I hope you don't mind me posting in here and asking for some advice from you all. Many of you may or may not know that I'm a midwife and now I am becoming one of the more senior ones at work and I'm being ask to step up in birth suites. So basically I am going to be caring and support women, their partners and support people through labour and giving birth to their precious babies who are too special for this earth.
I am just terrified that I am going to say the wrong thing and make the most difficult situation even worse for the parents. I just want to support/help them through the best way I can.

So if you don't mind sharing what did you find helpful during your labour that your midwife/support people did/said and what was unhelpful/hurtful/distressing?

I'm thanking you all in advance for sharing your thoughts on such a personal and private day. Please don't feel pressured to share anything that you are not comfortable with. Absolutely nothing shared in here I will ever repeat. It is purely for my own personal development. I promise you all that.

Thank you all so much,
Dan.

Dan - I am one handed typing but I am more than happy to talk to you any time and give you my perspective. I will try to get back when I have two hands to type with and give you a response too.

I know how hard things are for you at the moment Michelle so no hurry at all. Thank you for being willing to share your perspective with me :hug:

I'm quite happy to help as well :) Did you want the answers in this thread, or via PM? :)

When I was in labour with Emmanuel my midwife was an angel. It was not necessarily what she said but she was just there for me. During the night she never left the room, she held my hand and gave me hugs, it meant so much and I will never ever forget her.

Regards,
Dianne

I really wanted a natural drug free labour, and for the last 8hrs of my labour, all the midwives were pressuring me to have the epidural, but there was one lovely midwife that told me she'd had 4 kids naturally. I guess just having someone remind me that it wasn't compulsary to have medical intervention helped me stick to my guns.

I don't mind how you respond ladies. Which ever option is more comfortable for you.

For me, it was the general compassion I was shown that helped me so much. DH & I were given shoulders to cry on when we needed them and the midwife that delivered Noah shed a few tears and told us how beautiful he was and congratulated us on becoming parents. It meant so much to me that DH was really supported too. Yeah it is a massive thing for the Mum to go through but very often the Dad's feelings are cast aside.

I can't remember a lot about my labour with Noah, but I knew I was supported and my midwife wasn't going anywhere until well after Noah was born.

I guess the worst thing that happened wasn't from a midwife but it was awful. I was home and it was my first day alone. DH was back at work and the kids were back to school. I got a phonecall from the hospital. Thye wanted to ask me some questions in regards to Noah's post mortem examination. I told them it was a bad time for me and could they call later when DH was home. They said no and they needed an answer then & there. I got the courage up and said okay. They then asked me if I would like Noah's organs placed back into his body after the post mortem. I lost it. I cried so hard & could barely speak. I was never apologised to either. I feel this is something that should have been asked whilst I was in the hospital after we'd agreed to the PME.

Oh, now, I'm different :redface: I liked it more when they left us alone to cry/bond with Ianto/relax/whatever... Or maybe I just had really annoying midwives?

Thinking about this, all I could come up with was a bunch of "Don't do"s... I didn't realise how hurt I still am by some of the things that happened... So here's my list (though it may just be me)

• If the woman says she wants to be induced as soon as possible, do it. Even if it's policy to wait for the ultrasound results, start the induction and you can look at the results while she's in labour. I think I was kinda tricked, because they didn't tell me I wasn't allowed to get up after the gels until the third lot went in - the first after they had the u/s results.
• If you've asked a few times during/before labour if the parents want to see and hold their baby, and they've said yes every time, they have made up their mind. You don't need to ask again after the baby is born.
• Treat it sort of like a live birth. Yes, the baby has died, and the parents do know that, but they might benefit from things like being able to bath him/her without having to fight for it. One tiny, tiny detail that still upsets me is that they plonked Ianto on the scales, and then left him there as they wrote his weight down on the other side of the room. If it had been a live birth, he would've been held gently, picked up off the scales after his weight was taken...
• If the woman says that she wants to leave the hospital "as late as possible" she doesn't mean that night. She wants to stay as long as she's allowed to. Especially if she knows that hospital policy is to have mums stay for two nights after baby's born and has only been there one. They told me that I could stay for as long as I wanted unless there was another woman who needed the room. I was fine with that. But then they made me leave a day too early when I didn't want to. There was no other woman, and they had at least three free beds when I left.

