Induction and C/S aren't always bad

I love this forum.
I have gained wonderful knowledge and support here but I just have to type this.
The advocates for natural and non-medicalised birth hurt my feelings a lot.
Here is my story.
I fell pg at 40 to find myself ready to give birth for the first time when I was overweight but fit and healthy at 41. I was absolutely worried about giving birth at the tertiary hospital but our local hospital would not allow me to deliver there with my high BMI and because I was older. I was classified as "high risk" and cared for by the FMU at the tertiary hospital.
I understood my rights and I kept putting off the offered induction. at 41 weeks pg I went into the hospital for a check-up and discussion about an induction in two days to find my baby's heartbeat had stopped and she had died. Had I not resisted the induction I would have a living breathing 2 1/2 yr old with me now. So much for the specialised care helping!
I was induced to give birth to my dead baby. The induction was not the terrible labour we are constantly warned about but quite gentle and I had very little drugs which considering I was delivering a baby I knew wouldn't move or breathe was not too bad.
Having taken 8 years to get pg the first time I doubted we would get pg again but against all odds and with help with timing from a good FS we concieved our DS.
As my first baby had died at 41 weeks we were supported in our decision to induce this baby early 38 weeks 3 days.
The wonderful staff at the FMU tried everything to support me having another VB but with a living baby this time. My breech baby was turned twice by one of the obs......he turned back the first time! Then after he was turned the second time they tried to induce me with a ballon system (can't remember the fancy name for it!).
This didn't work and I ended up with a VERY scary emergency C/S.
Both births were scary and frightening.
My point is that I could have saved my DD's life if I'd accepted the offered induction at 40 weeks and I could have prevented the scary emergency C/S if I'd accepted a c/s was a good idea to deliver my DS early instead of trying for the live VB.
I do understand people are bullied into births they don't want but I wish I hadn't stood my guns like I did and I wish I hadn't known about my rights. I would not have two babies not just one in my arms and I would not have been a stuttering, shaking, terrified mess when my son was born because the C/S could have been better explained and managed and I could have had time to demand immediate skin on skin instead I had a distressed baby boy.
Perhaps sometimes these OB's DO know what they are talking about.

I am do sorry for your experiences Kateo and the loss of your baby.

I'm so sorry you lost your daughter.

I agree with you, inductions and cesarean sections have their place, just no way near as often as Ob's portray. There are risks in all forms of deliveries, particularly UNNECESSARY (being the key word) interventions. It is unfortunate that you lost your precious girl. Perhaps if you had the induction she would be here. Perhaps it may have gone pear shaped too. No one knows. But what-iffing about it will not bring her back :( the universe really sucks sometimes!

I'm really sorry for your loss. :hug:

It's so hard to know what the future will hold, so please don't blame yourself for wanting a natural birth. It's not your fault. Sadly, hindsight is always 20-20, and that can be difficult to deal with after the fact.

For me, my life was endangered by the cascade of interventions. An induction gone bad, a c/s I probably didn't need..... a secondary procedure as a result of a complication during surgery. I guess I am the flip-side. Wondering how it would've been had I avoided all of that. I'm now working on my fear of birth, and looking forward to a safe arrival next June.

I really think c/s has its place, but for me, I'm simply terrified of it for my own personal reasons. This doesn't negate your views however, this just highlights how different our own experiences have been and how different types of trauma shape and mould your reproductive future, and entire life. Thanks for posting this. Whilst I found it confronting, and scary, your points are valid and I'm glad you were brave enough to share.

Once again, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

Im really sorry for your loss Kateo :hug:

I have to agree with you though. There are a lot of people on here that are 'pro' natural birth and tend to get on their high horses quite a lot when anyone suggests induction and C section. It infuriates me when people push and push against things that an ob has said. My ob has been practising for 20 years and forgive me but im going to take his opinion more seriously over someone on here that 'thinks' they know best. A very similar thing that happened to you happened to my cousin and it was heartbreaking to watch her go through it.

