thread: BellyBelly BookClub Book Discussion thread *possible spoilers*

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  1. #1
    Registered User

    Jan 2008
    in my head
    1,975

    Ok, I know this is cheating a bit but I found this information in Wikipedia:

    It was translated of course!
    Love in the Time of Cholera (Spanish: El amor en los tiempos del cólera) is a novel by Nobel Prize winning Colombian author Gabriel GarcÃ*a Márquez that was first published in Spanish in 1985, with an English translation released in 1988 by Alfred A. Knopf. An English-language film adaptation was released in 2007.
    And because the location was bugging me:
    The story takes place in an unnamed port city somewhere in the Caribbean, near the Magdalena River. While the city remains unnamed throughout the novel, descriptions of it led one to the conclusion that it must be Cartagena, in BolÃ*var, Colombia, where GarcÃ*a Márquez spent his early years.
    Wikipedia says this about the themes of the book:
    Narrative as seduction
    Some critics choose to view Love in the Time of Cholera as a heart-warming story about the enduring power of true love. Others criticize this view as simple, contending that the author has woven a story so dense that the reader risks falling into its trap of sweetness and simplicity if they do not pay close attention to what is happening. GarcÃ*a Márquez himself said in an interview, "you have to be careful not to fall into my trap."[4]

    This is manifested by Ariza’s excessively romantic attitude toward life, an attitude which shapes his obsession with Daza, and his gullibility in trying to retrieve the sunken treasure of a shipwreck. It is also made evident by the fact that society in the story believes Daza and Urbino’s marriage is perfect and happy, while the reality of the situation is not so ideal. Critic Booker relates Ariza’s situation to that of Humbert Humbert in Vladimir Nabokov’s Lolita, saying that just as Humbert is able to charm the reader into sympathizing with his situation, even though he is a "pervert, a rapist, and a murderer," Ariza is able to garner the reader’s sympathy, even though the reader is consistently reminded of his more sinister exploits.[4]

    Narrative as deconstruction
    The notion that Marquez's "trap" refers to our temptation to oversimplify and reduce his narrative to an elementary love story is further abetted by the fact that the novel holds up and interrogates romantic love in myriad forms, both "ideal" and "depraved", and continually forces the reader to question such ready-made characterizations by introducing elements antithetical to these facile judgments.

    Love as an emotional and physical disease
    GarcÃ*a Márquez's main notion is that lovesickness is a literal illness, a disease comparable to cholera. Ariza suffers from this just as he might suffer from any malady. At one point, he conflates his physical agony with his amorous agony when he vomits after eating flowers in order to imbibe Fermina's scent. In the final chapter, the Captain's declaration of metaphorical plague is another manifestation of this. The term cholera as it is used in Spanish, cólera, can also denote human rage and ire. (The English adjective choleric has the same meaning.) It is this second meaning to the title that manifests itself both on the level of Ariza's hatred for Urbino's marriage to Fermina, as well as the theme of social strife and warfare that serves as a backdrop to the entire story.

    Aging and death
    Jeremiah Saint-Amour's death inspires Urbino to meditate on his own death, especially the infirmities that accompany it. It is necessary for Fermina and Florentino to transcend not only the difficulties of love, but also the societal view that love is a young person's prerogative (not to mention the physical obstacles that old age brings to physical love).

    Suffering for loveFlorentino's penchant for high drama as a poet and a lover is portrayed as both ridiculous and serious. He may go to outlandish lengths for love, but in the end the absurdity is ennobling and his suffering has a kind of dignity. He also endures physical pains.
    Went to Oprah's Book Club website and she said this:

    "This is one of the greatest love stories I have ever read. ...; It is so beautifully written that it really takes you to another place in time and will make you ask yourself—how long could you, or would you, wait for love?" — Oprah
    Last edited by ~Kaz~; March 12th, 2010 at 09:02 PM. : Adding Oprah quote

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Nov 2007
    Cocooned in the love of my family!
    1,259

    Mmmm-hmmm........

    Not my thoughts exactly....

  3. #3
    Registered User

    Mar 2009
    1,400

    Okay, so Oprah may have missed the whole point then???
    Thanks for the Wiki reference Kaz - I am going to have another read of it when kids not crazy (so 2014 at this rate, lol) it has given me food for thought.
    Perhaps the guided questions for the next book may help my addled brain!

