Senior Campus allowing students to smoke

[diannescruffy]

It is a public school and the middle year campus where my boys go to is just up the road. If a child is caught smoking in the middle years campus they get suspended. What message are they sending out to the younger children, you get suspended now but it's ok to smoke when you reach the senior campus. The school is at the end of my street, I'm thinking tomorrow to go for a walk and see if I actually can see students smoking, not a good look for the school and their care for their students. The I'm going to ring the principal and see what he's got to say about all this.

Regards,
Dianne

[Floweryfields]

I think its better if they get detention and Quit Smoking assistance

.... and i'm sure there is students sneaking off at lunchtime to have sex too, is the senior campus going to give these guys a room to stop them going off campus? I mean, if they are over 16, they are legally allowed to have sex....

Nice.

[feeb]

That is rediculous what sort of message are they sending to the younger kids.

Staff and patients can not smoke in a hospital ground so why should teenagers be allowed to smoke at school!

[MrsBexie]

We were allowed to smoke at our college (year 11 n 12 in Canberra is called college and is a seperate school to 7-10) in a designated area...
I love it cause I was a smoker, it was "technically" and legally out of school grounds but it was still very much a part of the school...

Looking back now, it's not the smartest idea...

[Glamourcide]

Okay, so, going against the grain here...
I've been a smoker since I was 15. My parents didn't find out until I was 17 - it's not difficult for a reasonably attractive young girl to sit outside the corner shop with a pocketful of spare change and find a sympathetic older bloke to go in and buy a packet of ciggies for you...
But anyway. I can see why most of you think this is a terrible idea, and while I DO agree with most of the sentiments shared so far, I also have to disagree from the perspective of a former smoking student.
In 'senior school', in QLD anyway, students are aged between 16 and 18 (or, are 15 when they start year 11 and have turned 17 when they finish year 12, some students are older and have already turned 18). In the grey area that is legal smoking age (if not tobacco purchasing age), most of us can agree that it IS legal for some of these older students to smoke if they so choose (where and how they obtain the tobacco is another matter, and completely unrelated imo. Ways and means, people... teens are stubborn!).
At the public high school I attended, it was a suspendable offense to be caught smoking on school grounds or in school uniform. But by the time I was in year 12 (aged 16/17), I was a 20-a-day smoker and making it to lunchtime without a cigarette was hard enough - let alone the school policy stating that I couldn't be seen ANYWHERE with a cigarette if wearing a uniform. Pfft. A big group of us (and not just senior school kids either, we had baby grade 8 kids, aged just 12, bringing their own cigarettes stolen from home) would sit on the oval near the fence every lunch break, smoking, other small groups would walk out the gate and up the street to hide behind parked cars or around the corner where no staff on playground duty would catch them... some seniors with their P's and a lunch pass would simply drive off with a car full of smoking kids and not come back until class resumed an hour later.

It got to the point where I was wearing patches under my school shirt and STILL sneaking off school grounds at lunch to have cigarettes, or risking getting caught in the toilets. One day I got so desperate for a cigarette, but couldn't leave school grounds as the exit was being patrolled and I had no lunch pass, that I simply cracked out a cigarette next to the library in full view of staff and students. Needless to say I got suspended - it was worth it, I was going NUTS from cravings.

On days that I could have my cigarette breaks, I actually got my work done in class. On days that I was prevented from having my cigarettes, my work suffered, I was irritable, disruptive and spent a lot of time trying deliberately to get myself suspended just so I could have a couple of days at home to do my schoolwork and unimpeded by school policy surrounding my personal habits.


So yeah. I guess I have to say I support the school permitting students who are smokers to get their fix so they can get on with the job and concentrate properly on their schoolwork. If they are providing access to Quit programs and educating students on the dangers of tobacco, alcohol and other drugs, then they are doing all they can and the choice to smoke or not is ultimately the student's - and while I can see where most of you are coming from, I can also speak from the perspective of a hopeless nicotine addict who simply CANNOT 'just quit' or 'just smoke at home, not at school' and actually get anything done.
The legality of smoking on school grounds is a sketchy one as well, considering (as far as I know) that schools also have a duty of care to students not to allow them to leave school grounds during school hours without appropriate measures like lunch passes being implemented. I imagine there is probably a similar system in place so that not all students can just take off to go smoke.