Don't get me wrong I absolutely want a natural birth however, I will not go against the advice that my ob gives me. I think sometimes people need to think on here before posting their very one sided opinions, everyone is entitled to know their options and just because you had a fab natural birth doesnt mean the next person will.

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.

Questioning, analyzing and critiquing advice is what we all do in our lives every day. It is no different when we hear advice from professionals in any field. An opinion can only really be called that when the person has information to use to form their own idea. BB encourages this spread of information.

I refuse to admit I make anyone feel bad because of my experiences. With the information I share you have free will to form your own opinion about it. Any judgement you feel comes from yourself. And I think the original post makes that very clear.

Go gently on yourself. None of us can foresee the future :hug:

At the end of the day, we are the ones who have to live with our decisions. We absolutely should think them through, taking consideration equally to both sides of the coin to be fully informed. Of course, a perfect result is not guaranteed but at least whatever happens women should feel they real have done all they could and did explore all options.

I'm glad I chose homebirth. I'm glad for my sons sake I transferred to hospital. I'm disappointed I had the interventions I had though they were necessary. I will attempt homebirth again.

I'm sorry your gorgeous DD couldn't stay.

I also agree that induction and c/s aren't always bad.

If it weren't for medical care in a tertiary hospital, neither DS1 and I would be here today. Monash booked me an ICU bed on arrival because they were sure I was going to have a seizure. My brother (ICU doctor) looked after two women at the time I was at Monash, who were in a vegetative state because of pre-eclampsia. I was probably 1-2 hours away from that situation myself. If it wasn't for the medical care, I would be dead. I have absolutely no doubt about that.

If it wasn't for the decision to have a c/s, DS1 wouldn't be here either. His cord came off his placenta as they lifted him out of my (induced, but then emergency) c/s. This is an incredibly rare situation. The head ob (who was on duty supervising my c/s) has (now) seen it twice in 30 years. He would not have lasted another 5 minutes inside me. If it wasn't for his medical care, he would be dead. I have absolutely no doubt about that either.

I completely agree with you that inductions and c/s are not always bad. They save lives. They have saved mine and my son's.

And yet I find myself here, supporting the ethos of BB. I have been here for 8 years now - as a member, as a mod, and now a senior mod. I encourage everyone to educate themselves and find their own way in the often confronting and difficult decisions that they make in their lives. I fully support Kelly's idea of the power of womanhood - the ability of each of us to have decision making power over our own bodies. Educating women in relation to their own bodies and in relation to their own lives will bring a better outcome for all humanity. Kelly fully supported me throughout my DS2's difficult pregnancy and was unhesitatingly helpful during my recovery from my (eventually planned by my now XH) c/s. Sometimes I wish I had had the natural birth I wanted, but I know that the outcome for me (second c/s) was undoubtedly better for both myself and DS2.

What I am trying to say, in a roundabout way, is that each of us make our own choices. When we have knowledge, we are empowered. Yes, BB is often seen to be more about natural birth and breastfeeding etc. However, many of us (mods, seniors, admin included) have had c/s, or have chosen to bottle feed (I combined feeding for both my sons from birth), or have used daycare from early on (myself from 12 weeks for both my sons, including my premmie). There are many members who have made choices about their lives and those of their children and family, with the information they have to hand at the time.

More information/education = better choices. I believe that is what BB is all about.

I completely agree with what you have said Divvy. I think however there is a difference between people giving their opinion and then people pushing their views on you and telling you that you are wrong when you make your own decision. I posted a thread recently about induction given the difficult situation I was in with DH's work and I was floored by some of the responses I had. I know it wasn't just me that thought it was a little forceful and inappropriate as I had several members PM who were also shocked with some of the responses I received.

I have to admit there are things on here that I would like to ask, but feel like I cannot ask because of the one sided views that I would have to deal with.

If you're comfortable with your own choices then other people's opinions should slide off of you like water off a ducks back. As a PP said, we as individuals are the only ones who have to live with our decisions.

