Mummy Guilt Culture - Protecting or Patronising

There's something that's been bothering me for a while now. I read this article on Analytical Armadillo and realised that is what it is.

I knew formula feeding increased the risk of SIDs - I didn't realise by how much, though. Here is a really important piece of information about keeping our children safe and it's not widely disseminated. Why? To protect our feelings. That peeves me. I breastfeed anyway, so maybe you'd think I'm feeling smug - I'm not. I don't like being patronised. And I don't see how we can make good decisions without good information (I can't see any mention of breastfeeding on the SIDs and kids site, for eg).

Anyway, my gripe isn't with this, per se, but the idea that we need to sugar coat the truth or keep it quiet so as not to make mothers guilty. It's a crock.

I've come across information since becoming a parent that has contradicted my previous thinking and made me question my decisions. Sometimes that makes me feel bad

I think: What do they know? That's crap.
Then: How dare they preach at me.
Then: .... Damn, I really wish I'd known that sooner.

But we did then what we knew best and now we know better, we do better.... Right? Or maybe the new information doesn't matter, because some other circumstance in your life trumps it. So you still made the best decision anyway.
We're all big girls, aren't we? We can deal with this.

I had an argument about this with a tutor at uni. When discussing the importance of early life for lifelong health breastfeeding wasn't mentioned (things like early exposure to alcohol, housing, education were talked about instead). When I questioned this I was told it was too controversial an issue. Considering this was a lecture aimed at healthcare workers I was appalled. The same thing happened later on when we talked about SIDS. Breastmilk wasn't mentioned and when I raised it there were rolled eyes because apparently this was my pet subject. Nothing to do with the fact that it is an important factor.

Until healthcare workers are comfortable talking about the evidence of a "contentious" issue like this then I don't see that there is much hope for everyone else.

i think that mothers should be told that breastfeeding reduces the rates of SIDs. is that what you mean?
i would like to know the truth so that i can make informed decisions.

Oh amen. I agree. Like the whole, breastfeeding reduces x, y and z in babies. Uh, no, formula feeding increases the risk. That's not having a go, that's fact. How parents are supposed to make informed decisions when the information is being sugar coated to cater to those easily who are easily offended confuses me.

I agree on that internal dialogue, too. I think most people's first reaction is defence. I'll give an example.

I chose to delay solids a little for DD. I did a LOT of research about it and came to the conclusion that I agreed more with the delaying of solids than early introduction re allergies. Yesterday, DD had an allergic reaction to banana. Now, I am left questioning my decision, and maybe even entertaining the possibility that I chose wrong :( Sucks to even consider that but hey, I'm open to accepting facts over my own feelings of inadequacy or whatever.

Patronising. And breeding ignorance. Just because the information is out there doesn't mean people can't make a decision for themselves, but heck at least give people the option. Without that option people think they have only one decision. And in some cases it's not the right one.

I can't tell you how awful I felt when I first found BB. When I found out the way I birthed my daughter wasn't the only way, and the outcome could have been prevented. That I could have had more say. And years later when I moved and found a new MCHN who cried when she read my history, my struggles with breastfeeding that all stemmed from a paed who had no idea. That also could have been prevented. The PND I had, that I didn't know I had at the time... the support I never had... all these things. Information healed me. Information helped me.

And the thing that peeves me ultimately is that they don't sugar coat, they have an agenda. There is more information available (and sprouted) about the dangers of VBAC than there is the dangers of CS, the phsyical implications, the impact on a bonding, feeding, PND etc. Yet the first thing sprouted is, "What about the scar? Won't it rupture." Yes this does happen and it is a valid risk. But it should be up to the individual! I don't have a problem with what people choose to do with their bodies, or their babies... but let them CHOOSE. And the let the information be readily available.

Yep. I would rather know the facts. Sometimes they suck and they hurt because i wish i had known sooner. Sometimes i kinda knew but chose to do it anyway. I might feel defensive and put my hackles up but I need to deal with it myself and not be pussy-footed around.

Honestly, it's not just parenting choices that people raise their hackles over.

