Induction and C/S aren't always bad

[onthefly]

kateo, I'm truly sorry for your loss.
We can never know what might have been, but it must be impossible sometimes not to wonder: What if...?

I know that sometimes my own experiences cloud my perspective and sometimes I react to things that really don't concern me because I fear that others will experience what I did. And I'm sorry for that, because I know it probably isn't helpful at all. Really, all I want is for all mothers to feel cared for and loved as they birth their babies, confident in the people that are helping them.

[TeniBear]

I know that sometimes my own experiences cloud my perspective and sometimes I react to things that really don't concern me because I fear that others will experience what I did.

Exactly right. I do the same thing. For one, I regularly tell people about my induction with Amelia and how much I regret agreeing to it. I don't want anyone to go in thinking it's going to be sunshine and daisies, when it's anything but. I also usually - not always - add that Ianto's birth, an induction as well as a stillbirth, was a fairly good birth aside from the outcome. I'd change some things about it, yes, but I'm not as mentally scarred as I am by Amelia's.

But I also hold my breath and wish every woman could just skip the 32-week mark, because that was when Ianto died. That doesn't mean I expect their babies to die that week, just as I don't expect every induction to go badly. It just means I'm projecting my own fears onto their pregnancies or births.

[sushee]

Birth activism, like most 'activisms' are usually about changing the CULTURE of something, not about individual circumstances. I could tell you about how refusing intervention saved my son's life where my ob (who has 20 years experience and who I trusted) admitted I was right to refuse his advice and follow my instincts, but how it was for me obviously wasn't how it was for you, and that's the thing about birth, no one really knows for sure. Obs will err on the side of caution for the immediate circumstances facing them (and often this is to defer to a surgical or medicalised solution) but it may not be the best medium or long term outcome for the child, the mother or the family.

But that doesn't mean that as a society, we don't champion less medicalised/surgical birth. And to do that requires some passion for the subject. It's easy for me, whose children are older, to not care about the best outcomes of birthing women. But I do because I am passionate.

Some express their passions well, some don't. Some will influence, some will alienate. And it may be the same person who is doing that to two different people. As an activist, you try to get the message out, and like every human, the message doesn't always come out as elegantly as you like.

I still would prefer a world where women looked out for each other and for our children than one where we didn't participate in the sharing of information, and therefore the education of ourselves. I don't believe you don't trust your ob, or else why be there? But I do believe I am not someone who will follow someone's direction blindly, without being informed, without knowing the facts and being a PART of the decision.

We are all coloured by our experiences, but the bigger picture is that intervention rates on women in Australia is one of the highest in the developed world, which doesn't take a genius to realise it equals to a LOT of unnecessary intervention. Intervention that hurts women, children, families.

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

[Cassius2]

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

Oh to reach that point in our birth culture! If only...

[mrscricket]

I am so sorry for your loss Kateo. And thankyou for sharing. I am another that believes my c-section is not always a terrible thing, and it possibly saved my DS's life. He was breech, and I decided against trying to breech birth, although my midwives and ob were keen for me to try. When he was born, the cord was wrapped around his neck 3 times and it was a short cord. I always remember my midwife grabbing me and saying "You made the right decision. You were right." and that always makes me at peace with what I decided to do.

xxx

[Three Graces]

Kateo, I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby girl. What an utterly devastating experience for you and your partner.
I can see how certain comments on here could hurt your feelings and make you question the choices you made to birth your children. Don't let anybody invalidate your feelings.
I think sometimes, people get a bit defensive and the tone of some replies has been 'well everybody's responsible for being informed and making their own decisions and you don't know if the outcome would have been different or not'...

Yes, sometimes an induction and C/S are required and are the best outcome for mum and/or baby. It's heartbreaking that you didn't get the best outcome for your baby daughter and I wish that somebody at the hospital had picked up on something earlier to have avoided this.

[~TT40~]

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl Kateo. *hugs*

[emmjayt]

I'm so sorry to hear about your beautiful girl

[myturn]

thankyou for this post Kateo - I am so sorry you had to go through that, and I hope you can believe those who remind you that it wasn't your fault, whatever your decision was.

As I am still trying for my first, I cannot explain how important BB has been in teaching and explaining things to me that I would never have even thought about, but I too sometimes feel the strong opinions can cloud 'rational' responses to things. As a generally optimistic person, I feel that most Dr's are probably trying to do the right thing, but when I had a MC this year, in that short brief time I WAS pregnant, I was so confused about what I should/shouldn't do and who I should believe... did I want my FS to be my ob? would he have my best interests? the midwife at the hospital I visited, said on the tour that the bed in the birthing suite looked uncomfortable... she was sorry, but it was easier for them that way...., which put me off... i would never have even worried about that prior to having read everything on BB, I just trusted the Dr......... in some ways it's great that I now question things! but in other ways, i feel like I can't just experience getting pregnant and going through the motions of 'experiencing' something that happens in life... without all these additional anxieties ...