Amy_jellybean, I personally think you should be able to ask any question you need or want to ask. If people respond inappropriately or forcefully, PLEASE either report the post, or contact the appropriate moderators for that section. If you are after information from people who have been in that situation, then ask for responses only from those people. The moderating team are here to help - if there are issues, please bring them to our attention.

I support informed and educated choices. People told me I should definitely breastfeed. I chose not to, for my own reasons. People told me I should definitely VBAC. I chose not to, for my own reasons. People told me I should stay home and care for my small babies. I chose not to, for my own reasons. I am an educated and informed woman and I am not ashamed of my own choices. Looking back on them, I would absolutely make the same choices again.

Both Amy and Kateo - your choices are your own. I'll support you in your own decisions, whether or not I agree with them - because ultimately they are YOUR decisions which are right for YOU.

:

---

Both Amy and Kateo - your choices are your own. I'll support you in your own decisions, whether or not I agree with them - because ultimately they are YOUR decisions which are right for YOU.

---

Thank you Divvy. I feel the same way, I will support anyones choice even if it isn't the one I would make for myself. I just wish there were other people on here with the same thoughts.

I know Obs tend to portray the need for intervention being needed more than it is. This is the reason I questioned this treatment of me when I was pg the first time.
How on earth do we tell when their offered intervention IS NEEDED ?????
How do we know the difference between an over careful doctor and one who has the true best interests of the mother and baby at heart?
I was led to believe most offered intervention is for Dr's convenience so I resisted intervention when I should have accepted it.
How as "lay people" can we know that any offered intervention is not immediately needed?????
I had a better relationship with the OB when I had my DS. Unfortunately because he counselled us about the details of my daughters passing (unexplained stillbirth) he knew me well for the next pregnancy.
He understood my great wish to have a live VB and he worked hard to achieve this.
It didn't happen even with intervention...............
My problem is that my choices WERE supported! If I had been more bullied and not such a strong advocate for myself and what I thought was best for my babies I would be a whole lot BETTER off now!

That's the million dollar question, honey. I wish I had the answers. I'm still terrified of another c/s. :( :hug:

Kateo, please don't be so hard in yourself hun. You said yourself that your DD's passing was unexplained. At the end of the day, there's no way you can know whether the outcome would have been different if you were induced, it very well may have been the same. Some things we just don't know. Please do not blame yourself :hug:

No they aren't always bad. I had a wonderful OB who never pushed me into anything. I told him what I wanted but I also trusted him to make the right choice for me and my baby. If it came down to a CS then I was happy to do that. In the end I was induced to "fit in" with DH being home.

I agree they definitely aren't always the wrong option. I feel my SIL's induction is what allowed her to have a vaginal delivery rather than a c/s (not saying a c/s was an issue as such, but wasn't what SHE was aiming for) so I think in her case the induction was a good option. For what it's worth her DD was big, which we now know was caused by a medical condition but of course at the time we just knew the soon to arrive baby was big (not just slightly big, really big). She was induced early and had a vaginal delivery - albeit a very difficult, traumatic and harmful one due to her size - but I think a few extra weeks of growth would have tipped the balance from difficult induction to emergency section. SIL has gone on to have another DD or a more natural size (by that I mean natural for what her and her partner would expect to produce and not 'enlarged' by a medical condition) and had a lovely birth - again something that would have panned out much differently if the first had been a c/s and that was an attempted VBAC.

I think that being too single minded in either direction (ie. I'm going to follow everything my ob says down to the letter OR I'm going to fight my ob every step of the way) is not something that sits well with me. Sorry I'm not saying the OP did that, I don't really know the background story, but even if I did I'm neither qualified or inclined to pass judgement, just talking 'in general' here. Anyway, I think being very single minded and not open to looking at things a different way can mean you loose the ability to look at the things objectively and see how they sit with your unique set of challenges, rather than slotting into the standard line of the philosophy you follow.