I'll come back to this, I have more :cry:

:hug: Thank God for amazing women like you Dan:)

:hug: to all that have lost:(

Teni - Even 4.5 years later I cried whilst writing down that phone call. All this time later and I am still tortured by that call :(

I definitely agree to treating it like a live birth. As much as we knoew the reality, the respect given to our child is so important.
I am so sorry to hear you were made to leave before you were ready. I was never told when I had to go thankfully. I had a room and DH had a fold out bed and we were there for 4 days in total. Leaving was the hardest thing I had to do as that was the final goodbye before the funeral.

I had some good care and some truly AWFUL care when we found out our precious Ellen died on 13th Jan 2010.
We went to hospital for a "check up" after her due date. MW couldn't find a heartbeat. She got a dr but MW didn't say Ellen had died. The dr she got wouldn't say anything either so he got another dr who finally told us. Be brave TELL people. We were left guessing what was going on for about 1/2 hour....it felt like months! My hubby had to shout at one of the dr's to find out what was going on!
The care we got during labour was good BUT I was not offered one of the "bears of hope" to take home in my arms from hospital. It would have made a HUGE difference to have this. The MW who looked after us also didn't get a lock of Ellen's hair. Luckily we thought of this before she was cremated.
They also have a thing at that hospital that they give out special quilts that are donated. One quilt is big and the other is small, one goes with baby and the other stays with the parents. This was not offered to us either.
Not being offered the quilt or the bear made me think I was not as important as other mothers who had lost a child. Worse it made me feel they didn't think Ellen was important. I was and still am upset about this. I have been offered these things since but have rejected this. It does not mean the same as if it had been properly handled.
I also had hospital mental health workers come into the room when I was in labour and even though I clearly said I did not want them there they came in. I was very upset by this.
Generally the MidWives were careful, friendly and understanding.
I was encouraged to leave hospital after one night. I gave birth to my full term baby at 7.30pm and by lunch the next day I was home.
As we live out of town and I was at the major hospital and not transfered with baby to the local hospital I did not get midwife visits at home. I was very scared about how my body was after birth and didn't feel brave enough to ask anyone. One visit even would have been good. Had I had a live baby I would have got that service.
Reliving this makes me sad but perhaps it will be read by a carer and things will improve for other mothers.
Kate

Oh, and don't tell a mother her child is "starting to smell"! FFS, that really upset me (made worse by the fact that my mum and Scott agreed :() - I freaking LIKED his smell! He still smelt like a normal baby to me :cry: It was that beautiful sweet smell... hence why my blog is called SWEET Soft Smudge and not Stinky Soft Smudge ;)

I had a senior midwife through my whole 9 hour labour to end our pregnancy due to multiple fetal abnormalities what made me feel comfortable was she told me exactly what was going to happen and she would tell me when things were happening eg. she could feel the little head and if i need to go to the toilet to let her know so she could place a pan in the toilet as some babies come real quick once mum is on the loo.
She also only asked once what we wanted eg. to see Abbi being born do we want to hold her i said i did not want to see Abbi being born incase she tried to breath so the midwife got my mum and sister to hold a blanket up so DH and i couldnt see until she was out and cleaned up.
The most touching thing was the midwife treated her like a normal birth she passed her to us and said see you have a little girl showing us her privates (as she new we had 3 boys ) and then said she is absolutely beautiful and a sweet little angel there was no mention of her deformities just how beautiful she was.
The midwife also said Abbi did not take a breath and had passed away during the labour which put my mind at ease knowing she did not suffer she was compassionate and caring she shed a tear with us showing us she cared and we were not just a job to her.
The things i did not like was the grief councillor came to talk to us while i was in labour i said no i dont want to see one now but she just came in i was in so much pain and the inducing drugs had made me have to rush to the loo constantly with cramps and she still wouldnt leave so i yelled at her to get out they should come before your induced or after bub is born not during.
And the other thing i did not like was we took our camera to take photos and were just overwhelmed so the midwife offered to take them on the hospital camera which was great she then took Abbi away and took photos when she came back and showed us what she had taken and said they would transfer them onto a disc and post them to us which was good but the camera was not left in a sercure place and the memory card was not removed for safe keeping so another nurse came along and deleted the photos by the time we were told Abbi had already gone to have the autopsy so we were unable to have some nice photos of our daughter when the senior midwife who delivered Abbi found out she rang us devastated and the organised Abbi to be brought back from westmead hospital to our hospital and she collected her from the morgue and brought her up to the maternity ward wrapped her in a blanket and took one photo of her beautiful little face and hands she rang me and told me what she had done and she said Abbi still looked fine after 10 days in the morgue and that i would like the photo it turned out to be ok and i thank her every day if it wasnt for her i would have not a single photo of our girl it just proved to us she really cared.
Sorry i have gone on but i hope it helps.

