VCE ... need some info

[fionas]

OK, DSD is pretty sure she wants to do VCE here rather than finish high school in America.

I went to school in the UK, so I don't know much about VCE and don't want to spend ages wading through Department of Education websites when I can just ask you girls instead!

So ... I guess a few questions that spring to mind are:

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
Approximately what proportion is based on assignments vs exams?
If anyone has experience of the Australian vs American systems, is it harder than the US?
What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?

Any info would be appreciated. I'll make an appointment with the school too at some point but just want some preliminary info.

[catherinemoses]

Hopefully someone will be able to help you more than I can.
I did mine just as they were phasing out the old system and bringing in the new system, so it was a combo of both. The new system (from what I remember) is based on these things called sacs. I can't remember what that stands for but they are like these tests/exams which are done in class. it is hard if you are not used to exam type situations, but year 11 is not worth as much as year 12 so it's kinda a practice year.
I didn't find it that hard, I got pass marks but didn't put in a lot of effort (never seemed to study as much as my friends, but did almost or just as well). I would have done a lot better if I had put in a bit more effort. IMO it is hard if you want to put the effort into getting amazing marks.
I don't think they particularly care about spelling, so long as they can understand what you are trying to say.
HTH a little

[LimeSlice]

I did the VCE - i also did the change over years, but I did subjects with both....that was 8 years ago, and I think they have made some little changes again, but here goes.:

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
It is hard work - it isnt supposed to be easy!! But with good teachers and hell of a lot of work, it is more than doable. It is a state wide comparison though, so their scores are ranked with all other students in the state - you are competing with everyone. The final ENTER is a RANK.
The teachers are on the students sides though and there are several different testing methods designed to make it just as acheivable no matter how you perform in exams vs assignments, iykwim....

Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
The VCE is a combined effort over 2 years of school - 1 Unit per Term, so four units per subject. You have to successfully pass a set number of UNITS in order to gain your VCE, over both years. So it is about application. You can make the grades up by virtue of the fact that the testing is ranging and varied, and is conducted through out the year in a series of set tasks, tests or exams called SACS these are usually completed in class time, with or without 'cheat sheets' or input from teachers, other students...you will be able to get the structure info from the website (though it is not as complicated as it would seem)
There are still final exams each year for most subjects, performing and visual arts subjects have practical based assessments as well as theory.

Approximately what proportion is based on assignments vs exams?
Again, find this on the website. When I did it, there were 3 SACS per semester and 1 final exam per semester. that may have changed by now. The proportion of the scores was varied depending on the subject stream, again find it on the website, or school - I cant remember exactly and dont want to mislead you!

If anyone has experience of the Australian vs American systems, is it harder than the US?
NFI - sorry! lol

What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?
Your stats still count, even if you leave and take it up again later (I did this due to family reasons)
Each Unit has an end value score but also a "S/N" component - ie SATISFACTORY or NOT lol Some work is graded purely on whether or not it is handed in....all requirements must be completed (ie submitting work and SITTING the exam) for you to receive an S for the subject Unit. So even if she fails the exam, SAC, she can/must still have an S for that subject in order to call the unit complete. This is relevant to what I mentioned about about the requirement to have certain numbers of units 1 2 3 AND 4 completed.
NB Unit 1 and 2 (Year 11) can be taken as individual units so you can do Literature 1 semester and Drama the next , but Units 3 and 4 must be taken together - the whole year and some subjects (maths, languages, etc) will require all consecutive units to be completed and to have other pre-req's.....if that makes any sense!! lol
So in short, she can and SHOULD still progress to year 12 no matter her results, she may need to choose different subjects, and she must still complete the required number of Units from year 11AND 12 with an S to be allowed to pass her VCE in the end of year 12. (she can graduate year 12 and not gain VCE (without being awarded an ENTER)...unless that has changed)


