Child care and toilet training.

[Doing my best]

Before I start, I know that I have to speak to the director and all centres are different, but just want an idea from those who work in child care, or have some advice..

My DD has just turned 2 an 1/2. She has no real interest in going to the toilet. She knows the concept, she will wear knickers, but just refuses to do anything in the toilet (or a potty). I am not at all worried about it at this age.. But, they moved her from the juniors room to pre-kindy, and have been trying to get her to use the toilet (cause there is no change room attached to this room). I was happy to supply knickers and changes of clothes as long as she wasn't getting stressed over it.

Last week, she was in tears when I tried to get her to go to her room leader. When I asked her why, she said she didn't want to do wees in the toilet, she wanted to do them in her nappy. The next day it started before we left home, so it makes me think they are forcing her, or maybe she has realised how to tell me white lies already .

Does she really have to be toilet trained to be in the pre-kindy room? Are pull ups likely to help?

I am happy for them to try, even though I don't think she is ready and am not doing it at home, till she shows more interest. But I am not going to accept her being stressed over it.

[Loula]

When i first opened this thread i was thinking i was going to read how you want to TT but CC doesnt think she is ready lol

I tell my parents try not to stress about TT it WILL happen, seems to me that she has had a bad experiance maybe?

Taking in knickers and hoping for the best will not help either, accident create unwanted attention and can be very upsetting for the child.

It really is all about how the CC deal with TT what is their policy (you are able to see this and get a copy) you need to find out from the staff what their expectations are with regards to children and going to the toilet, what their routine is and what they offer for children learningthis new skill, do they (and i hope they do) offer and individual approach? how long to they allow for TT, how do they respond to accidents.

Where i work now is FANTASTIC, so loveing, but after 12 years in teh field i have seen some horror staff, for example, telling children off for having an accident!!!WTF???? hate this, also telling parents to keep going with the training when clearly the child is destressed with the reaction they are recieving, this will only make the process longer.

I say two weeks is enough time for TT, if you are still pushing after that then really you did not assess the childs situation and was not ready.

I have begged parents in teh past to start TT as i could see their child was ready but they were not...................................two days later fully TT child, they were amazed.

Remember TT is totally different in CC than at home, one child may be ready in one environment but not in the other (does that make sense???)

Def talk with the staff ask them what their feeling are, and no way should a child be expected to be TT before pre kindy! Gosh some KIndergardens need to lighten up and pull their heads in, all children develop at different rates one of the first things being taught to you when you study early education, and with the framework being about being, belonging, and becoming thats what we are trying to achieve a holistic approach, not a dictatship!

there is my beef! oops

[Floweryfields]

Our 2 1/2year room has both facilites for nappies and toilets - so it is not a requirement to be toilet trained before moving in there. However our next age group doesn't have the facilities, so they do have to be trained before moving up to that room. It is a legal thing for hygeine reasons - and supervision reasons - as a staff member would have to leave the room to change a nappy in another area. I can't understand why they would have moved a child up before they were trained knowing the facilites aren't available.
It can be a difficult thing - I too thought you were going to say the opposite - we often have parents who expect us to do all the training, yet don't follow through at home at all - makes things very difficult.
We try to make toileting a positive experience, otherwise what has happened with your DD is the result.

[Loula]

And another not i always discuss with parents TT before doing it at CC, although some children are so willing, you often see them sitting on the loo with their pants down with a nappy on .....again this is discussed that we are allowing this to happen but we do/ or do not feel they are ready blah blah

some parents are amazed that their child does that as they show no signs at home, but its just about letting then get the feal for the toilet and the social development of being with the other children and following them, but no pressure!!

[Loula]

Our 2 1/2year room has both facilites for nappies and toilets - so it is not a requirement to be toilet trained before moving in there. However our next age group doesn't have the facilities, so they do have to be trained before moving up to that room. It is a legal thing for hygeine reasons - and supervision reasons - as a staff member would have to leave the room to change a nappy in another area. I can't understand why they would have moved a child up before they were trained knowing the facilites aren't available.
It can be a difficult thing - I too thought you were going to say the opposite - we often have parents who expect us to do all the training, yet don't follow through at home at all - makes things very difficult.
We try to make toileting a positive experience, otherwise what has happened with your DD is the result.

It is illigal to discriminate against a child. this can be taken further, this is my gripe against some kinders, i understand that their are OHS issues around this but come on...........to me it is just bloody lazy and unfair.we can find many excuses for not doing stuff

[Floweryfields]

It is illigal to discriminate against a child. this can be taken further, this is my gripe against some kinders, i understand that their are OHS issues around this but come on...........to me it is just bloody lazy and unfair.we can find many excuses for not doing stuff

Are you aware of the trouble that we get into from the dept. if we have children in nappies in rooms without the facilities? It has nothing to do with being bloody lazy or unfair in my centre thank you and I don't appreciate that type of comment.