Wow - first of all - thankyou....... thankyou for asking rather than just assuming. That tells me more than anything that you are going to wonderfully in your new role... of course you'll be scared and nervous, but so are the parents. One of the sad realities is that you will learn from your mistakes, and that is hard in any job that involves people at their most vulnerable. but you will make less I'd guess because you have already asked, rather than assumed.

I have had two experiences with extremely premature labour and neonatal death. One birth happened to be on a day when my Obs was available and I was cared for to a great extent by my Obs and the middi. I was 22 weeks gestation and had never given birth before and hadn't been to antenatal classes yet. The other birth was in the middle of the night where the Obs on call was busy with women whose babies were more likely to survive than mine and I was cared fr predominantly by middies. I was 19 weeks gestation, but had been through labour before but still no antenatal classes. My admission into hospital and post birth care were obviously the primary responsibilities of the middies, but my Obs was visiting twice daily. So what I plan to do is just tell you what helped me, what didn't and who it came from. I suppose you might respond slightly differently depending on whether the parents have had the chance to attend antenatal classes or not....

On my first admission the Middi who took my call and later managed the admission - kept us informed as best she could at every stage, about what to expect next, obviously limited by her responsibilities with the hossy system, she was attentive and understanding and tried to allay both DH and my fears, she offered us refreshments. She was kindly without being smothering.

Whilst on the antenatal ward the only two things that were hurtful was when the flower lady came in and commented that I didn't have many flowers.... I presume most maternity wards keep a list detailing what the circumstances of each patient is. I didn't see the flower lady again. The other thing was my name wasn't written on the board above my bed... my Obs ended up doing it himself when he came in. During this time everyone who came to see me and DH were understanding, chatty if we were but otherwise, gentle and brief.

When I needed attention the middi who first came, initially tested for the baby's heartbeat with the visitors in the room. She didn't ask if that was ok. In the end I was glad the visitors got to share that. When I needed serious attention she asked everyone but DH to leave, in a kind but firm manner. She was good with how she managed me, gave us enough information about what was happening and what would happen next.

In the birthing suite I was petrified and an older midwife I had did an exceptional job at calming me. I remember asking whether I could have a caesar and her response, kind but factual, and then I remember saying something to DH like, we haven't even done our breathing yet, and she responded by holding my hand, asking me to look at her... when I did, she said very calmly, all you have to do is listen to me, I will guide you and we will get through. She was very good too with DH letting him know what sorts of things he could do to help. After a while we got into a pattern and it worked well. I needed her to take control like she did, and she did it well and with respect for both us.

The Obs came in and told us both what was happening and what to expect next and in fact the Obs did this exceptionally well at every stage, but I expect that Middies would be able to do some of these things too. What he also did was to prepare us gently for what we might have to expect our baby to look like and that our imagination would be worse than reality, whether the baby would be alive or not, started us thinking about whether we wanted to hold our baby, whether we wanted footprints and photos taken, whether the baby would be put on my chest straight away with the cord still attached, whether DH wanted to cut the cord, names for the baby, whether a post moretem was something that was needed. This wasn't all done at once but over the course of the labour, when there were lulls.

There was a shift change and the darling older middie went off shift. A younger one replaced her. I found it harder to build a rapport with her. I can't really remember what stage the labour was at. In time I felt more comfortable with her and she stayed until the birth.

Once Amelia was born the middi asked quietly if we wanted to know if the baby was girl or boy. and she told us. Then the Obs asked, and we acted as if we didn't know but shared a wry smile with the middi.

The Middi got the little sands book and helped us get handprints and footprints and filled out the little cards with just exisquite handwriting and treated our precious daughter as if she was truly precious and treated Amelia with dignity and respect. She helped us in feeling validated as parents and comfortable handling our wee little girl. We didn't have clothes for Amelia, so she went and got a selection and we all chose them together, including blankets. She even put a nappy on Amelia. She didn't ask if we wanted to dress Amelia. I regret not dressing her now. She didn't ask if we wanted to bathe Amelia either, and that's something I regret. I am not bitter about it but it would have been good to have been given the choice. Unless you've been through it before,in the aftermath of labour and such heartache, it's hard to know what to ask for, especially for extremely prem births.

