Has anyone used Tizzie's methods via email, her books, purchased online articles etc? If so, can you please comment on their effectiveness/usefulness? Many thanks!
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Has anyone used Tizzie's methods via email, her books, purchased online articles etc? If so, can you please comment on their effectiveness/usefulness? Many thanks!
Here's an old thread. You can search the site for more replies too but lots of comments.
It's not one I recommend, nor do many lactation consultants due to the feeding regime but a few mothers like it.
Yeah, not for me, not sure of her credentials and she craps me off a bit actually!
blerk!!!
If I said she's irresponsible and dreadful she'd probably pop up threaten to sue Kelly and me and anyone else who has viewed the thread so I'll just bite my tongue *bite*
Me four? I have read the book and while it does appeal to think that you can have the "ideal" baby... I found neither of my children would be able to fit into that ideal. Both my girls are individuals... both completely different, and both worked best with a rhythm that fit them. With my first I tried a more strict routine because of all the issues we had with her sleeping and feeding and found it made it heaps worse. HTH.
I didn't realise how controversial her methods were until I just read the 2006 thread discussion. Many thanks for that, Kelly. I now understand the situation a bit better. I think I will stick to my natural parenting instincts!
Yeah, her routines don't take into account individuals. What about the kids, mine included, that have food sensitivities? No routine it going to work until the culprit foods etc are found and eliminated.
Thanks goodness this thread is here! I've been having some trouble with DD's sleeping and after talking to BF and HN who both love it I was feeling a bit of pressure to do her routines. I don't want to cause they are so ridiculously strict!! I did like some of her settling ideas but there is now way I will leave DD screaming or even crying and patting her for up to 40 mins when I can give her a quick cuddle and she will fall asleep. Yes we're still having some issue but I'm sure there are some other ways to solve them. Anyway good to hear that she is not someone I have to pay attention to!
I'm a cuddler too Jordie. Much easier (and nicer) than patting. I gave up the "no eye contact" rule (not sure if this is Tizzie's or some other expert's) VERY early after DD entranced me one night at 3am and I couldn't take my eyes off her. I wouldn't have missed it for the world!
Its a joke that so many routines out there expect us to treat our babies in a way that we would never treat our loved ones. Like at night, when we are cuddling up to our partner all snuggled in and wanted to connect for the night but what if they kept looking away and wouldn't give eye contact. Blugh.
The books I think are must reads are the Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland and any of Pinky McKays books. You will get plenty of ideas and reassurance about how you parent, from birth to childhood. It's all about respect. Even that new government health website worth 11m of our hard earned taxes is a huge disappointment. In it, it tells you that when you do controlled crying, is can make babies vomit and you shouldn't make a fuss of it and carry on. Well I am sorry, but that's plain disturbing and if a child, let alone any human vomits in distress then I am not going to pretend nothing happened and move on. They are in need of COMFORT.
OMG! hack in and take it down!!! That's appalling!
OMG really??? Do they have a feedback function on that website? Coz I've got some feedback for them alright!
I entered feedback when I first came across it. Absolutely horrified that a Govt website promotes such practices.
Deirdre, have you checked out our main site which has heaps of settling articles?
https://www.bellybelly.com.au/baby/
Oh and those who want to thrash the raising children network (trust me, lots of us have written in and complained but it's still there since 2006, serving the community - gotta love the government!):
This is a Royal Children's Hospital article, from Melbourne!:
What if my baby vomits?
Some babies tend to vomit more often than others and about one in five may vomit during controlled comforting. If this happens it can be upsetting for baby and parent. Try to calmly clean up any vomit from the bed and put a clean nappy wrap under your baby?s head. It's best to avoid making a big fuss, turning on lights, or completely changing the baby unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise, some babies can learn to vomit each time they are put into the cot.
Raising Children Network | Controlled comforting
Complain at the link at the bottom of the article 'Feedback - tell us what you think of this article'
What I think isn't appropriate for the family timeslot ;) It's a monstrosity
You can rate the article too. I suggest giving it one star so that other parents can see how poorly it's rated even if they won't pull it.
Yes, I have had an enjoyable read of the articles, thanks Kelly. I still can't get over the 'vomiting' part on Raising Children!!
This is a bit off topic but I studied history so I guess my first thought is always, "well, I wonder what people did 50, 100, 500 years ago?"
Strikes me that parents used to sing their children lullabies and now progress and so-called experts are saying that controlled crying is the go and don't worry about the vomiting. So much for progress!