I know that its TOTALLY my thing! totally all about me, and my anxiety and taking on things that I needn't, but perhaps what you are referring to, is how I feel sometimes, when strong opinions change and alter the way others think and feel. We all need to be careful about being too strong in the way we speak and write things, because that can come across judgmental without even meaning too. Yes we all are responsible for our own opinions and making our own decisions, but we are also responsible for the way we share our opinions and views as well. We certainly cannot control how people 'take' the information we share, but we can be careful to say it in such a way that is kind and respectful.

I really do believe that most people in here have VERY good intentions, and really do want to advise and support each other - but just like life, we don't always get it right. It's nice to be reminded to be careful sometimes, and for that Kateo, I think this thread is really important. Thankyou.

I am so sorry about your angel baby xoxo

[turtleschell]

kateo you won't remember me, but I remember you sharing your story about Ellen (your first baby? correct me if I'm wrong) in the BellyBelly chat room over a year ago, about how you wished you'd gotten induced, and your story has stuck with me ever since. Because of your experience, I know that I will very seriously consider induction if I ever go over my dates. I'm definitely a hands off, all natural kind of person, but I'm being 100% honest when I say that it's your story that has made me more open minded about medical intervention.
I always think of you, I'm so truly sorry you never got to meet her. And thanks for this thread, it's so needed. We have to all remember that doctors do know what they are talking about, and bad things do happen and can be prevented if you'll just let them help.

[LuluHB]

I'm so sorry your birth experiences have been so awful kateo, and I'm very sorry you lost your precious girl.

Its hard when those advocating for what is in essence a very good cause are perhaps not as sensitive as they should be. I don't share the view that you should be able to dismiss other's opinions and not be affected by them, and I think we all need a reminder at times that while our message may be valid, the delivery could be handled more delicately. You can be as informed and educated as possible, but I don't believe there is a human being alive who doesn't question their judgment when things don't go well

You're absolutely right. There is a time and a place for medical intervention. And there is a time when we should listen to the decision others have made and just support them in it without judgment or comment, whether we would choose to walk the same path they have chosen or not.

[leesha]

Sorry for the loss of your precious daughter kateo.
I think luluhb said it perfectly and I don't have much more to add. Hopefully women read about these different stories (none of which are right or wrong) and how to educate themselves on childbirth.

[gypsy79]

My sis recently gave birth to twins by elective cs. Her ob said right from the start that he doesn't like to deliver twins naturally because of the 'possible dangers' for twin 2. My sis was happy with the decision and had the elective cs. She didn't want to put her babies at any possible risk. I didn't necessarily agree (obviously it IS possible to deliver twins naturally without any problems - people do it all the time) and I did talk to her about whether she was happy with the decision, but she was, so there was no point in pushing my opinion. The most important thing was the end result, not how they got there.

If we only had necessary interventions perhaps it wouldn't be a minefield of 'when should I listen, and when should I not?'. If we could trust that when our dr said we needed a cs, than as women, we don't have to weigh up whether it's true or not. Imagine that.

I think the whole point is that (as a PP said, sorry I can't remember who) generally the obs and midwives have to use their judgement when suggesting interventions (or not). The fact is that often no-one knows what is the right thing to do, and most medical professionals will probably err on the side of caution. The thing to remember is that generally they do have the mother and baby's best interests in mind. And yes, perhaps some of those interventions will turn out not to be necessary, but some of them will be.

I am lucky and have had 2 great births - one with an epidural that resulted in a vacuum extraction and one natural waterbirth. I am happy with both births. But not everyone gets to be as 'lucky' as me. I agree with the many previous posters - yes, it is definitely best to be informed and to know what your rights and options are. But, people should not discount all interventions just because they are interventions - sometimes they may be necessary. Yes, we may have one of the highest intervention rates in the world, but I bet we also have one of the lowest infant and maternal mortality rates (before I get shot for saying that, that is a completely uneducated assumption on my part ).

[kateo]

Induction was gently offered to me when I was 39weeks with my daughter. Not pushed but suggested. I thought everything was OK and the Doctors would push for intervention if it was a real emergency. A couple of midwives I know actually said they thought I'd be fine to wait a few days longer.
I clearly remember asking the doc if everything would be OK if I waited a little longer. She said she thought it would be but didn't want me to go too long..........well I did.
If I hadn't had such a strong view about being "natural" I probably would have accepted the earlier intervention and have a live baby.
I was highly stressed during my first pregancy due to being forced to go to a tertiary hospital due to percieved high risk. I think due to this the docs may have "soft footed" with me and not pushed an induction.

[Chrispe]

Hugs kateo. And thank you. For being brave and speaking out. For sharing about your beautiful angel daughter. Thank you.