We were left alone for a very long time in the birthing suite to marvel at our precous baby girl We were given refreshments and checked on.

The Middi was really good about the effects of the epidural I'd had. She was good at letting me shower by myself but being nearby if needed and good about getting us back to our room and making sure DH was set up to stay the night.

The Obs saw us as we left delivery and then came into our room a little while later, and went over some more things with us.. and told us a little about what to expect from grief.

The hospital was happy for us to stay as long as we wanted and to have Amelia with us as long or as frequently as we wanted. The middis always treated our baby with respect and dignity and us as well - they tended to Amelia as if she were a live baby. They called the place where Amelia was when she wasn't with us ... the place for special angel babies. I knew very well what they meant, but it was nice that it wasn't referred to. Although on my second admission one of the middies did say oh we'll have to get the baby from the fridge. I corrected her. So don't do that. Even though I knew and I was more knowledgeable on the second admission, remember the babies are much loved and longed for and deeply missed.

When it was time to go, the middis arranged for some of Amelia's clothes ( they asked us first) to be delivered to us, and they were delivered to us with a single red rose. It was a really nice touch.

On the second admission it wasn't as smooth as I'd spoken to the Ob on call who said to come in but hadn't told the middi. But they handled the surprise well.

The middi who managed my admission was friendly, but when she adjusted my bed to invert my feet, it was an old style bed and I was much heavier than she was and she ended up shooting up into the air and I was clunked down. It really upset me to be jarred around like that. So if your patient is heavier than you, get someone else in to help if you have an older style bed.

Again the middi was inclusive of DH.

I was given panadol to help settle the uterus. Later on when I was asking for pain relief options I was told there were none at all until the panadol wore off. It would have been nice to have been told that before I accepted the panadol. So I laboured without any drugs. I don't think gas was offered... can't remember.

The middi was very attentive to me during labour and was very directive when my oxygen sat levels dropped and her approach worked. I was pretty out of it. One of the other middis who came in after Sophie was born tried to tug on the cord. I didn't like that, and the original middi scolded her. Even though it was shift change, the first middi stayed with us.

Again we were left alone, but this time DH and I were able to ask for what we wanted - hand foot prints, bracelet, hospital id cards, clothes, bathing, photos, baby straight on my chest after birth.etc. I couldn't bathe Sophie, but DH did and he nursed her for a long time whilst I was being tended to and coming to.

The Obs was a bit blunt saying "you know this has happened because of "x condition". I didn't appreciate that, as it was delivered bluntly and after seeing me for less than 10 mins from admission to post birth, when I had been under the care of an Ob who I had a good rapport with and I'd told the Ob on call my history. I know most Middis are VERY careful about what they say and don't say about medical issues, and whilst I know that does cause angst for some people, I understand that ultimately a Middi may not be qualified or insured to say those things or deliver that news. But maybe if an Obs has been a bit blunt they can try and help the patient/parents through that?

Again, the hossy were happy for us to stay as long as we wanted and to have Sophie with as as long as we wanted. There was that terrible comment about the "fridge". When it was time for us go, we buzzed and it took ages and finally someone came. We were distraught at leaving and giving up our girl, and the middi who came to us obviously wasn't trained in dealing with angel babies. She was clearly petrified. When she realised she said I'll get one of the other middies. I know it was hard for her, but it was pretty hard for us too, too build ourselves up for a last goodbye only to have to do it again. The little bit of composure we'd managed to muster had disintegrated. So my tip there is, tell junior staff to make very sure of which rooms the bereaved parents are in. I am sure the young middi was as traumatised as we were.

I really liked when the middies treated our children with respect and dignity and genuine care. I liked when they used our childrens names. I liked when they told us how beautiful our children are. I liked it when they said sorry, although not many did say sorry. I liked it when they sat by my bed and held my hand ( well only one each admission did this).

DH says there it felt like there was too long between being checked on with Sophie, but they were also quite busy that night.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Good luck and again, thankyou for asking. It means a lot to be asked.

I wrote a document that is in the process of getting implemented in my local hospitals, I am happy to let you have a copy if you pm me your email,

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So my tip there is, tell junior staff to make very sure of which rooms the bereaved parents are in.