If anyone knows of any 17th, 18th, 19th and early 20th century parenting books, I'd be really interested just to see what was advocated then. I'm guessing thought that this knowledge was passed down verbally from mother to daughter. I'm not saying they had all the answers by the way, I'm sure they had some pretty strange ways of doing things too - but just curious from a historical perspective.
I've rated that article & given feedback saying how ridiculous it is. Absurd really. I think that we should continue to let them know how old and outdated their information is on sleep issues.
Come on girls- our government also has laws stipulating the part of a child's body that may be smacked and the method of smacking that is appropriate... I do believe such laws used to exist for slaves too but that's way too back in the dark ages to be considered appropriate now.
I'll have to have a read of these Tizzie Hall comments- doesn't sound like she's up my alley...
Edited to add: Just had a quick look and had to say Oi Kelly! Not all childless child care workers have wierdo things to say about caring for children.
Yeh I know ren :p ... just amazing how many of them write books and get fame and fortune writing things like this! Anyone could write a book and be an expert it seems.... not good!
Thanks for the link Kelly. I've rated it but will take my time formulating a feedback post that eloquently states my opinion that the article is complete crud. Wouldn't want them to miss my point. :) I also really would like to strongly question their assertion that babies as young as 6 months can learn to vomit on command in order to manipulate their poor unsuspecting parents.
I see it's rating 2 stars atm. Wow, there must have been those who voted positively for babies vomiting in distress.
2 stars = poor, so I'd say that doesn't sound like approval for letting babies vomit.
I actually looked at that website last week and was appalled at the instructions on it - no mention that there may be altenative (kinder) ways of doing things. Just developing my comment now.
I'm not sure if this is a little off-topic, but it does follow on from something mentioned in previous posts and also the old thread that was referred to...
My question is, does someone have to be pregnant/have children to be considered a reliable source of information about pregnancy, birth and/or children?
I am a health professional who works with pregnant women and their children. I don't have children myself and I have to say I took a little offence to some of the phrasing used by previous posters when referring to childless carers/experts/professionals etc.
Obviously I haven't experienced first-hand the exertion, exhaustion and exhilaration of pregnancy, birth and mothering, but does that mean my advice is worth less than someone who has?
Nope not at all - but when it's bad advice, leading to things like failure to thrive etc then it is. When routines from these 'experts' cannot take into account the hormonal attachments that women feel to their children/babies and think they are going to be able to not look into babies eyes at night, watch them vomit without comfort and only feed them when the clock says, then that is completely inappropriate in my eyes. The discussion was about a particular expert, and about claims the expert was making and questioning that, so its not a sweeping statement and I didn't say all... but it is ironic that most of the 'baby experts' or 'baby whisperers' who are making shed loads of money telling mothers how to get sleep at night (who wouldn't pay millions for the magic answer) have no children and have experience as a nanny - a role in which you can be more firm and hardlined because you have no emotional attachment to the child like a mother would. I think they prey on tired, exhausted and unsupported mums to the detriment of our children's health, but little do we know it... for some it appears to work but the research in cortisol in babies brains left to cry it out is of concern. Do they care? Nup, where's your credit card thanks?! It's not even based on research, yet women will only choose a qualified Obstetrician and want the best etc... wouldn't you want someone giving you qualified advice for your baby, from research or whatever?
SJH, the "expert" being discussed in the thread is not a health professional or a mother. She has no qualifications in child care, child health etc AND she is not a mother. That is the basis of the comments regarding her credibility (well, that and her truly questionable advice!). You might not be a mother, but you say you are a health professional which I assume means that you have qualifications, or at the very least some training. Therefore don't worry, the comments are not relevant to you ;).
I think the hardest thing for parents to discern is the motivation behind the advice, books, articles etc. While I would definitely say that I am a critical-thinker (the "don't-believe-everything-you-see/read/hear" type) I do think that alot of the people doling out some of the, at best, erroneous advice really do believe that what they are advising works and will make for good routine,nutrition,intelligence, the list goes on.
I think research is also a tricky subject as a basis for "proving" methods. Just look at the stats for interventions in some hospitals and by some obstetricians but with volumes of medical journals behind them, many women never question whether these interventions were really, truly necessary (NB: am not debating homebirth vs hospital vs obstetrician vs midwife, just illustrating a point). On the other side of the coin, so many women find relief from naturopathic and homeopathic support during birth but the amount of research/studies into these methods pales in comparison to the more medicalised forms of assistance.