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Sydney, NSW
    4,329

    sorry kaz. been meaning to post but just hadnt managed to.

    i enjoyed it at the start, but was over florentino;s womanising ways. i found that it was quite long-winded at parts, going into unneccesary description but maybe that's to establish the characters more?
    sorry, im being vague here but trying to write this quick while ds is asleep and i can do stuff in the kitchen.

    i'll write more but found that last chapter hurried- how fermina and florentino got together so quickly and it seemed so convienient.

    i have to run but will come back to post more.

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Jan 2006
    8,369

    I read the book a couple of days ago and have "digested" it now.

    It was interesting. I liked the style: it seems to be a Spanish-influenced style as the few Spanish books I have read (after translation!) read like this. I generally dislike books that start at the end and work back, but this was managable.

    The characters were human, I'll give them that. In that just as you start to like them, they pee you off. Urbino I did like - then he had loads of women while he was training. Then he had an affair just as you start to like him again.

    Fermia Daza didn't think things through and married Urbino for security. She wanted to be married before age 21. Mmmm. I liked her thought that your love for your children grows as they do, grows with the friendship you develop with them. Then at the end she cuts her daughter off from her life for not liking that prat of a man she took up with. I didn't like Florentino at all!

    I did love the way FD just took one look at the chap she'd been writing to and thought "what the hell have I done?" - but didn't like her treatment of FA after that. FA was an idiot though, he went about everything the wrong way. His stalking of her (and the 600+ affairs) was creepy.

    As like the rest of you, I didn't like the riverboat ending. I'd rather it ended with FD closing the door on FA after JU died. It wasn't a great love story and quite frankly, I dated a chap a bit like FA (mistake!) and if he was still waiting for me, waiting for DH to die... eugh. The thought turns my stomach. If someone turns you down THAT much - accept it and move on. Find love again. Don't stalk them and sleep with hundreds of people (telling each woman they were his first... who honestly wants to be a chap's first when he's old and bald?) telling yourself you're waiting for this woman. You're not. You're weird.

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Jan 2008
    in my head
    1,975

    Oh I couldn't agree more about the weirdness of it all LZ. I have been thinking about this book on and off for days. There are lots of different version of love and ways to have relationships depicted in the story. I would not wait 50 years for romantic love but I would wait that long for my son, to re-establish a relationship with him if something happened. I probably wouldn't even wait for a tenth of that time romantically if the other person was rejecting me though. I'm very pragmatic and not prone to romantic impulses. Having said that, I don't think Florentino actually waited for Fermina. He had heaps of sex and affairs and loved a couple of those women (or could have if he'd not been fixated on Fermina). I also agree that this is not really a love story. It's more a story about life in that part of the world in that historical context. The more I think about Florentino, the more I see him as somebody with mental health issues - he seems obsessive-compulsive to me and to have a very dependent personality style. Some of his physical health problems (constipation etc) seem to be brought on by stress/anxiety. And he developed into a pederast at the end. I was waiting for that young girl to expose him and felt disappointed that she killed herself instead.

    I also can't get past the fact that he lied to Fermina at the end by telling her he'd waited and been chaste for her. He's basing their whole relationship on a lie. I can't get past that.

    I also keep wondering what the author meant when he said readers shouldn't fall into his trap. I've been trying to work out what that actually means.

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Jan 2006
    8,369

    Thing is, everyone knew that Florentino was sleeping around: even Fermina. So why not call him up on that? I think you're right Kaz, he was seriously ill. Several screws loose. And sleeping with a little girl his parents asked him to look after while she was at school, then dumping her once Urbino died: he's so very, very wrong. In every sense of the word.

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Nov 2007
    Cocooned in the love of my family!
    1,259

    LZ - I like your view on the whole thing!!

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Sydney, NSW
    4,329

    kaz - i think you hit the nail on the head, it wasnt real love for FA, it was indeed an obsession and he is manipulative. the way lied to all the women like he was their one and only. i think his mother had a lot to do with it. in some ways she molly-cuddled him.

    yeah, i didnt like the way FD cut off her daughter, i guess it had always been all about her.