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I definitely agree with Dory here. The people who come around offering tea & coffee, the people selling magazines and the people who bring your meals also need to be told as it was so uncomfortable for me & them when they asked me what did I have and I would have to reply that I had a little stillborn boy.

I was also asked the same thing when I went into theater to have the placenta removed. It was horrible and something that still upsets me. The nurse in there was all smiles and asked if I'd had a healthy little boy or girl. I again replied that I'd had a beautiful little stillborn boy and that is when the tears flowed & flowed. It was horrible. There had been so much time between Noah's birth and me going to theater that surely someone could have informed them of my exact situation.

Thank you all so much for sharing your stories with me. Somethings that have happened to you (the treatment and comments you received) are just breaking my heart. Those comments and treatments, even something that I would never have thought of like when Ianto was left on the scales. You are all so incredibly and unbelievable strong women to me. I'm going to hold onto your stories and always have you with me in my heart to try and support grieving families in a special way. I can't thank you all enough :grouphug:.

Liv - when I'm ready, I'll come back and tell you what helped after Leo died. We were looked after really well, despite the shock to us and everyone else that he died.

Tashy babe - I am pretty sure we've come across each other around the place in BB, but regardless, I am so sorry that your precious beautiful son Leo died. Thinking of you in these very hard times.... but glad that you feel that you were well looked after, it does help. Thinking of you.

I have a few more "don'ts" based on my personal experience.....

I had an orderly come into my room just before I was taken to another room after giving birth, and asked where the formaldahyde (sp?) solution was. Of course I knew it was for my baby. That imagery was something I definately did not need. He was oblivious to the fact i was RIGHT THERE!! And that was MY BABY he was about to put in that solution!! So, as others have said, make sure staff know which room the bereaved mums are in.

Also, don't argue with a mum who's just lost a baby (not that I'd think you would as you seem especially caring and thoughtful), but I had a nurse argue with me when I asked for my meds which I knew were due for me. I ended up yelling "Do you know why I'm here ??!!"

I also found it frustrating that the midwives could not give a single clue as to why my baby died, which really confused me at the time. Since then I've learnt of various causes like a cord accident etc, which would have been useful info at the time. I'm not sure maybe midwives aren't allowed to give you that sort of info??

I also didn't like when one particular middie kept on looking for a heartbeat when it was pretty obvious to everyone there wasn't one, another senior middie actually came and told her to stop.

Never having been though anything like this before I wish the middies would have encouraged us to hold & bathe our little man, & spend more time with him. I was so distraught, shocked & frightened I didn't really think that through and how I might need those precious memories of him in the future :(

The "right" things that the midwives did with me were:

Held my hand through the birth

Give me room on the general ward for my overnight stay, staying on the maternity ward would have been torture

Came and gave me stories of how they had known mums to go to have healthy babies following a loss like mine

Giving me the Sids & kids info & memory booklet with footprints, handprints weight & length


Thankyou so much for taking the time to hear the mums opinions & experiences who have been through this. You must be a wonderful midwife.

Waterlily - good point about being asked about being moved to the general ward v's post natal. I am sorry that you had that experience with the wardy and the two middies. In your time of need it doesn't help. And you make such a good point - about being distraught and shocked and frigthened and how at that time, you can't possibly imagine what you might need in the future.

I was given the option as to which ward, and chose post natal, but was told I could change at any time. I chose it because I wanted to be cared for by the middies I knew and not the nurses on the general ward and to be closer to my angels. But I think that was an assumption I made about not being cared for by the middies, I never actually asked. In fact have chosen it twice the post natal ward... although the second time I almost regretted it as the couple in the next room spent most of the night fighting loudly followed by the woman crying hysterically interspersed with the wails of their little one. That was tough ( not just for us it seems) but DH and I got through. But everyone needs are different, you make a good point about being given options.

I was never given the option to choose a ward. I was basically told that unfortunately I would be on the maternity ward so that the midwives would be looking after me. I was given a room that was sorta away from the other mums but didn't make me feel like an outcast or anything. I was very close to the midwives desk and I had my own room.

I remember when I had my DD2 13 years ago, I was put in a room with 3 other women. 2 had had c-sections and were sleeping and the other mum who was directly opposite to me had birthed a still baby. She just cried so much and she couldn't speak english which made it so hard. I often felt terrible for bonding with my daughter in front of her and since having my own loss, I can only imagine how incredibly heartbreaking it would have been for her to be in a room with 3 crying, healthy babies :(

Lisa .... that poor woman ...I am sad just thinking about how hard it was for her and not speaking English. I sorry that you felt guilty, but I would have too.