My experience is people often don't want to hear the truth if it is uncomfortable for them, or contradicts their pre-conceived ideas or emotional/physical needs/wants or life choices.

I don't think it's helpful to tell someone the 'facts' when they are already having problems or after they have found a 'solution' to their problems because they are struggling enough as it is and being told the facts at that point is not in any way helpful at all. What I think SHOULD happen is making sure that they get told the facts long before problems happen, ie, while they are still pregnant. If they already KNOW the facts, then they have the opportunity to make more informed decisions and this is where the ball is being dropped time and time again. I see women on forums and IRL who obsess more over the colour of their bugaboo or the nursery during their pregnancies than they do about making a breastfeeding relationship work. It's something that is taken for granted as 'oh yeah, I'll try but if I have problems I'll just use formula' because the perception is still out that that it is OK and will not cause any adverse effects. And for the most part it doens't, but who wants to be in the percentage of people where it has been the worst thing they have ever done? But FFS! we even worry more about the type of cot bedding we use as a prevention of sids than we worry about feeding being a factor!

ETA - and if you have to sugar coat something to 'protect' someones feelings, then you're already too bloody late! As it stands we only pay lip service to the issue. You never see on a Kids and Sids ad on TV about how important it is to breastfeed to reduce the rate of SIDS, nooooo, just the stand lines about smoking and bedding. So it's often a case of protecting those who are already going through it (meaning using formula) and patronising those who haven't (the still pregnant).

Yes, that's true Trill. If parents are already committed to formula feeding then this isn't 'helpful' information right now... but it might be for later, or when they're talking with other parents.

And Trav - absolutely! Health carers should know all the facts. That is terrible. They need to know this and work harder to support mothers and infants.


And it's not just breastfeeding & SIDs - that's just the example in this instance. It's a whole range of things - and there's this particular emphasis on not making mothers feel guilty as a rationale for not sharing information. Are we mothers so precious we need special protection from facts?

With both my babies I was pushed toward an induction. First time I caved, 2nd I didn't. Both times (different OBs) I was told of the risks of waiting - STILLBIRTH - but never the risks of the induction. The very real risks to me and my baby. The still not fully understood long-term effects of these drugs on the unborn baby....

The idea that there are agendas at work worries me too. Who is controlling the information and why? Is it really about protecting people... or protecting industries? Now I sound like a mad conspiracy theorist. ;)

I agree with Lenny - sometimes it hurts to hear I might be wrong. I don't like that feeling at all. But I need to hear it if that's the truth. I think it's pretty human to dislike feeling that our beliefs are being challenged, as N2L says.

My current favourite quote:
Most people would rather die than think: many do. Bertrand Russell

information is power

but despite the internet, increased education for women (i'm talking historically here), it is STILL very hard to find out accurate, current UNBIASED information. You ask ten sources, you get ten different answers. Everyone has their own bias.

i keep thinking of the phrase "the personal is political".
SO many decisions we make, including how to birth and parent, become controversial, if we are not doing what the majority of the population, seem to be doing.

i assumed medical and child nurse people would know stacks about breastfeeding, and that was my initial point, when seeking help. Eventually i realised, that was the last place, i was going to get info re breastfeeding. Sad isn't it? I had medical people telling me i was doing the wrong thing for my child, by bf-ing a 19month old. That i should have weaned her at three months old! Why? because that's what their hospital (sleep school) protocols said. SO much misinformation out there.

I have thought this for ages.

A number of years ago it came up that there is a an increase in the rates of depression amongst those born via c-section. There was such a hoo haa about it, a lot of defensiveness and plenty of the "oh, but my child etc" examples. I was one of the few that thought "great, I need to know that info" Why? Even though I had no choice of the c-section, it is handy for me, as someone who suffers from depression, to know that my children will have an increased risk. I don't see it as something to beat myself up over, but something to arm myself for the future.

We can choose how we take on that information. Even though we cannot change the past, it can help us with the future.

Yes, of course, people need to know that and to not publicise that information IS patronising.

I struggled to BF both my girls. DD1 was fed expressed breast milk for the first two months, for DD2 I relactated and she had a mixture of breast and formula from the age of nine weeks to five months.