[emc2]

I think its better if they get detention and Quit Smoking assistance

.... and i'm sure there is students sneaking off at lunchtime to have sex too, is the senior campus going to give these guys a room to stop them going off campus? I mean, if they are over 16, they are legally allowed to have sex....

Yes you are quite right, there probably are students leaving school for other legal activities. It's not compulsory to attend school after 15 or 16 anyway. No, they wouldn't give them a room for other legal activities, it would depend on what the activities are.

[Floweryfields]

I can see where you are coming from Glamourcide - however I don't believe that schools should be seen to encourage addictions by providing permission to smoke. I think it's worrying on a number of levels - 1. Do parents have to give permission for their child (and until they leave year 12 I think they should be deemed a child regardless of if they are 18 or not) to be permitted to smoke at school? Are parents even aware that this is being allowed? 2. Is this going to encourage a pile of other kids to take up smoking for the novality - they are kids and they are, well, dumb at times (god knows I was). 3.Is it going to encourage kids who would have been just too scared to do it previously. 4. What message do we send when our tuckshops aren't allowed to sell 'unhealthy' foods yet we give kids permission to fill their lungs with all kinds of chemicals - seems pretty hypocritical.

For me - if this idea was adopted by schools, it should have to go hand in hand with compulsory quit programs - I mean, it's a proven fact that this stuff kills people - could you imagine the uproar if kids were being exposed to another harmful substance that could kill them while at school?

[Jellybean29]

Glamourcide: I think if a student was as addicted as you were and smoking 20+ a day, the school would have a duty of care to help you. This is obviously very dangerous for a young persons health. I think allowing this behaviour would be consciously allowing a student to self harm.


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[Cherished]

It's a shame those kids started smoking in the first place. The issue of kids starting to smoke should be addressed not how to facilitate their addiction after they have one. I feel the same about harder drugs, alcohol and gambling. If they do want to help the ones who smoke how about educating them, after all school is for education isn't it? Or how about putting them into a sporting class which isn't optional so they can feel their lung capacity improve or how hard it's become to actually 'breath' from smoking.

[Pretty Butterfly]

If I found out my kids school were allowing other kids to smoke around MY kids, when we dont allow it here at home, I would be murderous.

And I would also almost guarantee more kids would take it up, if it was "ok" to smoke. How bloody stupid.. we spend millions on "Quit" programs, and then give them free reign, whilst still only chidren, to go ahead and do it anyway.

Stupid. Why not just get some crack rooms, a sex cell and a bar at the same time, throw all common sence out the window and let them do as they please.....

Thank god my kids Catholic school will never implement this.

[Ozziehoffy]

Oh in so many ways this is a huge grey area! Just like the whole smoking age/buying tobacco age... what moron made that law up? If it's illegal to buy it until 18, it should be illegal to smoke it FULLSTOP.

Glamourcide, totally get where you're coming from... as an ex smoker myself (not at school) just some days trying to get through cravings at work was hard and it does make you cranky and it does affect your concentration. So, I get what you're saying.

As for the school providing an area... well I went to a private high school for grades 7 and 8 (NSW) and I know that some kids used to go out on the oval and over behind the auditorium to smoke... yeah they got busted sometimes, but hell they were there every day! So in part providing an area I guess gives teachers a view of the kids and they are able to keep an eye on them.... but it doesn't send a good message as far as smoking being bad etc etc... HOWEVER... ALL THESE KIDS KNOW THAT... they see it, hear it and are making decisions, be it bad or good ones.

Like I said, this is one huge grey area and in some ways the school is being responsible and in other ways it appears they are not. However, if they didn't provide the area then the argument still is the same... in some ways they're being responsible and in other ways not... no one is ever going to "win" this argument I don't think.

Oh and I think that if they are allowing it, then they do need to make sure that they are promoting and getting it out there and maybe even offering QUIT programs or something to help them to stop before they end up smoking 20 years then trying to stop, cos it's hard to stop!