My wife and I suffered a second trimester loss this week - while I know this is not the same as a stillbirth I hope some of this may help, based on her experience of the 20 or so people who interacted with her over this time.

Helpful for L was:

- the midwife who made clear eye contact with L
- who gave us clear information in a sensitive way
- who admitted that things were awful for us
- we got placed right at the end of the corridor in a room with a fold-out bed and I was allowed to stay with L 24/7. the ward staff filled the hospital from the opposite end down to us and tried to keep newborns to the other corridor, despite it being a ob/gyn ward.
- extra pillows (small comforts)
- people avoiding patter or rehearsed phrases/sing-song voice. L was really upset by someone who said all the right things, but in a way that showed how unconnected emotionally she was to the situation
- it's okay for you to be upset if you are upset.
- treating a couple as a couple
- being offered something tiny to eat (cheese and crackers)
- being patiently waited for while L tried to respond to questions - she wasn't in a good state to process anything at all.
- being reassured that we couldn't have done anything to prevent it.
- not being put on a general gyn ward, because the doctor thought about things like a fold-out bed & nicer room/privacy, view of trees out the window, as well as having midwives and the right staff around in case of complications.

Distressing for L (and me):

- not being asked for consent for examination/autopsy
- having to phone the hospital to find out if there was a body (eg. we knew bub had been taken away but not where to or what happened & were worried cremation might happen without our consent, or baby treated as medical waste. please, please make sure you know when the cut-off's are for development changes. I'm having to read PD2005_341 right now so I can tell L what someone should've told us while we were in hospital. Worrying that our baby might be treated as medical waste isn't helpful!
- we didn't get seen by a doctor before being discharge, didn't get information on whether L could have a bath (no),
- L having morphine forced on her before she had confirmation that it'd be okay for bub if bub still had a heartbeat.
- L not being given enough morphine because she didn't know that the aim was to make her as comfortable as possible under the circumstances, instead she was in heaps of pain that could've been avoided by more generous dosing.
- Privacy - we lost baby in ER and with a lot of blood around and nothing on the bottom half, it was very distressing for L to have abusive/aggressive guys wandering around shouting and staring and looking at her. Simply closing the curtain every time and being aware that curtains needed to be kept closed was good
- L having me kicked out for a speculum exam - as long as the partner is helpful (emotionally/physically) and isn't going to regret it or faint, having him at the head end can be useful. Saying stuff like "the most important job you can do is to hold the curtain closed" is distressing to the guy.
- Lies - see above. We'd have preferred to hear "I'd like to do this in private, please could you step outside" from the hospital stuff"
- cleaning/meal staff being insensitive, loud etc - having a slab of meat (not properly rested so still bloody) dropped in front of my wife was pretty horrible for her (and nearly caused me to totally lose it). she had no appetite and the smell/look was the worst thing imaginable at that time.
- no privacy before the first scan, being stared at by people who were heavily and joyously pregnant because of the nightgown/drip/crying, staff being loud with questions.
- ultrasound tech being insensitive, obviously no heartbeat but wouldn't say so, baby underdeveloped and wouldn't say so - we just had to suffer in silence looking at the monitor and seeing what he wouldn't tell us, then being given a report with the info in to take to someone else.
- not being actually told we'd lost the baby until 25 minutes after we'd figured it out for ourselves.
- 2nd ultrasound midwives were trying to monitor blood loss so wife wasn't covered, just had pads..she got told to walk to the scanner and would've bled all over the floor - got offered 2 gowns for this and had to explain clearly that that was the issue.
- not being told/set up well with disposal bin for pads and enough stocks, so having to explain again and again that we were having to keep them to monitor blood loss/clotting/product an could someone examine them
- same with toilet, we were told not to flush it until it had been examined but we ended up with an un-flushed toilet for 2 hours waiting for a midwife to decide to deal with it (4 requests), with...well, what you'd probably call products of conception in it. really not what we needed right then.
- being kicked out on thursday morning very abruptly - they made it clear that they needed the bed and L didn't need medical attention so she wasn't welcome (person in charge of the ward) and that her discharge papers were at the front desk. we'd been told a doctor would come and see us to talk about what happened next for us, and the night before were told to stay as long as L needed, that she was grey, had lost a lot of blood and needed to be carefully monitored. I guess that's more of a staff change /handover problem than anything else, but it could've been avoided.
- not told if L could have naproxen/naprosyn/voltaren etc, and being told that she preferred panadeine forte because it had more codeine in it. more than '0' codeine in it just annoyed L as it was a meaningless answer. later we found out the answer was yes, but it needed to be cautious use because it could increase bleeding.
- not having pain relief levels checked. panadeine forte every 6 hours wasn't enough pain relief for L but it'd been arbritarily decided on and she felt like however often she asked she wouldn't get given anything more. coming from a family of nurses, I know that the squeaky wheel gets the oil, but after losing our baby L and I weren't up to being squeaky.