Even though I've not been on the receiving end of unfriendly, unhelpful or inflamatory posts from what we are calling 'advocates for natural and non-medicalised birth' (sorry to steal you words, I dont' have anthing better!), I've seen what you are talking about and have winced along with other members at the sharper than necessary responses. The way I look at it, being in the position of having nice uncomplicated pregnancies and births is a bit of a luxury. If I had never had PE or an IUGR baby I could too could have had the luxury of a spontaneous labour and endlessly sprout the virtues of it to anyone who would listen. But I got dealt a different hand, I didn't have that luxury of delivering in the ivory tower. I am very happy that there are people out there that can birth how ever they want without the restrictions of illness, babies with crappy presentations, failing placentas or other such non-negotiables, I hope they totally rocked it, but that wasn't me and damned if I'm going to let anyone make me feel inferior because of that.

I am so sorry for your loss Kateo.
And thank you for sharing.
I have been part of the decision making teams
To intervene on the high risk pregnancy and get it right you unfortunately have to intervene sometimes when things would have been ok. The science is far far from perfect. BUT there is science. Guidelines like inducing before 42 weeks are actually evidenced based. The best evidence we can get. But it's not perfect. And some people will be fine... And some won't. You just can't tell which ones are which.

Having been there to support women just like you give birth to their beautiful sleeping angels I can no longer participate actively in this forum due to comments about intervention .
It affects you deeply and forever when you are involved in baby loss.
Most times doctors, midwives, mums, dads are just trying to get it right. Truly and really, trying to avoid the immense heartache and pain that you have suffered.

Hugest hugs to you. I carry you with me having "met" you on this forum and read your beautiful poetry. I carry you with me in mind with the women I have cared for in real life, I am sure this makes me a little more likely to suggest induction in certain situations. And I think that's ok.

Xx

kateo, I'm truly sorry for your loss.
We can never know what might have been, but it must be impossible sometimes not to wonder: What if...?

I know that sometimes my own experiences cloud my perspective and sometimes I react to things that really don't concern me because I fear that others will experience what I did. And I'm sorry for that, because I know it probably isn't helpful at all. Really, all I want is for all mothers to feel cared for and loved as they birth their babies, confident in the people that are helping them.

:

---

I know that sometimes my own experiences cloud my perspective and sometimes I react to things that really don't concern me because I fear that others will experience what I did.

---

Exactly right. I do the same thing. For one, I regularly tell people about my induction with Amelia and how much I regret agreeing to it. I don't want anyone to go in thinking it's going to be sunshine and daisies, when it's anything but. I also usually - not always - add that Ianto's birth, an induction as well as a stillbirth, was a fairly good birth aside from the outcome. I'd change some things about it, yes, but I'm not as mentally scarred as I am by Amelia's.

But I also hold my breath and wish every woman could just skip the 32-week mark, because that was when Ianto died. That doesn't mean I expect their babies to die that week, just as I don't expect every induction to go badly. It just means I'm projecting my own fears onto their pregnancies or births.

Birth activism, like most 'activisms' are usually about changing the CULTURE of something, not about individual circumstances. I could tell you about how refusing intervention saved my son's life where my ob (who has 20 years experience and who I trusted) admitted I was right to refuse his advice and follow my instincts, but how it was for me obviously wasn't how it was for you, and that's the thing about birth, no one really knows for sure. Obs will err on the side of caution for the immediate circumstances facing them (and often this is to defer to a surgical or medicalised solution) but it may not be the best medium or long term outcome for the child, the mother or the family.

But that doesn't mean that as a society, we don't champion less medicalised/surgical birth. And to do that requires some passion for the subject. It's easy for me, whose children are older, to not care about the best outcomes of birthing women. But I do because I am passionate.

Some express their passions well, some don't. Some will influence, some will alienate. And it may be the same person who is doing that to two different people. As an activist, you try to get the message out, and like every human, the message doesn't always come out as elegantly as you like.

