Teacher forcefully removing student from class

[AliBaby]

I have a link to what a teacher can an cant do, but it may differ with the different department of education across different states.

I'll just go and find it.

[Ryatha]

Hey Maz - as a teacher who has a number of SNC in my classes, one of the only reasons that I can think of for her to 'remove' him like that is if one of the other kids were about to react and she was being proactive. BUT in saying that, a teacher who has had to step out of boundaries by touching a child normally speaks to or emails a superior immediately to let them know in case any problems arise from it. I hope that things can get sorted out quickly for W and things settle down for you xxxx

[AliBaby]

Okay this is a direct quote from Allegations against Employees in the Area of Child Protection that all NSW schools under the department of education have to follow.

You can read the entire policy at https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/detresour...GSPuJAJdZT.pdf

From page 13....

Assault against a child or young person
Using common law principles, assault in this context must include all three of the following elements:
• it is an act committed on or towards a child or young person,
and
• it involves either the application of force to a child or young person or an act that causes a child or young person to think that immediate force will be used upon them,
and
• it is either hostile or reckless (a reckless act is one where the person foresees the likelihood of inflicting injury or fear, and ignores the risk).

Actual physical harm does not have to occur in order for an assault to have taken place, i.e. the child or young person does not have to be injured.

Physical contact which is an inevitable part of everyday life does not amount to assault. For example, there may be occasions where it is appropriate to intervene in order to protect students. Reasonable action, in these circumstances, would not be deemed to be assault.

And from page 14....

Note. Examples of conduct that would not constitute reportable conduct include touching a child in order to attract a child’s attention, to guide a child or to comfort a distressed child; a school teacher raising their voice in order to attract attention or to restore order in the classroom; and conduct that is established to be accidental.

I hope the above gives some insight into what is regarded as acceptable and not.

As a teacher, I have had to had physical contact with a student at one time or another however it has always been in a way to make the child feel safe, eg. a kindy child was extremely upset after losing all their friends at lunchtime and I gave her a cuddle as she was just heartbroken and it made her feel better. On a not so nice occasion, in fact a darn right scary situation, I had to chase a child with down syndrome from my class and absolutely pull her back as she had one leg and most of her body over the fence and was going to run onto the road and get hit by a car. I grabbed onto her and pulled her back and I never expected to have to have that sort of physical contact with a child. It was scary but I did what I would want anyone to do if my child was about to run on the road as I had to look out for her safety.

In W's case, I think she acted inappropriately if the situation had not escellated to that of needing required force. It is her duty to provide a safe environment for each chil in her class. I feel that she has not done that in this case so it is good the Principal is going to pull her up on this. You definitely did the right hting by going to him.

[trishalishous]

hang on she had a carer there too?
now I can understand her physically removing him if he were a threat to other students but if there's TWO adults there surely there's no way that the situation could have escalated to that point?
and if anyone were being physical, surely that would be the carers call?
poor little man being scared to go back to class

[Beach Mama]

Agreed with Ali that there are times with some kids, SN or not, where there is no choice, particularly if they are going to injure themselves, the teacher or other kids. First option is to remove the grade but there are always exceptions. In this case though I agree it seems extremely over the top and the fact that she showed you the smoke, rather than just telling you in general that she needed to discuss an incident was terrible and if she had the aide there as well, you have to question why things went the way they did.

[KitFaerie]

I don't know about mainstream classrooms, but DH is a special needs teacher and he would LOVE to have a student where the biggest problem in a day was a fake smoke The teacher could have made it a learning activity ''Awesome smoke, but smoking isn't very healthy - what else can you make?'' or even got into a discussion about smoking and cancer risks and turned it into an internet activity. W sounds really creative and I would have been upset if someone took something off me that I'd made as well. His reaction was appropriate to the situation, hers - not so much. I can't believe the teacher turned a non-issue into an issue.

In terms of the physical side, DH can only remove children if they're about to seriously injure themselves or someone else. Generally, you just get the other kids out of the class and let the kid having the meltdown go for it in the empty classroom with the aide. No need for force.

[maz]

I spoke to the carer today....she didnt even know what had gone on....and when I told her that she came to the car and only told me about the smoke the she rolle dher eyes and said OMG I thought she was coming to tell you about the melt down.

I confronted the teacher in a calm tone, evil eyes were given mind you and asked why she hadnt told me at the car....she off loaded some crap and then I said why didnt you let him be as i have told carers in the past when he loses it that is what is to be done and she said he was kicking and hitting out at them. she also said that she took him lightly by the wrists to guide him out...*cough* bullpoo *cough*
I loudly said come on boys were going home now and left her standing there.
She quiet obviously got into trouble because we went and got W bag from class and was all la de da in my face...nope not happy and it doesnt cut it.
Ive told J man and he is fuming.....and PSG meeting is next wednesday.....hahahahhaa they thought I was bad...they aint seen nothing of the J man yet

[meow]

Good on you Maz. Your son has beautiful parents going to fight forhimbecause he damn well deserves it. The more I read of this the more angry I feel. What is up with this teacher??

To handle any child in that way (right from the start even, making a huge issue out of a small issue) is poor teaching and disrepectful... to handle a child on the spectrum like that is just outrageous. Maybe she needs a break or something because it doesn't sound like she's coping well at the moment.

[LionsandBears]

It's one thing to say, I don't know how to cope with this, I haven't been trained or I can't handle this today. It's another thing to lie and cover her butt. It shouldn't be her against the children/parents. If she doesn't know how to handle a child having a meltdown then she needs to ask for help/training.

btw - why is the fake smoke significant? I know I'm ancient, but I'm pretty sure when I was 8 I used to pretend I was smoking HB pencils. I don't remember anyone batting an eyelid. Was it because it was in class and he was supposed to be doing something else? In which case telling him to put it down and get on with the task wouldn't have been too hard? Or was it because smoking is evil and playing pretend is just an insidious start down the dangerous road to smokes and drugs and all other kinds of anti-social behaviour? Isn't pretend allowed anymore?

I honestly don't know these things, so that's why I'm asking.

[maz]

Meow - what annoys me even more is that she has a son on the spectrum herself.....hmmm im now wondering if perhaps thats the problem...she's realyl dealing with 'it' 24/7.. something to write down for J man to ask on wednesday

Tash - in all honesty I was a little happy becuase all he focesses on normally is movie and mario stuff..and yes I did the same tihng, I think we all did. I totally understand taht she is a teacher and has rules but she cant use me in those rules and there was no reason for her to do what she did especially knowing he's been off tap for the last few weeks.
I'll be letting it be known im not happy with not going to the class anymore AND making sure she doesnt get a christmas pressy from him! She can watch when the carer gets a big box of cadbury roses!