[Loula]

sorry if i touched a nerve, please dont take it personnel, im not staying its a staffing issue, it the providers, as a community we should be providing the facilities to include all children that is what i am getting at! I know there are OHS issues with this at services where the facilities are not available, and so not possibel but a parent could and has every right to take this on. how hard is it to put in a small area with steps, space permitted. IMO it would take away stress and pressure put on families and children grants are available from teh dept for funding this upgrade. and again this is not common as many kinders will say that it is a preference that the child be TT, and parents go with that.

Never had trouble from the Dept for having children in rooms with out nappy facilities, just need to show how you manange this! we are an inclusive pratice for many children with additional needs

[Loula]

I m just saying this puts a lot of stress on families and then you get parents sending children in that are not TT with knickers and you spend forever changing them, then you have staffing issues. Ratios are about productive supervoision and not number to number, its about how staff are uterlised. and how you show this if there is an insident

[Floweryfields]

Right, so productive supervision still requires you to be in the room -where there are no change facilities, one staff member would have to go with the child to another room to change them - there was a thread a while back about biting - the poster was upset that a child was bitten while one staff was in the room and another had left the room for something. Our room that doesn't allow nappies (which is 4-5 year olds), can have 24 - so say there were even 4 non trained children in this group - one staff member would be left with 23 children each time the assistant took a child to be changed. Not safe.

[Loula]

Your not getting what i am saying and im not going to continue to argue with you on this. I have posted my opnion and you are intilted to yours no slagging

[Hansie]

I have just gone through this with my day-care my DS will be 2.5 next month, but he was moved up to the next room at the beginning of the yr. There is a group that my DS has been part of since he has been there and a couple of them were already TT'd and as long as DS went and sat on the potty they were happy to let him stay in the room. He then started to refuse to sit on the potty and he started only going up to the next room and certain times to be with his friends. He was miserable I could see the change in him straight away would cry when I dropped him off and every time I went I would say "what has changed" and I got the same answer "nothing kids are all friends playing nicely but just TTing". I am happy to say I was definately not ready for TTing myself expecting number 2, house fully carpeted and I firmly believed that he didn't know that he needed the toilet, but seeing him so miserable and the fact that day-care were pushing him whilst there I decided I had to try for him. We got rid of the nappy during the day straight into big boy undies and for long trips out we did put a nappy back on. DS could hold for over 4hrs with constant sits on the potty and when you put his nappy on to go out he would flood it. This was a big eye opener as I realised that he did in deed know that he needed to go as it was instantly that he had the nappy on. We did this constantly for 2 weeks (sent him to day-care in big boy pants and lots of changes of clothes inc a wet bag to put them in) and then that weekend we went to a friends house no nappy (they have a DS the same age so going through the same floorboards as well lol) and DS told us both times that he needed to go and sat on the toilet to do wees and poos. From then on he was just in big boy pants. He wears pull ups at night but is 85-90% dry most mornings.

Sorry it is so long but I just wanted to show/say that I understand how you feel and where you are at. I just want to put out there that maybe your DD is getting more upset because at day-care they are asking her to do the whole TT but at home she doesn't have to..she maybe getting confused. I now see that this was what DS was partly feeling as well as sepeartion from his friends and he took 4 weeks to get the hang fully of letting everyone know he needed to go to the toilet and even now at least once a week and DS only goes to day-care 3 times a week he comes home with a accident (poo) pair of pants because they haven't heard him or got to him in time.

:-)

Hansie x

[Doing my best]

Thank you all...

I just missed DD's carer on my way out this morning, but I spoke to the director later in the day. They were genuinely suprised that DD is telling me she doesn't want to do it, cause they have no hassles getting her to go, but she always has to be prompted. I can only assume that she had an accident one day, and it wasn't just cleaned up/shrugged off as we do at home. But I have told them that I think if she was ready, she would be a bit more proactive by now, and the director agreed.

Hansie - I will try your approach in a few weeks. It has been quite unsettled here the last few weeks cause I had to take on f/t work to pay some bills, but I am p/t now which gives a bit more stability at home to work on things.

Loula - thanks for your insight from a cc point of view.. I can only assume that she had a different person with her one day that wasn't as calm as her normal carers, and upset her.

Ausgirl - thanks for your views too.. I have no idea either why they moved her up before she was trained (and knowing that I wasn't actively trying to get her to go either).. Age wise, she could still be in the juniors room..

Will hopefully be able to post back again soon to say that she is over it, and going to the toilet..

[Hansie]

Good to hear you got chance to speak with the director. It is hard to interpretate what our LO are feeling or trying to tell us sometimes. Don't rush take it on when you feel you are both ready.

Hugs Hansie x