I still would prefer a world where women looked out for each other and for our children than one where we didn't participate in the sharing of information, and therefore the education of ourselves. I don't believe you don't trust your ob, or else why be there? But I do believe I am not someone who will follow someone's direction blindly, without being informed, without knowing the facts and being a PART of the decision.

We are all coloured by our experiences, but the bigger picture is that intervention rates on women in Australia is one of the highest in the developed world, which doesn't take a genius to realise it equals to a LOT of unnecessary intervention. Intervention that hurts women, children, families.

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

:

---

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

---

Oh to reach that point in our birth culture! If only...

I am so sorry for your loss Kateo. And thankyou for sharing. I am another that believes my c-section is not always a terrible thing, and it possibly saved my DS's life. He was breech, and I decided against trying to breech birth, although my midwives and ob were keen for me to try. When he was born, the cord was wrapped around his neck 3 times and it was a short cord. I always remember my midwife grabbing me and saying "You made the right decision. You were right." and that always makes me at peace with what I decided to do.

xxx

Kateo, I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby girl. What an utterly devastating experience for you and your partner.
I can see how certain comments on here could hurt your feelings and make you question the choices you made to birth your children. Don't let anybody invalidate your feelings.
I think sometimes, people get a bit defensive and the tone of some replies has been 'well everybody's responsible for being informed and making their own decisions and you don't know if the outcome would have been different or not'...

Yes, sometimes an induction and C/S are required and are the best outcome for mum and/or baby. It's heartbreaking that you didn't get the best outcome for your baby daughter and I wish that somebody at the hospital had picked up on something earlier to have avoided this.

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl Kateo. *hugs*

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl

thankyou for this post Kateo - I am so sorry you had to go through that, and I hope you can believe those who remind you that it wasn't your fault, whatever your decision was. :hug:

As I am still trying for my first, I cannot explain how important BB has been in teaching and explaining things to me that I would never have even thought about, but I too sometimes feel the strong opinions can cloud 'rational' responses to things. As a generally optimistic person, I feel that most Dr's are probably trying to do the right thing, but when I had a MC this year, in that short brief time I WAS pregnant, I was so confused about what I should/shouldn't do and who I should believe... did I want my FS to be my ob? would he have my best interests? the midwife at the hospital I visited, said on the tour that the bed in the birthing suite looked uncomfortable... she was sorry, but it was easier for them that way...., which put me off... i would never have even worried about that prior to having read everything on BB, I just trusted the Dr......... in some ways it's great that I now question things! but in other ways, i feel like I can't just experience getting pregnant and going through the motions of 'experiencing' something that happens in life... without all these additional anxieties ...

I know that its TOTALLY my thing! totally all about me, and my anxiety and taking on things that I needn't, but perhaps what you are referring to, is how I feel sometimes, when strong opinions change and alter the way others think and feel. We all need to be careful about being too strong in the way we speak and write things, because that can come across judgmental without even meaning too. Yes we all are responsible for our own opinions and making our own decisions, but we are also responsible for the way we share our opinions and views as well. We certainly cannot control how people 'take' the information we share, but we can be careful to say it in such a way that is kind and respectful.

I really do believe that most people in here have VERY good intentions, and really do want to advise and support each other - but just like life, we don't always get it right. It's nice to be reminded to be careful sometimes, and for that Kateo, I think this thread is really important. Thankyou.

:hug: I am so sorry about your angel baby xoxo

kateo you won't remember me, but I remember you sharing your story about Ellen (your first baby? correct me if I'm wrong) in the BellyBelly chat room over a year ago, about how you wished you'd gotten induced, and your story has stuck with me ever since. Because of your experience, I know that I will very seriously consider induction if I ever go over my dates. I'm definitely a hands off, all natural kind of person, but I'm being 100% honest when I say that it's your story that has made me more open minded about medical intervention.
I always think of you, I'm so truly sorry you never got to meet her. And thanks for this thread, it's so needed. We have to all remember that doctors do know what they are talking about, and bad things do happen and can be prevented if you'll just let them help.