[Pretty Butterfly]

This rule will help the smokers keep smoking, and encourage non-smokers to take it up..
... as if peer presure wasnt already enough, why would the parents of non smoking teens want it done in front of their kids at school all day, by there friends, (who hold all the power!) when it comes to teens?

I have just stopped my DD from having contact with a friend because she is secretly smoking (amoungst other stuff)... if she were allowed to do it at school, how many of her friends are going to try it, and then get hooked??

Thats NOT why I send my kids to school, to learn how to smoke!!

[Babyluv]

Are you serious??? This is disgraceful!!! By doing this they're telling the kids that smoking is ok and the younger kids seeing this will think it's ok! This school needs to be reported!

[diannescruffy]

Unfortunately DS15 started smoking last year and this year he will be starting at this senior campus. It was one of his mates that goes there that was bragging to him how cool it is because you are allowed to smoke . He knows all the health risks involved with smoking we have talked to him, he is not allowed to smoke at home and I have told him I don't want to see him smoking. During the school holidays he gave up, he was only smoking a couple a day as he was getting them from his friends so he has found it quite easy. Now I know it will be extremely hard for him when he moves across to the senior campus as pretty much all his Yr10 mates smoke and off course at recess and lunch he will be hanging around with them so it also makes it hard for the kids who are trying to do the right thing. I've made an appointment with the principal of the middle years campus as I have a good repore with her and see how we go.

Regards,
Dianne

[Glamourcide]

I think it's worrying on a number of levels - 1. Do parents have to give permission for their child (and until they leave year 12 I think they should be deemed a child regardless of if they are 18 or not) to be permitted to smoke at school? Are parents even aware that this is being allowed? 2. Is this going to encourage a pile of other kids to take up smoking for the novality - they are kids and they are, well, dumb at times (god knows I was). 3.Is it going to encourage kids who would have been just too scared to do it previously. 4. What message do we send when our tuckshops aren't allowed to sell 'unhealthy' foods yet we give kids permission to fill their lungs with all kinds of chemicals - seems pretty hypocritical.

I guess my view is that smoking DOES happen in, or just outside of, school grounds during school hours in nearly every high school in Australia. Whether the schools turn a blind eye to it or 'permit' it by giving students a designated area in which to smoke is the issue, don't get distracted by the thought of your kids 'being around smokers' - sorry, it's either already happened or is going to at some stage. This is life - learning and growing and being exposed to things so that you can make your own personal decisions.
To answer the questions you posed (and were reiterated by other posters):
1) All I can speak of with experience here, is my old school's lunch pass policy - I don't know about this particular school's policy but if they had any sense, they'd implement a similar policy for the smoking area.
Lunch passes had to be applied for by parents/guardians, and were approved on a case-by-case basis (in this scenario, a parent saying, 'My child is a pack-a-day smoker' would be approved, a child who by their parents' admission only smoked one or two a day would be denied a 'smoking pass' as they can control their habit and stick to smoking outside of school hours). Holders of lunch passes were (arguably) held to a higher standard of behaviour than their peers and the revoking of their lunch pass was often the first step made in a disciplinary action plan - I imagine I would do the same for the smoking pass if I were the principal. Lunch passes could be suspended for days, weeks, terms, or the student could be banned from holding one indefinitely. Serious behavioural offences involving term bans meant the student (and parents) had to re-apply at the beginning of the next school term and would go through the whole process again - inconvenient for all concerned but it ensured parents were completely informed of what was going on with their child's ability to leave school grounds during lunch hours, and they had to approve for an application to even be lodged with admin.
If I were in charge of the school and wanted to implement a smoking area for students, I'd do just that. Students who had been denied, or had not applied, for a smoking pass would not be allowed access to the area at any time and I feel that this is more sensible than 'turning a blind eye' and thereby allowing non-smoking students to be around smokers (as I said, smoking HAPPENS, usually on school grounds, but by 'ignoring' the problem it is only giving curious teens free access to cigarettes and risky behaviours through their peers).

2) As above, I think kids are definitely NOT immune to peer pressures in all schools, whether they have a designated smoking area or not. In fact I feel that a designated smoking area may discourage non-smoking students from 'experimenting' as a supervised area removes some of the taboos and 'mystery' surrounding smoking, and again, if implemented in a way that only allows 'deserving' students access to the area, and having them supervised by staff, it would be better than just ignoring the fact that smoking happens on school grounds as teachers would be able to head non-smokers off at the pass and they would be less likely to get their hands on cigarettes, let alone be able to smoke on school grounds.