I hope some of that helps!
VCE requires discipline....as the subjects are elective, and most uni courses will have certain pre-req subjects to enter that stream in Uni, it is important that she has some direction at the outset, so she will have the drive to stay the course. 2 years is a long time in high school and the way it is set up it does require that concentration.
Having said that, and having done 1 year at private and 1 year at public schools, I personally would say to you that the choice of schools is VITAL - she has to get along with her teachers for the most part, or at least be able to get the most out of them. The school also has to be equipted to teach the subjects she wishes to study (especially performing and visual arts classes) so once you have all decided that she is going to do VCE sit down and discuss her preferences for career, uni courses, and subjects, then look at the schools if you can. If she needs direction and to discipline, then private schools are fantastic...a public school will generally be a lot less likely to chase her up and apply the pressure and support needed to complete it if she is having troubles....if that makes sense! If she is independent and able to work very well independently then public schools are fantastic as she will have the freedom....and that is ace, if she can handle it

Which school will she be going to do you know?...

HTH...sorry if its a bit of a ramble! lol

Lex

[Indadhanu]

Hi fiona,

I don't have any experience about VCE. I did QCS which I think is different to the VCE and HSC system.
You could try this page... info collected all on one page which might help... Victorian Certificate of Education Index - VCE - VCAA

I just wanted to contribute to this part of your questions....

Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
What happens if she's doing badly at the end of Year 11? I think I've heard that some schools encourage badly performing students to leave so as not to affect their statistics?

Ok, I struggled in my Year 11 and 12, a lot of different stuff happened and I put school at the back of my mind. Without the support of my school I don't think I could have completed Year 12 and got my certificate. It's really important that if your DSD is having some trouble with school or outside of school that you both go to her teachers and the guidance officer, make them aware of it, and get her support. If they don't know whats going on for her, then they might just think she isn't committed and they won't put the effort into helping her IYKWIM? Let the school know. They want your DSD to pass, and they will help if they know how.

You all might not want to share some info with the school, but the more they know the more they can help and allow her special consideration if its warrented. At least, they can give her extra help to pass. As long as she really wants to do it.

[Pandora]

The others have answered most of your questios so I'm going to just be brief.


Can you make up grades if you have a flaky spell?
Not in the sense of make up tests or extra credit to improve your grade. Because the score you get at the end of the year is a rank you can only be assessed on the same assignments and exams that everyone else taking that subject in that did. (which is weird with english when different schools study different books..)

Is it as hard going as everyone says?
It depends on the subjects chosen and on the aptitude and application of the student, but the workload is very high. I was doing at least 4-5 hours of study/homework a night all year, and with assignments and exam time that just increased. But I also chose to do 6 subjects that year when most kids do 5 and the minimum is 4.

WRT schools asking you to leave at the end of year 11 - this is a Private school thing, and its not necessarily all schools that do it. It definitely does happen though - I know 2 people who were 'encouraged' to change schools because the school didnt think they would pass VCE and wated to keep their 100% pass rate.

As was said before, if she wants to go to uni, then you need to start there. Find out what the prerequisite subjects are and make sure that the school you choose offers them. Same applies if shes not sure what she wants to do but wants to study in certain subject areas - not all schools will offer the same subjects, or have the same facilities.

[fionas]

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Look, I really hope she proves me wrong but I think she will struggle with VCE because she's not motivated and doesn't like school. So even if I wasn't very philosophically opposed to private schools (JMO), I don't think sending her to one would necessarily help and based on her previous grades I think we may be faced with a tough job getting her into one. Having said that though, she's had a very unstable home life for the last couple of years to-ing and fro-ing between the US and here so I think that has a lot to do with it.

Our local public school has a very good reputation and she attended there last year but mucked around a lot.

We've already had lots and lots of discussions about the importance of doing your best at school so as to keep as many career options as possible open, but I'm hoping that if she comes here for Year 10 that will give her enough time to settle down before applying herself for VCE.

Failing that, we'll just try and get her interested in SOMETHING whether it's retail/hospitality/whatever and encourage her to get a part-time job so she can see if she would like to pursue that when she leaves school.