I'm so sorry your birth experiences have been so awful kateo, and I'm very sorry you lost your precious girl.

Its hard when those advocating for what is in essence a very good cause are perhaps not as sensitive as they should be. I don't share the view that you should be able to dismiss other's opinions and not be affected by them, and I think we all need a reminder at times that while our message may be valid, the delivery could be handled more delicately. You can be as informed and educated as possible, but I don't believe there is a human being alive who doesn't question their judgment when things don't go well

You're absolutely right. There is a time and a place for medical intervention. And there is a time when we should listen to the decision others have made and just support them in it without judgment or comment, whether we would choose to walk the same path they have chosen or not.

Sorry for the loss of your precious daughter kateo.
I think luluhb said it perfectly and I don't have much more to add. Hopefully women read about these different stories (none of which are right or wrong) and how to educate themselves on childbirth.

My sis recently gave birth to twins by elective cs. Her ob said right from the start that he doesn't like to deliver twins naturally because of the 'possible dangers' for twin 2. My sis was happy with the decision and had the elective cs. She didn't want to put her babies at any possible risk. I didn't necessarily agree (obviously it IS possible to deliver twins naturally without any problems - people do it all the time) and I did talk to her about whether she was happy with the decision, but she was, so there was no point in pushing my opinion. The most important thing was the end result, not how they got there.

:

---

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

---

I think the whole point is that (as a PP said, sorry I can't remember who) generally the obs and midwives have to use their judgement when suggesting interventions (or not). The fact is that often no-one knows what is the right thing to do, and most medical professionals will probably err on the side of caution. The thing to remember is that generally they do have the mother and baby's best interests in mind. And yes, perhaps some of those interventions will turn out not to be necessary, but some of them will be.

I am lucky and have had 2 great births - one with an epidural that resulted in a vacuum extraction and one natural waterbirth. I am happy with both births. But not everyone gets to be as 'lucky' as me. I agree with the many previous posters - yes, it is definitely best to be informed and to know what your rights and options are. But, people should not discount all interventions just because they are interventions - sometimes they may be necessary. Yes, we may have one of the highest intervention rates in the world, but I bet we also have one of the lowest infant and maternal mortality rates (before I get shot for saying that, that is a completely uneducated assumption on my part :redface:).

Induction was gently offered to me when I was 39weeks with my daughter. Not pushed but suggested. I thought everything was OK and the Doctors would push for intervention if it was a real emergency. A couple of midwives I know actually said they thought I'd be fine to wait a few days longer.
I clearly remember asking the doc if everything would be OK if I waited a little longer. She said she thought it would be but didn't want me to go too long..........well I did.
If I hadn't had such a strong view about being "natural" I probably would have accepted the earlier intervention and have a live baby.
I was highly stressed during my first pregancy due to being forced to go to a tertiary hospital due to percieved high risk. I think due to this the docs may have "soft footed" with me and not pushed an induction.

Hugs kateo. And thank you. For being brave and speaking out. For sharing about your beautiful angel daughter. Thank you.


I agree not all interventions are bad. I have been in the position of needing them.

With my first I developed Pre-eclampsia and had to be induced at 37 weeks for my sake and baby's (as it was the doctors let me go as long as they could, I had been under observation for nearly 2 months before being induced)

With my second My waters broke but labour didn't start naturally so they gave me a synto drip to kick start things.

My third was prem (33weeks) spontaneous labour. Luckily I was in hospital because I'd had a show the day before.

My fourth tried to come prem but with medication and rest we managed to keep him in until 38 weeks. The night he was born I knew he would come then. Early labour started 7pm, was 5 min apart by 9pm but was only mild. Decided to go into hospital anyway. Baby's heart rate drop while I was hooked up to CTG. I was only 3-4cm dilated and he wasn't fully engaged yet. His heart rate drop dangerously 6-8 or more times in the next few hours. Because he was fully engaged my labour wasn't progressing and there was a real danger of him becoming distressed. So first they broke the waters, well that only helped a little. Then about 3am the doctor hooked me up to a synto drip. That got things going properly! Baby was born 4:18am with the cord around his neck (that was what had been causing the issues). If the doctors hadn't offered me the interventions I might not have my precious 12 week old baby here with me now.