Personally, I also found the misinformation that if you give bottles you will never get them back to breast incredibly damaging. It guaranteed that I didn't even try to get DD1 back on to the breast after having no luck in the first two weeks. It also meant for DD2 I let my milk dry as I also couldn't attach her but tried again at about seven weeks and hey presto ... but I had to relactate.

It's like LCs think that if they give you the green light to give a bottle you will stop trying breast altogether because you'll find it easier, it's like they don't trust your willpower and treat you like a little kid. Makes me so cross.

So I'm all for giving people all the information and letting them decide for themselves.

I wish I had have known this when I was breastfeeding. My husband had a massive accident when DD was just 9 weeks old and, with all the stress, I gradually started weaning at 4 months until, by 6 months she was completely formula fed. If I had have known this info I may have tried harder to keep up with the BF. It is easier to say in retrospect though. I would have at least liked the info so that I could have made more of an informed decision.

I am very cynical but have you noticed the things that get sugarcoated or tip toed, around usually have a product or service that can be sold attached? Lobby groups anyone?? Breastfeeding - bottles and formula, Csections and inductions - drugs and anaesthetics, surgeon's fees etc. There is money to be made from neglecting to give full information to mothers.

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information is power

but despite the internet, increased education for women (i'm talking historically here), it is STILL very hard to find out accurate, current UNBIASED information. You ask ten sources, you get ten different answers. Everyone has their own bias.

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Hope I'm OK to reply to this (thanks for the link to my blog by the way :))
You're definitely right about accurate unbiased information, and the different answers.
I find it helps to try and logically find the biological norm ie we know human infants are built to receive human milk - therefore we need evidence that the alternative is safe and doesn't increase risks, rather than trying to prove breastmilk is "better". Imagine if someone invented artificial blood next year - would we want research showing real blood was better?

The same goes for a lot of things baby related I find eg controlled crying - pretty sure cavewoman without a clock nor any pressure from social norms, who would have fed LOTS at night due to dangers during the day, wouldn't have practised sleep training. Therefore we need extensive, solid evidence this isn't going to cause longer term psychological damage.

I'm just blogging at the moment about how science flips language, how the media mis report studies and how in turn this makes it very difficult to unpick the facts.

AA

I think I'm one that kind of 'sugar coats' when others bring up these topics about their own children. Eg at Mother's Group people speak about when to wean, or basically when to introduce formula. Most have introduced formula by 6 months. I'm happy to say I won't be weaning until DD chooses to and I give my reasons, but I don't feel comfortable saying something along the lines of "ideally mothers should exclusively breastfeed for six months, with the child naturally weaning, and I don't believe formula should be introduced as it is unnecessary and increases the risk of health problems now and down the track."

I don't want to be seen to be judging other mothers, because I'm not. They can make their own choice, but I sometimes feel as though when I present facts that are opposing the choice they want to make, I'm seen as preachy. This happened in a discussion of turning baby seats - my DD is the only one still rear facing, and when I said it was because of the risk of internal decapitation and that I'd leave her rear facing as long as possible, the response I got was "well the law says 6 months, so if s/he wants to sit up then that's what I'll do. S/he's happier now s/he can see out the window." I just left it, but I certainly felt as though I my opinion was not at all wanted!

P.s. I was super excited to see aa reply to this :lol:

Sent from my GT-P7510

Eta: Then again, I'm not a health professional. I certainly feel that health professionals should give all the facts so that we can make the best possible choices for our little ones.

Armadillo is in the house!

I really hope that the more we talk about biological norms the closer we will come to 'flipping' things back again. The language we use is really important.

Kaytee, IRL, i was usually in situations, where i was the ONLY mum breastfeeding, using MCN, delaying rearfacing carseats, not doing CIO etc etc. i really relate to what you said.

i did not have the energy to be the educator of the mums around me, and i quickly learnt, no-one was interested in other ways of doing things, the amount of aggression i encountered if i mentioned anything else - quickly got me to keep quiet, and just plug away at doing what i was doing with my baby.

it took all my energy to maintain my own beliefs WITH MY OWN CHILD, as i copped so much flack from health profs, strangers in shops, let alone people i actually knew (to wean from five months onwards, to use disposable nappies, to use CIO, etc etc) IRL. i had to find some kind of support for what i was doing, which i found online, to keep me sane.