3) It could... but ultimately, the responsibility lies with the smoker (or non-smoker), and them alone. Peers, parents, school programs and mentors can influence a person's behaviour, but the buck stops with the individual, and again, I don't think there's really that much of a difference between a student attending a school with a strict no-smoking policy, and one attending a school with a policy like this where students who are smokers, are permitted to smoke in a way that the school can control and supervise.

4) Okay, so speaking quite plainly here - I think the tuckshop rules are absolute crap. They're irrelevant. The message being sent here is that the government and hysterical, overbearing do-gooders like to be able to dictate to the rest of society what they can and cannot do with (or to) their own bodies and impose their personal moral compass onto the general population. Again, it comes back to the fact that school is a tiny version of the REAL WORLD - where people make poor choices, people are exposed to different actions and behaviours and have to learn to make decisions that are right FOR THEM without being forced into one group's idea of 'right' because there are no other options. Our school tuckshop was fracking awesome, now I imagine I'd rather skip meals entirely than be FORCED to 'make healthy choices'. There's no choice in that at all, so yes, while it may be considered hypocritical, I also believe that the forced removal of choice from students with tuckshop items was hypocritical in the first place

Glamourcide: I think if a student was as addicted as you were and smoking 20+ a day, the school would have a duty of care to help you. This is obviously very dangerous for a young persons health. I think allowing this behaviour would be consciously allowing a student to self harm.

I have to disagree with you on that one, BBB. Falling into the trap of nicotine addiction despite all the information that is available to teens, despite the discouragement and disapproval of my parents etc, is nobody's fault but my own. I chose it, I live with it. God knows schools are stretched to the limit as it is, trying to find enough funding and enough hours in the day to accommodate all this extra education that parents aren't providing or that kids simply aren't listening to at home... why is it the school's problem to fix a habit/addiction that I started out of school hours, on my own accord, in spite of the drug and alcohol education programs provided by the school? It's not. They have no duty of care to me whatsoever - by the same token they have no obligation to accommodate my smoking habit by allowing me to have a designated area in which to do it, but as long as students at this school are provided access to education programs and counselling options if they choose to seek help, then I just see no problem with it.
Basically, it's not an ideal situation and I *do* agree with all of you that it's a pretty messy situation. But speaking from my own experience - if it came down to A or B (A being that the school maintained a strict no-smoking policy and I got suspended so many times that I missed out on graduating and screwed my whole future over a few cigarettes, and B being permitted to smoke under supervision during school hours so that I could remain at school, get my work done and achieve the results I desired) for my own children, I'd be a reluctant supporter of option B. One may consider that a twisted perspective, but I see the other option (watching your child's future suffer just to prove a point) as like cutting off one's nose to spite their face

[toomanyshoes]

Well...schools grounds are smoke free by law. Even the teachers have to leave the grounds to smoke. They're also promoting underage smoking. I worked in a place that sold cigarettes, if I was caught selling them to someone under age OR to someone who was going to provide them to someone under age I would be fined. I think it's totally and utterly WRONG. It should be reported.

I agree, wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!

[Rivlas]

A local school tried this with it's seniors and the name the school ended up with was not good. A new principal came in, introduced uniforms and banned smoking. The turn around was incredible the school now has a good name.

It is a gov't place so it's against the law to smoke on the property.

[*Efjay*]

ARE YOU SERIOUS! Far out, I was disgusted when I learnt the high school which would have been my boys high school if we had not moved state sold coffee to the kids. Coffee!
But allowing students to smoke! I am just gobsmacked!!!

Oh & just to be a bit narky

it's not difficult for a reasonably attractive young girl to sit outside the corner shop with a pocketful of spare change and find a sympathetic older bloke to go in and buy a packet of ciggies for you...

Yep that sounds real attractive.

Im sure you can look back on it & see the same.. But really Teenagers don't look cool or attractive hanging around outside shops begging for older people to buy them smokes. they look pathetic.