And the funny thing is my dream/ideal birth would have been a water homebirth.......
So I envy those of you who can go through pregnancy and labour without any issues, I salute those who have held on to their ideals, and I understand those who have needed life saving interventions.

:

---

I think the whole point is that (as a PP said, sorry I can't remember who) generally the obs and midwives have to use their judgement when suggesting interventions (or not). The fact is that often no-one knows what is the right thing to do, and most medical professionals will probably err on the side of caution. The thing to remember is that generally they do have the mother and baby's best interests in mind. And yes, perhaps some of those interventions will turn out not to be necessary, but some of them will be.

---

I don't necessarily agree with this. In my experience intervention can, and is, offered for convenience. In my antenatal class, I was the only woman out of 10 who didn't have a planned c/s coming. They all had reasons - the baby was too big, their dr didn't want them to 'go over, which was common in first babies', their hips were too small and that little nugget, which my ob tried on me 'you tried so hard to have this baby, would you want to risk it with a natural birth?'.

That class is one of the reasons I now speak out against what I consider to be unnecessary intervention. There is a place for NECESSARY intervention, absolutely, and women should not have to second-guess which category they fall under. Our births would be less of a minefield if we knew were were being assessed for our actual risk instead of the medical profession's perceived risk, because their risk isn't just considering us, but other factors such as other patients (I was offered a epidural because they had another lady giving birth and they couldn't attend to me), their own lives (my ob didn't want to come in on a Sunday when my labour stalled because it was Easter Sunday and his family were 'doing lunch') and because intervention with a medical solution is what they're trained to do.

Do I doubt his intentions? No, I believe that they were mostly good. But he's not God and I needed to be part of those decisions too. And my motivations and his weren't necessarily the same. Because I'm the one giving birth, and I was only one of many he was being paid to help.

kateo, I'm sorry for you loss, and that things had been different for you. Life can be very cruel.

:

---

I'm so sorry your birth experiences have been so awful kateo, and I'm very sorry you lost your precious girl.

Its hard when those advocating for what is in essence a very good cause are perhaps not as sensitive as they should be. I don't share the view that you should be able to dismiss other's opinions and not be affected by them, and I think we all need a reminder at times that while our message may be valid, the delivery could be handled more delicately. You can be as informed and educated as possible, but I don't believe there is a human being alive who doesn't question their judgment when things don't go well

You're absolutely right. There is a time and a place for medical intervention. And there is a time when we should listen to the decision others have made and just support them in it without judgment or comment, whether we would choose to walk the same path they have chosen or not.

---

This is so true.

I can't even begin to fathom your emotions and hurt, but please don't blame yourself, which I know as mother you always will. But it is in NO way your fault.

I agree with you too about listening to the doctors. They aren't evil and I'm sure despite the hundreds of bad experiences, no doctor was trying to act in the mothers worst interests.

I also agree though that they offered sometimes for the wrong reason, so how do we determine. My ob wanted to induce me because he was going on holidays....yes you read that right. Dh and I thought about it and said he hasn't given us a medical reason so we won't take up the offer. BB gave me the confidence to do that.

I do feel however that some people on her can be harsh and un-understanding, perhaps not intentionally but nonetheless we should all write with compassion because we don't truly know the person writing originally. It's unfortunate it's not always a level playing field in the sense of if we were to get aggressive about being against home birth or drug free (which btw I'm NOT against) we would be shot down and reported, but not so the other way.

Hugs to you Hun, focus on the amazing ds you have now and remember that one day you'll see your beautiful dd again.

Xxxx

I'm sorry for your loss and want to thank you for sharing.