I never preached using MCN to anyone, but i noticed two mums who must have watched me at mum's group, later used MCN with their 2nd babies, so who knows, maybe i had an impact in a quiet way. My tack was "don't bring up subject yourself, but if anyone shows interest and sounds positive - then share info". I learnt "not to get into it" with aggressive people who just wanted to "take a shot".

it was hardest when i had a baby with sleep issues at 19 months old, when i was getting "put her on formula and it'll all right itself" from all quarters (IRL).

I 100 & 10% agree with you.

Based on my knowledge now I believe my son has autism because of me. You know what, that hurts. It certainly makes me wish I had known more before and I could have avoided him going through what he is experiencing. BUT it is also empowering. Because I am open to that knowledge I understand WHY is autistic and HOW we can fix it.

If I could turn back time, I would. But I can't so there is no point wallowing in guilt or denying the truth so we just get on with making things better.

Sorry feeding at keys (fak) so I have to be brief.

Guilt comes from judgement, either perceived or real, and until we can spread information in an unbiased way there will always be an implied judgement about the information. A breastfeeding mum can't be unbiased about the risks of formula any more than a formula feeding mum is unbiased about the difficulties of breastfeeding.

I encounter this with vaccination and home birth and many other parenting decisions.

My main issue is that breastfeeding is the MINORITY, so the message about its benefits has to be loud. But who is able to give that information in an unbiased way. I'm so sick of hearing about the 'breastapo' or breastfeeding nazis (aside from the insulting aligning of breastfeeding advocates and mass murderers) because the insinuation is that to be impassioned is to be militaristic and dictatorial - because no one likes being 'told' what to do.

If we just looked at what was biologically normal and accepted that, we might come a long way in parenting, and then those who 'have' to choose hospital births or formula are actually doing it because there is a real need, rather than just a cultural assumption that 'thats what you do'.

Hi Armadillo and welcome!

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I think I'm one that kind of 'sugar coats' when others bring up these topics about their own children. Eg at Mother's Group people speak about when to wean, or basically when to introduce formula. Most have introduced formula by 6 months. I'm happy to say I won't be weaning until DD chooses to and I give my reasons, but I don't feel comfortable saying something along the lines of "ideally mothers should exclusively breastfeed for six months, with the child naturally weaning, and I don't believe formula should be introduced as it is unnecessary and increases the risk of health problems now and down the track."

I don't want to be seen to be judging other mothers, because I'm not. They can make their own choice, but I sometimes feel as though when I present facts that are opposing the choice they want to make, I'm seen as preachy. This happened in a discussion of turning baby seats - my DD is the only one still rear facing, and when I said it was because of the risk of internal decapitation and that I'd leave her rear facing as long as possible, the response I got was "well the law says 6 months, so if s/he wants to sit up then that's what I'll do. S/he's happier now s/he can see out the window." I just left it, but I certainly felt as though I my opinion was not at all wanted!

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Kaytee, I don't think you sugar coated things, I think you realised that the group you were with wouldn't be receptive to a debate on the subject, so you gave your reasons for doing what you do and left it at that. Sugar coating would have been to say "Oh yeah, using formula is just as good as breastmilk" and validate their choices for them.

I totally agree with using anything you are told, even if it hurts, for future reference. However, I still think there is a time and a place to share that knowledge. I never felt guilt about the choices I made, but there was still an internal struggle to come to terms with the choices if that makes sense. So if anyone had of said to me at that point in time when things were still a bit raw, I would have told them to bugger off. Not that I wouldn't appreciate being told, but rather that I have too much going on to accept the information. But at the same time I wouldn't like things sugar coated or be patronised, I would prefer they are just not said at the time.

Wow, I wish I had known that before. Yet another thing to tell my Mum and sister when they tell me to "just give him/her a bottle" next time. People need to know these things! We do so many other things to reduce SIDS risk (provide education I mean), why not this?