sorry if this was upsetting to read - hope it was helpful. I've only thought of about half of it, but please PM me if you want to know more.

thanks for caring enough about us all to post here - I'm really impressed by that.

best,

John.

JFH. I'm so sorry to read your post. I have no words of comfort but know that you will find support for both yourself and wife to de brief.

John ... I am so saddened by the loss of your precious baby ... a loss still breaks the heart irrespective of when it occurs. Go gently and take as much time as you need to mourn such an inconceivable but all to real tragedy.

I have a few things to add but most others have pretty much covered it.
When we had our little girl the midwife was wonderful except she lied to me. I know she was trying to help, make it less traumatic whatever but she lied to me and i knew she did and it was later confirmed by the post mortem. ( if you want more details PM me) Please as much as it may seem like the kinder option dont lie to the parents you need to be honest. i also had the Ob refer to my baby as a fetus and another midwife told me that it was a horrible thing to happen but imagine how much harder it would be at full term... i couldnt believe she said that.. i know my DD was only 18 weeks but she was still my DD and i still loved her.
I guess the things that really help are just being there for the mother/ father in anyway they want you there... I was happy to have someone with me all the time because DH was trying to deal with this too and he wasnt as supportive as i needed him to be ( i dont hold that against him, it was his baby too ) Being honest and open. you dont have to be too open but if the parents are asking questions it is because they want to know the truth.
The fact that you started this thread shows that you are miles ahead of some already. Nothing beats a person who genuinely cares that you are going through the worst day of your life

That you all for your replies. Your information is so helpful for me to try and support parents/families. I am so sorry for your losses :hug:. No-one should ever have to ever say goodbye to their gorgeous little baby.
Thank you for sharing your experiences, both good and bad, with me.

"we're unable to give you a d&c, you'll need to be put into labour because essentially, your baby has started to, well, rot" is never a good opening line.

a baby is a baby. stillborn or alive. i would treat every baby the same. lots of gushing over how beautiful and perfect they are.

i'm sure you'll do fantastic. you seem to show alot of compassion already :)

I have had a 2nd tri loss too, though to be honest, I really don't remember alot about what happened after being told my baby has no heartbeat. I was only 18 at the time and I think I have blocked alot of it out to save my own sanity. I don't really remember giving birth, I remember being given the gels and then pethadine for pain which made me vomit, and to add to that having contractions, besides losing our baby, I was fairly miserable. I remember lots of tears from me, DH, my friend and my mum, but I don't really remember the care I recieved, or even how long I was in hospital. I think I might need to ask DH. Maybe try to get my hospy records. There's alot of things I regret, and I wish I could remember more, but forgetting is how I coped I guess.

I really jsut wanted to say to you all that I am so sorry for your losses. It is such a sad and tragic thing that any parent has to say goodbye to their baby, no matter what gestation or age. You are all very brave for sharing your stories. :hug:

Liviam, it sounds to me like you will be an awesome midwife. If you are concerned about such things at this stage then when you go through the process with a family, I think you will be a wonderful comfort to them. Thankyou for being so thoughtful and heartfelt.

Thankyou for asking us parents what worked/didn't work.
Context of me- still born baby at full term, cord accident, spontaneous vaginal birth.

Reading of other parents experiences, i feel fortunate at how we were treated.
I was at the major womens hospy in WA -King Edward, where they deal with the majority of high risk and still births, so have learnt a lot over the years. I think it would be worth you getting into contact with their 'peri-natal loss midwife', the chaplain services, and the social worker there. I'm pretty sure they have some kind of education programme for midwives dealing with baby loss.


Some points-
# Treat it as a live birth/labor- because it IS still ... birth (iykwim?).
The mother needs to feel empowered-and if there are no problems the mother needs to know that her body can do this. IF it's safe for the mum, keep intervention minimal. It is one of the only things she will get to do for her child- birth them.