I'm not arguing with anyone, just wanted to say that "expert" is a bit of a subjective title and research sometimes has it's own agendas. In the end, it's up to all of us to go make up our own minds about what we see, hear, read and post :)
MR - Snap! We posted at the same time. Yes I do have qualifications. However sometimes all that means is that someone knew how to study books and sit exams. What I really hope is that everyone asks alot of questions about any advice they are given and makes up their own mind :)
I question anyone whose advice is only available by paying a certain amount of $$ for every individual article on their website. Even our poor cash-strapped ABA has a free helpline for mothers and need I point out all the wonderful articles available on BB - from those who truly are experts?!
Also anyone who claims they just have a 'gift' with babies and whose experience seems to stem from walking babies in prams around the block when they were eight.... Especially when said walking never led to any formal qualification in child care/health/etc/etc.
I think the problem with these methods is that they 'work'. The Tizzie Hall routines and the Supernanny naughty corner etc. appear to work in that they create the desired effect in appearing to have a 'settled' child. When in actual fact what you have is a 'controlled' child. I'm not sure that the problem lies in the promoters of these methods not being mothers, but rather that they have chosen to endorse a system without further educating themselves and finding out why it works and whether it's actually producing a desirable outcome.
Sometimes, not always. Particularly with babies. There are more failures with controlled crying than successes. Not that I disagree with the point of your post Ren!:
I know what you mean Sarah and it's frustrating because take a medical example, it depends what research the Obs choose to read. There is STACKS of research about the benefits of delayed cord clamping dating years back right up to 2007, but so many Obs are still sprouting that it is more dangerous leaving it to clamp, in case of jaundice etc, when all their objections have been dismissed by the studies, including the WHO. And also hospitals refuse to adopt the policies like delayed clamping... it's a joke! Best care? Or best defensive/convenient practice? There are many things that are not best for women and babies being practiced in this day and time, so now, more than ever, its so important for women to inform themselves and research to find out their own answers and make their own decisions.
ps. I know what ren meant, they (controlled crying methods) do appear to work for some babies but studies show these babies have learnt to give up asking for help as they know the wont get it, and the concern is they will become submissive in personality and not voice their needs. A study in a parenting magazine found around 50% of mums had tried CC, and only around 5-8% said it had worked in the short term. So many professionals recommend something that 'works' for such a small percent of babies? Because no-one wants to hear that there is no quick and easy way to help your baby learn to settle. It takes time and trust.
Oh, but it works eventually cause you're told to not back down and stay firm... so months down the line when your baby is more mature it will eventually work. And that's purely because you stuck with it of course. *sigh*:
(I'm not disagreeing with you either ;))
I haven't read her work myself but its pretty popular on other forums. I felt very uncomfortable personally when mothers talk about letting small babies cry for 40 minutes at a time - and that was before my baby arrived. Now that he is here I can't imagine letting him cry for that long. He cries because he needs me, because he is hungry or wet or uncomfortable, not because he wants to willfully destroy my sleep.
Also, my primary concern at this point is breasfeeding, and I just don't see how a strict schedule would work for us - if he is hungry, he is hungry, and he shouldn't have to wait to eat.
I'm pleased to realise that not everyone thinks that strict schedules and routines are the way to 'manage' babies - makes me feel more confidant in my decision to be baby-led at this time.
ETA: What happened with Tizzie? Did she sue or did it all blow over?
my mchn suggested all the mothers in our group read tizzie's book 'save our sleep'. unfortunately 3 mothers went out and bought it and have been using it. i refused to read it, but flipped through it at a friend's place cos i wanted to see what she was suggesting. i didn't like what i was reading, especially as this was at the same time as i was reading all about cortisol releasing in 'the science of parenting'. i'm not really sure what my point is here, except to say that i am so glad i discovered bb and have been pointed in the right direction (pinky, margot sutherland). if i hadn't, i may have followed the inappropriate advice of the mchn.
How frustrating. At our breast feeding class last night our teacher recommended Pinky McKay and Margot Sutherland... I had a lot of respect for everything she had to say then :lol:
My MCHN said trying to schedule a newborn is setting yourself up for failure and frustration. She said the one she hates most is Gina Ford but she wasn't complimentary about Tizzie Hall either. She said if I want a reference book to try Baby Love but even thats hit and miss and that I'd be better off following Oliver's cues, which was our plan anyway. I like my MCHN:)
I love my MCHN. She's very sensible and pretty laidback. If I had a dollar for every time she said "just go with her" ie. DD - I'd be a very rich woman. It really doesn't need to be any more complicated than watching for their tired signs.