Gigi, I'm with you - I tend to step back and if people show interest in MCN I'll give them the info they need to get going. Even though I wasn't a successful breastfeeder with DD I have educated myself so friends who have had babies recently I have been able to help with tips to increase supply etc... I just hope I can be as supportive of myself next time!

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Patronising. And breeding ignorance.

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Agree. I had no idea that FF increased the risk of SIDS so I totally agree. How can I make an informed decision based on wrong information? I can remember looking at the SIDS website when DS was born to make sure I was doing the right thing. Even though I did BF him, I'm annoyed that I might have made a different decision based on incomplete info.

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My current favourite quote:
Most people would rather die than think: many do. Bertrand Russell

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Love it :) I might have to steal that one ;)

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So I'm all for giving people all the information and letting them decide for themselves.

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Agree. As per above.

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The same goes for a lot of things baby related I find eg controlled crying - pretty sure cavewoman without a clock nor any pressure from social norms, who would have fed LOTS at night due to dangers during the day, wouldn't have practised sleep training. Therefore we need extensive, solid evidence this isn't going to cause longer term psychological damage.

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I have never thought about raising babies in terms of how a cavewoman would have done it. That's strange since I often think about other aspects of life in this way especially in regards to diet, exercise & entertainment. I will be incorporating this into my thinking more often now.

Redrobinridinghood - I share your cynical view. Money makes everything different. The cavemen didn't have money.

Though I have to say that it perplexes me when people say that BFing is in the minority and they are surrounded by people at their mothers groups who don't BF or wean early.

That's absolutely NOT my experience in my sociodemographic. It's the norm to breasfeed - the message IS getting through to my peers. Ten out of ten of the mums in my mothers group tried to BF. Two of us 'gave up' early because of hideous problems and lack of support. The remaining eight breastfed for much longer than six months, I think all breasfed for over a year. So I don't know if giving this message will make much difference. I think this type of message will be preaching to the converted - but that's not to say that it shouldn't be added to the mix.

fionas, the statistics on breastfeeding are pretty clear.
from 2010 infant feeding survey

24% exclusive breastfeeding at 5 months
60% of babies receiving some breast milk at 6 months

I'm not sure what the figure is at 12 months, but I doubt it's more than 10%

So 40% of babies are fully weaned within the first 6 months and 76% have started weaning within the first 5 months. Probably at least 90% fully weaned within the first 12 months. That's a lot of bottle feeding.

I'm not doubting the stats MadB, I'm sure they're true. What I'm saying is that's not my experience in my sociodemographic so putting my old communications manager hat on I would have to say that the message is not being correctly targeted if there are groups where BF is almost 100% the norm and in other groups the rates drop considerably. I'd like to see a breakdown by sociodemographics because the messages should be tailored. One size does not fit all.

I'm sure I've seen stats that those in higher socio-economic groups have higher BFing rates.

I found this article around guilt and motherhood.l worth a read
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yes, rates are higher for older maternal age and higher education

ETA: Patronising

Personally I am not keen on E. Badinter - I do actually agree with her views on food while pregnant (I read the info and chose to take some small risks in having a coffee a day, the occasional wine, and only avoided soft serve icecream), but really dislike her views on breastfeeding in particular and feminism in general particularly disliking these statements

"Badinter's theory about breastfeeding goes to the very heart of her argument against modern motherhood: that it destroys women's independence"

"Between the protection of trees and the liberty of women, my choice is clear," she stated recently. "It may seem derisory, but powdered milk, jars of baby food and disposable nappies were all stages in the liberation of women.”

The liberation of women in my mind is all about women being empowered in making their own decisions and not giving two hoots about other peoples opinions - powdered milk, jars of baby food and disposable nappies are not liberating in my book at all - maybe they are liberating to some people but I don't believe that "things" really liberate us, is more thoughts and ideals.

I don't use any of those, I don't subscribe to mummy guilt and I don't feel any loss of independence at all (as I sit here feeding my DS while typing with both hands I feel very liberated actually :-) ),or any pressure to 'be' anything apart from what I want to be. It seems to be a family trait to make informed decision but not care what other people think, have noticed it in both my siblings, I hope that I can some how manage to convey this to my two as I think it certainly makes being a parent far easier.