I agree not all interventions are bad. I have been in the position of needing them.

With my first I developed Pre-eclampsia and had to be induced at 37 weeks for my sake and baby's (as it was the doctors let me go as long as they could, I had been under observation for nearly 2 months before being induced)

With my second My waters broke but labour didn't start naturally so they gave me a synto drip to kick start things.

My third was prem (33weeks) spontaneous labour. Luckily I was in hospital because I'd had a show the day before.

My fourth tried to come prem but with medication and rest we managed to keep him in until 38 weeks. The night he was born I knew he would come then. Early labour started 7pm, was 5 min apart by 9pm but was only mild. Decided to go into hospital anyway. Baby's heart rate drop while I was hooked up to CTG. I was only 3-4cm dilated and he wasn't fully engaged yet. His heart rate drop dangerously 6-8 or more times in the next few hours. Because he was fully engaged my labour wasn't progressing and there was a real danger of him becoming distressed. So first they broke the waters, well that only helped a little. Then about 3am the doctor hooked me up to a synto drip. That got things going properly! Baby was born 4:18am with the cord around his neck (that was what had been causing the issues). If the doctors hadn't offered me the interventions I might not have my precious 12 week old baby here with me now.

And the funny thing is my dream/ideal birth would have been a water homebirth.......
So I envy those of you who can go through pregnancy and labour without any issues, I salute those who have held on to their ideals, and I understand those who have needed life saving interventions.

[sushee]

I think the whole point is that (as a PP said, sorry I can't remember who) generally the obs and midwives have to use their judgement when suggesting interventions (or not). The fact is that often no-one knows what is the right thing to do, and most medical professionals will probably err on the side of caution. The thing to remember is that generally they do have the mother and baby's best interests in mind. And yes, perhaps some of those interventions will turn out not to be necessary, but some of them will be.

I don't necessarily agree with this. In my experience intervention can, and is, offered for convenience. In my antenatal class, I was the only woman out of 10 who didn't have a planned c/s coming. They all had reasons - the baby was too big, their dr didn't want them to 'go over, which was common in first babies', their hips were too small and that little nugget, which my ob tried on me 'you tried so hard to have this baby, would you want to risk it with a natural birth?'.

That class is one of the reasons I now speak out against what I consider to be unnecessary intervention. There is a place for NECESSARY intervention, absolutely, and women should not have to second-guess which category they fall under. Our births would be less of a minefield if we knew were were being assessed for our actual risk instead of the medical profession's perceived risk, because their risk isn't just considering us, but other factors such as other patients (I was offered a epidural because they had another lady giving birth and they couldn't attend to me), their own lives (my ob didn't want to come in on a Sunday when my labour stalled because it was Easter Sunday and his family were 'doing lunch') and because intervention with a medical solution is what they're trained to do.

Do I doubt his intentions? No, I believe that they were mostly good. But he's not God and I needed to be part of those decisions too. And my motivations and his weren't necessarily the same. Because I'm the one giving birth, and I was only one of many he was being paid to help.

kateo, I'm sorry for you loss, and that things had been different for you. Life can be very cruel.

[little_O]

I'm so sorry your birth experiences have been so awful kateo, and I'm very sorry you lost your precious girl.

Its hard when those advocating for what is in essence a very good cause are perhaps not as sensitive as they should be. I don't share the view that you should be able to dismiss other's opinions and not be affected by them, and I think we all need a reminder at times that while our message may be valid, the delivery could be handled more delicately. You can be as informed and educated as possible, but I don't believe there is a human being alive who doesn't question their judgment when things don't go well

You're absolutely right. There is a time and a place for medical intervention. And there is a time when we should listen to the decision others have made and just support them in it without judgment or comment, whether we would choose to walk the same path they have chosen or not.

This is so true.

I can't even begin to fathom your emotions and hurt, but please don't blame yourself, which I know as mother you always will. But it is in NO way your fault.

I agree with you too about listening to the doctors. They aren't evil and I'm sure despite the hundreds of bad experiences, no doctor was trying to act in the mothers worst interests.

I also agree though that they offered sometimes for the wrong reason, so how do we determine. My ob wanted to induce me because he was going on holidays....yes you read that right. Dh and I thought about it and said he hasn't given us a medical reason so we won't take up the offer. BB gave me the confidence to do that.

I do feel however that some people on her can be harsh and un-understanding, perhaps not intentionally but nonetheless we should all write with compassion because we don't truly know the person writing originally. It's unfortunate it's not always a level playing field in the sense of if we were to get aggressive about being against home birth or drug free (which btw I'm NOT against) we would be shot down and reported, but not so the other way.

Hugs to you Hun, focus on the amazing ds you have now and remember that one day you'll see your beautiful dd again.

Xxxx

[veus]

I'm sorry for your loss and want to thank you for sharing.