# If the mother states at the beginning that she doesn't want drug pain relief/ epi etc, then don't keep offering it!
Offer massage, hot packs, shower or bath etc and talk her through it.
I have read of many mums whose biggest regret was having the peth/morphine/epi because they were too groggy to remember the birth and the precious moments they had with baby. Make the mum aware of this early on- that they may want to be 'alert' when bub is born. Even though I had always planned on having a drug free birth, I got scared approaching transition that I wouldn't handle the emotional trauma, and had a pushy midwife trying to talk me into morphine. I relented and agreed but hadn't had it yet- luckily my personal midwife came back from her break just in time and reassured me that she'd talk me through it. I am grateful for that, because now I have clear memory of my baby being placed on my chest, and all the time I had with him I was lucid.

* When babe is born, treat as a 'live born'. Skin to skin cuddles is still important!
Ask the mum (before transition!) if she will want the baby wrapped or skin to skin for cuddles when born. I was a bit freaked at first and wanted wrapped, but got over it and soon unwrapped him. That hour of skin to skin time I had with him straight after birth was invaluable. Help and encourage the mum to have this time.
DO NOT WHISK BABY AWAY!!!!
Coo over baby, comment on their cute hands etc, treat with the tenderness and care you would a live baby.

*Include the father or partner- make sure they have cuddle time/skin to skin.


*Let parents bathe and weigh baby.
Another precious parenting moment. One of our fav pics is of Daddy weighing bub, and looking proudly down at his big bonny boy on the scales. I found the patches of skin maceration on my boy distressing and wasn't able at first to join my DH in bathing him. But the midwife who was helping DH, kept cooing over bub,and commenting on how beautiful he was, till I got the courage to take over. So so grateful for that now.


*Encourage parents to stay in hospy with bub as long as they want.
It's the only time they will ever have, and they need that time to build memories to last forever. Do not rush them, sit them down and make them realise how important this time is (we were in a blur post birth, as is normal, and the hospy chaplain is the one who stressed how important it was to stay, and encouraged us to stay over night).

*Make sure all staff who will be entering room know of the situation, and get them to ackowledge the baby
I loved that every Dr and nurse that came in asked if they could say hello to our bub (when we weren't holding him, he was in a crib next to me). I loved that Dr's bent over the crib and commented on how beautiful he was.
I also would get scared that the staff who delivered our food didn't know our baby had died, and they didn't seem comfortable being in the room. So if possible get someone else to deliver the food.

*Read SIDS literature on 'what not to say to grieving parents'
'Teddy love club', and "Sands' also have literature about this.

*Encourage the parents to invite their family and friends to hospital to meet and and hold their baby


*Take photoes for the parents- of everything!
You'll hear this again and again- pictures are precious and we all wish we had more!
Take pics of them bathing, weighing, dressing baby. Encourage them to get a professioanl photographer to come to the hospital- I wish I had done that. There is actually a national group of photographers who do this for free- my brain just can't remember what they're called! Wish my hospy had their info, i only heard about them after.


Thankyou for taking the time at reading all of this, and caring!
xx

The midwife thats was with me when we 1st found out she was so great she left the room and let me and my partner have some time together before coming back in and when she came back i could see that this had affected her too her eyes red and puffy she came everywhere with me till end of shift and came and told us she was back the next day she was there whenever i needed her she didn't even try to give us answers as for us there are none but just being there to listen was great.

the one that delivered Angel was very good to she explained everything and then after commented on how brave i was and how well i done and how proud she was of me.

Only 2 things i can't get over i never got to see more than Angels face i dont know what her feet or hands look like i just want to be able to have her hand in mine but its too late now.On the day i checked out at change of shifts a new girl come bouncing in while i was talking to social worker and she Congradulated me. The SW told her to leave and check notes before coming back i didn't see her again.

Hope this helps

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Take pics of them bathing, weighing, dressing baby. Encourage them to get a professioanl photographer to come to the hospital- I wish I had done that. There is actually a national group of photographers who do this for free- my brain just can't remember what they're called! Wish my hospy had their info, i only heard about them after.

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The Australian Community Of Child Photographers :) I didn't know about them until after, either, but we were able to get someone sent out to Ianto's funeral. (I know some people here might know the trouble I've since had in getting those photos, but I assure you, it was just that one photographer. Everyone else is pis$y at her too.)

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