I like some of the points in that article about working and being a mum, but none of those are by Elisabeth Badinter. We have been talking about the article a bit at MG because one of us is French and in her words "dislikes Elisabeth Badinter with a passion" and also finds all this stuff in the media about "perfect French children" a bit comical.

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I wish I had have known this when I was breastfeeding. My husband had a massive accident when DD was just 9 weeks old and, with all the stress, I gradually started weaning at 4 months until, by 6 months she was completely formula fed. If I had have known this info I may have tried harder to keep up with the BF. It is easier to say in retrospect though. I would have at least liked the info so that I could have made more of an informed decision.

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I also know about having serious upheaval in the very early weeks of a being a new mum. I'm sorry you had to go through it. The thing is even if you had known this information, you may well have still weaned - and that would have still been ok, because you would have done what was, at the time, necessary for you and your family. But for some reason you were deemed to fragile and precious to be given the truth - and allowed to make your own mind up. That's not right! You (and me, and everyone else) should be told more, allowed to be educated about these things, and then left to decide on our own. We are, after all, the ones who have to live with and possibly repeatedly justify, our decision to.

I hope you don't mind me using you as my example (:))

And it's not just breastfeeding, but many other aspects of our lives. I was fascinated to learn about the new information regarding 'The first nine months" - how a person's live can be irrevocably shaped during pregnancy. It's great to know this stuff. Would it have changed the way i behaved while i was pregnant? Probably. Bring on knowledge and education. Then let us decide for ourselves.

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Eta: Then again, I'm not a health professional. I certainly feel that health professionals should give all the facts so that we can make the best possible choices for our little ones.

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You are right. Good on you for not rocking the boat at your mum's groups! However, if someone in you mum's group asked you specifically for help or advice, then i'm sure you'd be able to gently let them know all the things you have learned.
We need the information from our medical professionals and our governing bodies etc. It needs to be published a easily accessible. (Funding anyone?)

I subscribe to the belief that you choose how you feel. If you choose to feel guilty well that's your choice. No-one is standing over you with a rifle saying "you didn't BF. You must feel guilty." Turn it around, say instead "I chose to formula feed because it was best for my baby in my circumstances."

I agree wysiwyg. Badinter seems to be the extreme opposite. I almost feel guilty for not placing my kids in childcare from 3 months, giving them formula & pureeing some apples. Almost, lol! Those quotes stood out to me too.

I guess the point is not to feel guilty as long as you have made an informed decision and weighed up the risks vs benefits for your own particular situation. If information is being withheld as in the case of the increased risk of SIDS for FF vs BF because it might make some mothers feel guilty, then it is not fair to those who are trying to make an informed choice right now. As a PP said, we are all big girls, we can handle it.

Gigi, you sound very similar to me and my Mother's Group! I'm the only one doing a lot of things, DH calls me the "group hippy" lol. I generally do the same as you - I won't jump in if people are talking amongst themselves about something if they do it differently to me, but if they ask I give whatever info they're asking about.

I've been thinking about this a little more, and I reckon some of the problem is that the info needs to be given early. E.g. Our ante-natal class was run by a fantastic community midwife who outlined every reason why breastfeeding is the normal way to feed a baby, and gave us all the facts about formula. No one felt judged, she was just helping us make a decision about how to feed our baby.

Another example, yesterday DH and I went to buy a new car seat for DH's car (so he can pick up DD from childcare when she starts). We had planned to get one that suits from 6 months/8kgs until 7 years. Technically she fits, she's 8 months & 8.5kgs, and then we won't need to get another one later. But the woman explained to us the facts about forward facing seats, and how seats are now manufactured with shoulder heights/limits. DD is still a cm or two too short according to the lines on the seat, so we chatted with the woman, and decided to get another convertible seat. I think, if we'd already gone and put her forward facing and were then told the dangers of it, we'd be more likely to get defensive about it.

Sent from my GT-P7510

Of all the information out there regarding SIDS (i read the brouchers in my bounty bag) i, to this day was not aware of the increased risks with formual. I have breastfed all of my children, the youngest one to wean was 13 months. Good old BellyBelly once again has been a wonderful tool to enable people/parents/mothers to have access to information they may have otherwise never known. WHY would 'they' not tell someone this? Why HIDE it? It's a horrible thought but in ways it makes me feel like i'm a puppet to someone a whole lot bigger than i'll ever be. As a group maybe we'd be able to get somewhat close to challenging these b@$tard$??

The guilt part of this makes me quite angry. I'm one who can lay a lot of guilt on myself and how i'm able to care for my children, if i choose to lay guilt on myself that is my choice but don't hold information back incase i do. I love seeking knowledge and when it comes to my children and their health and well being in can't get enough (DH and i aren't too far behind that either :)) so i would much rather know than not know. Knowledge is power.

As has already been mentioned you do wonder about the agenda of allowing us to know and not know certain things and as always it would most definately come down to the $$$$.

Since becoming a member of BB i have learnt so much about life as a whole. I too am one who gets the feeling i need to tip toe around topics such as breastfeeding and car seats with friends unsure how they may take the information. I don't want it to seem that i am judging their decisions but if they actually knew the information for themselves because it's readily available then maybe i wouldn't have to feel like such a minority amongst them. There's a part of me that feels obligated to at least say what i know but then a part of me that thinks maybe i'm best to let them figure it out for themselves.

So glad i found this thread, it has been such an informative read. So much intelligence amoungst us all, helping eachother to become well informed parents/women/human beings.

Thanks ladies :)

Great thread MadB!

I have found similar issues with relation to drugs given during labour. we are told that they are 'safe', or that they are out of the system at time of birth, only to find out through later research (and a baby that almost died) that that is in fact, not always the case. I am beyond angry that I was given pethidine in labour (against my will but that is another thread) when my baby was no doubt going to be small birth weight (she was a couple of weeks early). The impact that it had on her was horrendous, and continued for much, much longer than the prescribed "5 hours" that I was told in the antenatal classes. in some cases it can take days.

We have issues in our MG about the different methods that babies make their way into the world. i found it funny how as i was having a HB with my second child, it was up for comments and questioning etc, but the girl having a VBAC (and then told baby was too big for her pelvis at 36 weeks had to go and plan her c-section) we werent allowed to investigate or even talk about.

I think Badinter has completely missed the point.

Gigi said somethikng quite powerful....INFORMATION is power, and coupled with Rouge's initial post, to choice is 100% my viewpoint.

I'll encourage any parent to breastfeed/express BF milk to their child-because its as natural as intended, but for those it doesn't suit (for what ever reason-be it natural or not-and I hold NO judgement) FF it is.

What an interesting thread for us all to read and consider. xx

I agree this is a great thread!

Yes Homebirth or natural birth is another area of misinformation. If I tell people of the RISKS of using pain medication or birthing in a hospital I am seen as judging them or just another hippy. But people constantly feel the need to criticize my birth choices without an open mind for discussion.

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Based on my knowledge now I believe my son has autism because of me. You know what, that hurts.

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But you know I think as parents we can be very quick to take the responsibility for stuff too, ie is something because of us, or because of the advice/information we were given by someone? Sure you can say we're the parents and the book stops with us, it's out job to be informed etc - but as we've discussed the facts are often not easy to find and unpick, many are brought up believing the medical profession are to be trusted implicitly (healthcare generally is v passive), as new parents how can anyone know that they need to question/research themselves and ultimately shouldn't those paid to support be held accountable?

The other thing is, sometimes things aren't down to fault from anyone. I have a good friend who did everything "right" - calm natural unmedicated homebirth, excl bf from birth, AP and yet her son has autism - no answers as to why. Gut healing seems to be having a HUGE impact for them - but as she said do I blame myself for taking lots of antibiotics, birth control pills when younger, being not bf myself etc and on some subjects just not knowing, or do I figure some things are just bigger than we are and instead look to the pharmas and the AF marketing etc.

AA